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Where are the Reparations

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you believe Afro americans deserve reparations

Yes they have been wronged over the years and they deserve more than an apology
18
8%
No cause it will serve no purpose or do no right
177
83%
Other(Plz explain)
19
9%
 
Total votes : 214

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Sdaeriji
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Posts: 7566
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Sdaeriji » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:02 pm

Kashindahar wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:And yes, I'm "this ignorant" of US history, but I sincerely doubt that you have the foggiest notion of anything that happened in the last 150 years in my country, so I'll try not to hold it against you.


If your country is on the planet Earth, I probably know more about it than you.



Go nuts with that.


Should I hazard a guess based on your NS nation?


See above.


Ah, you were just flamebaiting. Got it.
Farnhamia wrote:What part of the four-letter word "Rules" are you having trouble with?
Farnhamia wrote:four-letter word "Rules"

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Kashindahar
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Posts: 1885
Founded: Sep 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Kashindahar » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:04 pm

Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:And yes, I'm "this ignorant" of US history, but I sincerely doubt that you have the foggiest notion of anything that happened in the last 150 years in my country, so I'll try not to hold it against you.


If your country is on the planet Earth, I probably know more about it than you.



Go nuts with that.


Should I hazard a guess based on your NS nation?


See above.


Ah, you were just flamebaiting. Got it.


And apparently you don't know more about my country than I do, because that's not an insult.
no matter how blunt your hammer, someone is still going to mistake it for a nail
Voracious Vendetta wrote:There is always some prick that comes along and ruins a thread before it goes anywhere

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Sdaeriji
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Posts: 7566
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Sdaeriji » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:08 pm

Kashindahar wrote:And apparently you don't know more about my country than I do, because that's not an insult.


Banana punctuate creative money crater zilch underwhelm.
Farnhamia wrote:What part of the four-letter word "Rules" are you having trouble with?
Farnhamia wrote:four-letter word "Rules"

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Hydesland
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Posts: 15021
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:10 pm

Kashindahar wrote:See above.


Kazakhstan?

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Kashindahar
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Posts: 1885
Founded: Sep 19, 2009
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Postby Kashindahar » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:11 pm

Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:And apparently you don't know more about my country than I do, because that's not an insult.


Banana punctuate creative money crater zilch underwhelm.


I know more about your nation than you do

Sure

Shall I guess which nation you belong to?

Sure

ahahahaha you are flamebaiting

Well, I guess that this is the logical conclusion.
no matter how blunt your hammer, someone is still going to mistake it for a nail
Voracious Vendetta wrote:There is always some prick that comes along and ruins a thread before it goes anywhere

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Kashindahar
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Founded: Sep 19, 2009
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Postby Kashindahar » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:12 pm

Hydesland wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:See above.


Kazakhstan?


Not quite, but it would certainly be an interesting history.
no matter how blunt your hammer, someone is still going to mistake it for a nail
Voracious Vendetta wrote:There is always some prick that comes along and ruins a thread before it goes anywhere

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Hydesland
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Posts: 15021
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:13 pm

Kashindahar wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:See above.


Kazakhstan?


Not quite, but it would certainly be an interesting history.


Uzbekistan?

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Sdaeriji
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Posts: 7566
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Sdaeriji » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:15 pm

Kashindahar wrote:Well, I guess that this is the logical conclusion.


Rather than being antagonistic, you could volunteer your nation. If you had any interest in actually finding out if people here knew of your nation's history, instead of wielding that presumed ignorance as a blunt weapon, you would volunteer your nation. Acting pig headed about it ("Go nuts" "see above") doesn't fill me with confidence that you're going to be honest about it.

At any rate, India.
Farnhamia wrote:What part of the four-letter word "Rules" are you having trouble with?
Farnhamia wrote:four-letter word "Rules"

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Kashindahar
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Posts: 1885
Founded: Sep 19, 2009
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Postby Kashindahar » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Sdaeriji wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:Well, I guess that this is the logical conclusion.


Rather than being antagonistic, you could volunteer your nation. If you had any interest in actually finding out if people here knew of your nation's history


Well, there goes that plan.

And wrong on both.
no matter how blunt your hammer, someone is still going to mistake it for a nail
Voracious Vendetta wrote:There is always some prick that comes along and ruins a thread before it goes anywhere

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Daemonicai
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Founded: Feb 26, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Daemonicai » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:17 pm

I'm British, what reparations do I get?

Maybe I can squeeze some money from France for the Norman Invasion.
Name- The Ecumene
Head of Government- Consul Sargon Laskarys Panthaera
Homeworld- Drakonis
Demonym- Drakon/Drakonai
Government- Quasi-Democratic Feudal/Federal Aristocracy[/spoiler]

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Hydesland
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Posts: 15021
Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Kashindahar wrote:And wrong on both.


Give us a clue.

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Ordo Mallus
Diplomat
 
Posts: 641
Founded: Aug 31, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ordo Mallus » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:20 pm

he's either a brit or american (tau firewarrior thingy in flag, Guardsmen > Tau :P)
Last edited by Ordo Mallus on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A small mind is easily filled with faith.

“It is only the dead who have seen the end of war” Plato

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Sitspot
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Posts: 638
Founded: Sep 03, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Sitspot » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:22 pm

Kyrgyzstan
Ghost of Ayn Rand wrote: Ivy League guys stick together like the pages in Glenn Beck's copy of Atlas Shrugged.

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Neesika
Minister
 
Posts: 2569
Founded: Aug 26, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Neesika » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:25 pm

Daemonicai wrote:I'm British, what reparations do I get?

Maybe I can squeeze some money from France for the Norman Invasion.

Ah. More people who aren't paying attention.

Please see:

Free Soviets wrote:
Jocabia wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.
"Look, Ann Coulter explained it one time. Jesus came to perfect the Jews so they could become Christians and be saved. If they stay Jews, they are rejecting God and the opportunity to eat bacon dipped in mayo and served on the tits of a woman who doesn't complain at restaruants." - RepentNowOrPayLater

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Daemonicai
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Posts: 1757
Founded: Feb 26, 2009
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Postby Daemonicai » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:29 pm

Neesika wrote:
Daemonicai wrote:I'm British, what reparations do I get?

Maybe I can squeeze some money from France for the Norman Invasion.

Ah. More people who aren't paying attention.

Please see:

Free Soviets wrote:
Jocabia wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.


\not my fault that I don't have time to read all 28 pages in this thread.
Name- The Ecumene
Head of Government- Consul Sargon Laskarys Panthaera
Homeworld- Drakonis
Demonym- Drakon/Drakonai
Government- Quasi-Democratic Feudal/Federal Aristocracy[/spoiler]

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Neesika
Minister
 
Posts: 2569
Founded: Aug 26, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Neesika » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Daemonicai wrote:
\not my fault that I don't have time to read all 28 pages in this thread.

You'll note I provided you with the full quote rather than just speciously telling you to 'read the thread'. That's because I actually wanted to provide you with easy access to good information given by another poster already.

So. Now that you've seen it. Any thoughts?
"Look, Ann Coulter explained it one time. Jesus came to perfect the Jews so they could become Christians and be saved. If they stay Jews, they are rejecting God and the opportunity to eat bacon dipped in mayo and served on the tits of a woman who doesn't complain at restaruants." - RepentNowOrPayLater

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Sumamba Buwhan
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Posts: 448
Founded: Jan 12, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Sumamba Buwhan » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:45 pm

doesn't affirmative action and equal rights = reparations that make a true effort to right the wrongs of the past as well as present day imbalances?

scholarships based on financial need?

black history month?

NAACP?

Isn't the collection of these efforts along with others and continued fights against racism enough? What possible reparations could you expect and who should pay them? If it's the tax payer, guess what.... that's you too.

My family was never in the slave trade so it's not like I ever benefited from slavery, and my ancestors encountered a lot of bigotry in the past as well.

I personally grew up as a white minority in Los Angeles and was not only hated for my skin color but have been jumped by black and Mexican gang members because of it.
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Jocabia
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Posts: 5273
Founded: Mar 25, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Jocabia » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:08 pm

Kashindahar wrote:
The Norse Hordes wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:In what way does that also not apply to yourself?

Because youre showing in spades that you have no grasp of American history in this very thread.


That really has nothing to do with whether or not I have the ability to see if Jocabia knows anything about my country.

Read this slowly and see if that helps, in this thread you're talking ignorantly about American history, so I have evidence on which to draw conclusions about your ignorance. You have no evidence to draw upon in order to claim I'm ignorant about the history of your country.

This is further supported by the fact you won't give out the name of your country of residence because it will likely demonstrate that few people here are likely to demonstrate the level of ignorance about your country that you demonstrated about the US.
Sgt Toomey wrote:Come to think of it, it would make more sense to hate him for being black. At least its half true..
JJ Place wrote:Sure, the statistics are that a gun is more likely to harm a family member than a criminal

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Jocabia
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Founded: Mar 25, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Jocabia » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:14 pm

Kashindahar wrote:
Jocabia wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:And the rest doesn't show how the federal government is anything more than an accomplice, so, no, it didn't perpetrate the act of slavery, which was what I was objecting to in the first place.

Being an accomplice makes you guilty, my friend.


Of being an accomplice. Being an accomplice to murder doesn't mean that you perpetrated an act of murder.


If you conspire to commit murder and that murder is carried out, you are guilty of murder, friend. Again, if you don't know what you're talking about, stop speaking.

Kashindahar wrote:
Jocabia wrote:Meanwhile, you continue to ignore that the government DID own slaves, DID steal land, DID kill black people, and DID promote and engage in the[sic] systemic (now, see there is a different usage) racism.


Sure. But to extrapolate from this to all to say that the government perpetrated all slavery is simply false.


I didn't say the government perpetrated all slavery, so you can put that strawman back in your basket. I said they are culpable. The government of the US is guilty for its role in the slave trade and ownership in America along with the treatment of minorities throughout our history.

Kashindahar wrote:
Jocabia wrote:
Kashindahar wrote:And yes, I'm "this ignorant" of US history, but I sincerely doubt that you have the foggiest notion of anything that happened in the last 150 years in my country, so I'll try not to hold it against you.

I don't know what your country is, but I don't think you have the background to make any assumptions about my knowledge of your nation.


In what way does that also not apply to yourself?

Explained already.
Sgt Toomey wrote:Come to think of it, it would make more sense to hate him for being black. At least its half true..
JJ Place wrote:Sure, the statistics are that a gun is more likely to harm a family member than a criminal

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Free Soviets
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Posts: 11254
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Free Soviets » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:11 am

Neesika wrote:So. Now that you've seen it. Any thoughts?

apparently not

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Ordo Mallus
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Posts: 641
Founded: Aug 31, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ordo Mallus » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:20 am

Sumamba Buwhan wrote:I personally grew up as a white minority in Los Angeles and was not only hated for my skin color but have been jumped by black and Mexican gang members because of it.

now the shoe is on the other foot :l
A small mind is easily filled with faith.

“It is only the dead who have seen the end of war” Plato

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Sumamba Buwhan
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Founded: Jan 12, 2004
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Postby Sumamba Buwhan » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:16 am

Ordo Mallus wrote:
Sumamba Buwhan wrote:I personally grew up as a white minority in Los Angeles and was not only hated for my skin color but have been jumped by black and Mexican gang members because of it.

now the shoe is on the other foot :l


It quickly taught me that racism is stupid and that people from every ethnic group can be racist. I didn't blame entire groups of people for what a few individuals did and I don't expect an apology or payment from anybody for what I had to endure.
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Jocabia
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Founded: Mar 25, 2004
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Postby Jocabia » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 am

Sumamba Buwhan wrote:
Ordo Mallus wrote:
Sumamba Buwhan wrote:I personally grew up as a white minority in Los Angeles and was not only hated for my skin color but have been jumped by black and Mexican gang members because of it.

now the shoe is on the other foot :l


It quickly taught me that racism is stupid and that people from every ethnic group can be racist. I didn't blame entire groups of people for what a few individuals did and I don't expect an apology or payment from anybody for what I had to endure.

Would you if they stole your land or if LA passed laws to prevent you from having societal mobility?
Sgt Toomey wrote:Come to think of it, it would make more sense to hate him for being black. At least its half true..
JJ Place wrote:Sure, the statistics are that a gun is more likely to harm a family member than a criminal

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Sumamba Buwhan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 448
Founded: Jan 12, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Sumamba Buwhan » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:14 am

Jocabia wrote:
Sumamba Buwhan wrote:
Ordo Mallus wrote:
Sumamba Buwhan wrote:I personally grew up as a white minority in Los Angeles and was not only hated for my skin color but have been jumped by black and Mexican gang members because of it.

now the shoe is on the other foot :l


It quickly taught me that racism is stupid and that people from every ethnic group can be racist. I didn't blame entire groups of people for what a few individuals did and I don't expect an apology or payment from anybody for what I had to endure.

Would you if they stole your land or if LA passed laws to prevent you from having societal mobility?


Would I blame entire groups of people? No, I would blame the individuals who voted for those laws. If I lived through that but then those laws were repealed and the populace and government had policies in place that attempted to right those wrongs in ways that allowed for greater opportunities in education and the workforce, I certainly wouldn't see why my grandchildren who never had to endure that would deserve cash and land.

Edit: I just realized you said "stole my land". yes I would want my stolen land back.

If you are talking about Native Americans, I do think that they deserve way better than what they've gotten. We should definitely give them more land and share power with them in the State and Federal Govt.'s while we work to provide them with as many opportunities as we can.
Last edited by Sumamba Buwhan on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jocabia
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Founded: Mar 25, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Jocabia » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:20 am

Sumamba Buwhan wrote:Would I blame entire groups of people? No, I would blame the individuals who voted for those laws. If I lived through that but then those laws were repealed and the populace and government had policies in place that attempted to right those wrongs in ways that allowed for greater opportunities in education and the workforce, I certainly wouldn't see why my grandchildren who never had to endure that would deserve cash and land.

People requesting reparations are blaming a government that was complicit in those actions. That's not blaming entire groups of people. It's condemning the guilty.

Now, I'd agree that the government does have poliicies in place to try to right those wrongs and should. I think that affirmative action is the solution. However, it cannot be ignored that asking a guilty party to take civil damage for their wrongful actions that were physically and financially harmful is totally reasonable.

If your cash and land were stolen from your family then any surviving members of your family deserve to compensated.
Sgt Toomey wrote:Come to think of it, it would make more sense to hate him for being black. At least its half true..
JJ Place wrote:Sure, the statistics are that a gun is more likely to harm a family member than a criminal

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