Where are the Reparations

[Iceland-Thule]

Blacks allready have reparations.
It's called welfare

Doesn't count since non-blacks can get it as well.

There used to be some white slaves to

[Little Jim P]

Blacks allready have reparations.
It's called welfare

Doesn't count since non-blacks can get it as well.

There used to be some white slaves to

Depending on how you look at it, there still are slaves (of all ethnic backgrounds). Most just don't (aren't allowed to) realize that they are slaves.

[The Atlantian islands]

I think blacks deserve reparations cause the japanese got there's after the United States government wronged them why can't we get ours african americans have been Wronged by them for 100+ years and are still wronged today by the government.

That's my opinion what's yours.

My opinion is that you're lucky to have ended up being born in America and not in Africa. For were you born in Africa, there would be a superb probability that you'd be in some way connected to war, extreme poverty, malnourishment, [otherwise] curable disease, lack of satisfactory sanitary living conditions, power outages, extreme corruption, lawlessness, and quite likely some combination of the aforementioned, let alone having not just the gift of having an internet connection to complain of such things, but the luxury of having the free time in which to do so.

So my opinion is, in all seriousness, slavery was hell for those living in it, in the USA and in the rest of the world where it also occured. But you can thank your lucky stars that it happend when looking at soley through an individual basis, that is, how it effects you and only you.

[Free Soviets]

i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.

[Eugene Zolo]

The government has apologized but do you think that's all we deserve were getting reparations and if that means we need to make majority of the government black then that's what will do.

The head of the Government is Black, guess what? He's a descendant of a Slave Holder...and the White members? Theyre the descendants of Slaves...

At this point, you'd be hard pressed to determine even who gets the reparations...

Got a point there but I'm talkin about using family lines to give reparations.

So...Youre going to dole out money based on an arbitrary ancestor more than a century ago?

Also, the sheer numbers of people who are the descendants of slaves in America would result in it becoming so diluted everyone gets about $0.50,

I'm not talking about now I'm talking about when we have the money hopefully will so get it. Why do the japanese get reparations and the former slave kids don't.

This is, because the Japanese people that got reparations were people who actually lived in the internment camps, if you can find me a former black slave who is still alive then perhaps he should receive reparations.

[Dyakovo]

im black and my ancestors fought on the side of the confederacy.

not your black ancestors

You certain about that?

[Bears Armed]

You know what hasn't been mentioned yet? Some of the Native American tribes, such as the 'Five Civilised Nations' in the south-east & later on in Oklahoma, also owned slaves of African origins: Wouldn't this mean that if "reparations" ever are paid to the African-Americans then either Native Americans in general or those particular tribes' current members in particular should also have to contribute a suitable share?

[Ordo Mallus]

they have reparations from past slave owners, asking for more reparations would be retarded. also this occured what, 200 years ago?

[Free Soviets]

they have reparations from past slave owners, asking for more reparations would be retarded. also this occured what, 200 years ago?

the fail to word ratio here is impressive

[Kashindahar]

You can demand reparations all you want, you aren't going to get them.

[Rockstar2012]

I think the money would be better spent towards proper gravesites for known slave burial areas instead of just throughing money around to people who may or may not use it wisely. Respect the dead!

[Free Soviets]

im black and my ancestors fought on the side of the confederacy.

not your black ancestors

You certain about that?

yes, absolutely. black confederate soldiers are almost entirely mythical, a lie invented by south-rise-ag'iners trying desperately to cover up the racist nature of their 'glorious' project. there were no black regiments raised by the CSA, and the few groups that actually existed were not funded or armed and did not see battle until they switched sides. what you actually had, as can be seen from looking at the documentation from the time and the non-neo-conferderate-propaganda scholarly work, were slaves who were brought along by their owners.

the prisoner exchange during the civil war broke down because the south refused to view captured black soldiers from the north as soldiers at all, and instead sent them to slavery. on the other hand, the north never caught any black confederate soldiers at all. odd, no?

the myth of the black confederate springs from the exact same well as the myth that the CSA wasn't founded to ensure the continued right of whites to own people.

[Dyakovo]

im black and my ancestors fought on the side of the confederacy.

not your black ancestors

You certain about that?

yes, absolutely.

try again

[Free Soviets]

im black and my ancestors fought on the side of the confederacy.

not your black ancestors

You certain about that?

yes, absolutely.

try again

no, you
http://www.bluffton.edu/~bergerd/essays/trclark.htm
http://www.davidwblight.com/levine.htm

if you check the facts, you'll note that one did not need to be a soldier to receive a southern pension. in fact, all of the blacks who got one had to register with the name of their master and where he served.

now, if you want to claim that there were significant numbers of slaves who were taken to war and made to help in the war effort in various ways, you'll get no argument from me. but they were not soldiers and they were not armed.

i mean, honestly, if there were 'tens of thousands of black southerners that fought for their homes just as hard as the white soldiers did', then why the fuck do we have all of these records of confederate officials flatly rejecting the idea of putting blacks in the military? we have their objections in fucking writing. we have the fucking laws that made arming blacks illegal. and we have their later arguments in favor of the necessity of the idea when the north was on their doorstep. and we have the results of that far too late to have any impact reversal in the fact that the only black regiments encountered were still being trained (and were not exactly well-liked by the white population for their trouble...)

[Neesika]

The amount pwnage being meted out by Free Soviets in this thread is shattering.

[Neesika]

i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.

Is anyone actually reading this? It's the same freaking thing I have to go through every time people start nattering on about how supposedly, aboriginal people are just nattering about stolen land rather than the ongoing, systemic abuse we face, coupled with the focus on recent, unaddressed injustices.

It's not about slavery, hundreds of years ago, people. Sorry.

[Jocabia]

i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.

Another tactic appears to be ignoring that this is about the direct action of the government in owning, oppressing and continuing to mistreat black people. It is not solely about slaves or slavery. It is about demanding the US government correct past and current wrongs by repairing those wrongs.

As I say, I don't believe reparations is the way to get it done. It is the reason I favor affirmative action. However, it's definitely the strategy of those who don't wish to deal with these wrongs, to simply ignore anyone who tries to explain the difference between their strawman and the actual argument.

[Jocabia]

i don't feel like paging through the whole thing, but i assume this has all been about slavery, to the exclusion of, say, the decades of theft and murder that happened after. i mean, it's rarely remarked on but clearly true that significant amounts of land were flat-out stolen from black farmers well into the middle of the 20th century - to say nothing of the tulsa-style events specifically engineered to destroy the black middle and upper classes by burning down their businesses, stealing their property, and outright killing them.

any look into the records (provided they weren't deliberately destroyed, of course) is going to wind up with people who are still living that by all rights are owed millions by various government bodies and insurance companies and identifiable individuals.

some background reading:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020318/brune
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/390.html
http://www.theauthenticvoice.org/Torn_F ... andII.html
http://clyburn.house.gov/statements/cc0 ... kland.html

Let me bump this post, since it's being lost in the ramblings.

NSG, like the world at large, does seem to find it hard to focus on, doesn't it?

of course, opponents to reparations have a proven strategy for dealing with such uncomfortable topics. delay long enough, and then you can claim that its too late to do anything about such regrettable events from the long-long-ago.

Is anyone actually reading this?

Not anyone who is actually making an argument against reparations, apparently.

[Free Soviets]

Is anyone actually reading this? It's the same freaking thing I have to go through every time people start nattering on about how supposedly, aboriginal people are just nattering about stolen land rather than the ongoing, systemic abuse we face, coupled with the focus on recent, unaddressed injustices.

It's not about slavery, hundreds of years ago, people. Sorry.

but things are so much nicer for us if we don't have to remember that grandpa took part in lynchings and my house is built on land that the previous owner literally stole from people he chased out of town for being successful while black.

if we ignore it long enough, maybe it will go away, and then nobody has to feel bad or do anything about it.

[Jocabia]

Is anyone actually reading this? It's the same freaking thing I have to go through every time people start nattering on about how supposedly, aboriginal people are just nattering about stolen land rather than the ongoing, systemic abuse we face, coupled with the focus on recent, unaddressed injustices.

It's not about slavery, hundreds of years ago, people. Sorry.

but things are so much nicer for us if we don't have to remember that grandpa took part in lynchings and my house is built on land that the previous owner literally stole from people he chased out of town for being successful while black.

if we ignore it long enough, maybe it will go away, and then nobody has to feel bad or do anything about it.

And then we can complain that all the poor minorities we don't give an equal shot at education, jobs, money and power are just resting on complaints about slavery without examining the systemic abuse that led to money and power and education and jobs being passed down through generations of white people and denied to generations of minorities. I like your way.

[Free Soviets]

And then we can complain that all the poor minorities we don't give an equal shot at education, jobs, money and power are just resting on complaints about slavery without examining the systemic abuse that led to money and power and education and jobs being passed down through generations of white people and denied to generations of minorities. I like your way.

indeed. everyone knows that those shifty and/or shiftless minorities are to blame for their own problems. they should just lift themselves up by their bootstraps like my great-grandpappy did.

[Jello Biafra]

Debt for borrowed money and purchased items, yes. This is different to me, than crimes, which stay with the people who committed them, not their successors who had nothing to do with it.

The institution of slavery was legal. It wasn't a crime. While it was a wrong perpetuated by the U.S. Federal government, (and many of the states) it was a legal one.

Everybody in the country. Where do you think this reparation money is going to come from? Taxes, obviously. Essentially, I would be fined for something I didn't do. Forced to pay restitution for a crime I didn't commit, to people who are only the descendants of the actual victims of the crime. My girlfriend's family came over around the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, and certainly had no part in slavery. Why should she have to pay for something that not only wasn't a crime she perpetrated, but one that wasn't perpetrated by her ancestors either? It's ridiculous.

For the same reason that anybody who is born after their government accrues a debt has to pay for it.

[Ascon]

Not just no, hell no.

600,000+ dead in the Civil War is all the "reparations" you're going to get.

I love you.

[Jello Biafra]

Questions:
1. What if you are the decendent of a Black Slave-owner....
2. What if you have both slaves owners and slaves in your ancestry?

Both of these questions focus on the wrong subject. Slave owners are not the issue.

They are valid, how else do you determine who deserves reparations and who pays for them... Otherwise your idea isn't reparations...

You determine who pays for them by looking at the perpetrator of the wrong - the Federal government.
Who determine who deserves them by looking at who has been harmed by the polices of the Federal government , either by the institution of slavery, or more to the point, the subsequent legal policies that harmed blacks.

[Kashindahar]

Questions:
1. What if you are the decendent of a Black Slave-owner....
2. What if you have both slaves owners and slaves in your ancestry?

Both of these questions focus on the wrong subject. Slave owners are not the issue.

They are valid, how else do you determine who deserves reparations and who pays for them... Otherwise your idea isn't reparations...

You determine who pays for them by looking at the perpetrator of the wrong - the Federal government.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the idea that blacks have been treated kind of shittily throughout history, but the government didn't force anyone to own slaves, and thus it wasn't the perpetrator.