No apologies needed

[Saint Jade IV]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people. A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

[Peisandros]

For the record, I chose "other solution" - sleeping pills work fine.

[NERVUN]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

Well, I won't beat your child in the face with a bat, but you'll have to excuse me if I still hate the little shit for not shutting the hell up during a 3 hour flight.

My son is two. Give him a DS and you will see a very expensive ball thrown around an airplane.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

Well, I won't beat your child in the face with a bat, but you'll have to excuse me if I still hate the little shit for not shutting the hell up during a 3 hour flight.

My son is two. Give him a DS and you will see a very expensive ball thrown around an airplane.

Minus the paddle and 2/3 of the string.

[NERVUN]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people. A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

On the contrary, there might be a number of reasons why removing the child is not an acceptable solution ranging from other children that need parental supervision, to no transportation, to social situations that preclude being unable to leave, etc.

The point of the matter is that a two-year-old child is still in the process of learning what is socially acceptable or not. Parents cannot wall themselves off from the world until the child is old enough to know the rules (And indeed, this is how we learn them. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me that you were reading at age two, I suspect that if I talked to your parents, they would have a number of stories about your earliest years and your behavior then). So in other words, you're going to have to put up with children. Think on the idea that someone once had to put up with YOU.

[NERVUN]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

Well, I won't beat your child in the face with a bat, but you'll have to excuse me if I still hate the little shit for not shutting the hell up during a 3 hour flight.

My son is two. Give him a DS and you will see a very expensive ball thrown around an airplane.

Minus the paddle and 2/3 of the string.

We do give him toys (And my wife and I try our best to travel by car as to avoid having to annoy people), but, again, he's two. He can only focus on something for so long. It's the nature of children.

[Grave_n_idle]

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people.

That is your observation. Just making sure you know it's subjective.

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

[Saint Jade IV]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people. A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

On the contrary, there might be a number of reasons why removing the child is not an acceptable solution ranging from other children that need parental supervision, to no transportation, to social situations that preclude being unable to leave, etc.

The point of the matter is that a two-year-old child is still in the process of learning what is socially acceptable or not. Parents cannot wall themselves off from the world until the child is old enough to know the rules (And indeed, this is how we learn them. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me that you were reading at age two, I suspect that if I talked to your parents, they would have a number of stories about your earliest years and your behavior then). So in other words, you're going to have to put up with children. Think on the idea that someone once had to put up with YOU.

My mother has a number of funny stories about me. However, most of her stories are not about me simply running around screaming my lungs out. Because I didn't do that, and if I did, I was removed. There were occasions where I and my mother sat outside a restaurant or movie theatre while my father finished his meal or movie, and vice versa. Granted, I was an only child, but I fail to see how leaving one parent in the room with the other children, while the other sits outside or in the car with the unruly one precludes parental supervision.

Furthermore, I am not referring to children who have parents obviously attempting to restrain their child's outburst. But I have been in situations where the parent simply ignores the children playing tiggy throughout the restaurant, because their meal might be disturbed.

[Skibereen]

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people.

That is your observation. Just making sure you know it's subjective.

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

Excellent observations. You would make a good and patient parent I imagine if you arent already.

[Saint Jade IV]

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people.

That is your observation. Just making sure you know it's subjective.

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

In the home, where other people are not being subjected to a screaming, tantrum throwing child, this kind of discipline is perfectly appropriate. In public, in situations where other people are being disturbed, it's not appropriate. What my mother did with me did not reward my behaviour. It simply prevented me from inflicting my inappropriate behaviour on other people who didn't need to be subjected to it. I didn't get attention in the car, my mother read a book and let me scream. But it was in the car, where noone else had to put up with it.

On flights, my parents made sure I had appropriate entertainment. They made sure that I was entertained by them, if I was bored with my toys and books. They were constantly complimented on my exemplary behaviour.

[NERVUN]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

Because each child has a different personality and for some children, asking them to stay quiet on a long flight is next to impossible.

Yes, parents do need to control children, but young children sometimes just cannot sit still quietly and there is nothing short of physical violence that can make them do so. Since I refuse to beat my son for your comfort, I'm going to have to ask for your understanding when he wants to talk about airplanes or trains or gets cranky because he doesn't understand yet why he cannot run on an airplane.

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people. A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

On the contrary, there might be a number of reasons why removing the child is not an acceptable solution ranging from other children that need parental supervision, to no transportation, to social situations that preclude being unable to leave, etc.

The point of the matter is that a two-year-old child is still in the process of learning what is socially acceptable or not. Parents cannot wall themselves off from the world until the child is old enough to know the rules (And indeed, this is how we learn them. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me that you were reading at age two, I suspect that if I talked to your parents, they would have a number of stories about your earliest years and your behavior then). So in other words, you're going to have to put up with children. Think on the idea that someone once had to put up with YOU.

My mother has a number of funny stories about me. However, most of her stories are not about me simply running around screaming my lungs out. Because I didn't do that, and if I did, I was removed. There were occasions where I and my mother sat outside a restaurant or movie theatre while my father finished his meal or movie, and vice versa. Granted, I was an only child, but I fail to see how leaving one parent in the room with the other children, while the other sits outside or in the car with the unruly one precludes parental supervision.

You assume that all families travel together or consist of both parents.

My mother was by herself and had two children. Hardly able to leave one in a theater to discipline the other outside.

Furthermore, I am not referring to children who have parents obviously attempting to restrain their child's outburst. But I have been in situations where the parent simply ignores the children playing tiggy throughout the restaurant, because their meal might be disturbed.

I already granted that there are parents who do a poor job of parenting, but at the same token, how are you able to pass judgment when you do not know that family and therefore do not know the circumstances?

[Skibereen]

I get really mad at the parents who don't control their children and feel that they have a right to make everyone else's flight/meal/movie/travel uncomfortable. As a child, my mother was frequently complimented on my behaviour, as I read my book quietly or slept from when we started til we stopped. At restaurants, if my behaviour was out of line, my mother or father took me home, or sat in the car with me until the meal was over and then took me home.

I don't see why it is so difficult to get children to behave on flights or in restaurants or on long distance travel. Naturally, there are circumstances where children are going to misbehave - illness and the like. But I find it difficult to believe that every single one of the unruly, bratty children that I have encountered falls into the category of serious illness or other problems. Most of the time, I find that the parents simply refuse to control their children.

How easily controlled are you? You are aware that Children are human beings who usually at the age we speak lack the cognitive ability(due to BIOLOGICAL factors) to comprehend basic social courtesies beyond their own comfort--like the feeble minded twits here. Simply because your Parents bent to your will doesnt mean 1. They were right or 2. That other people should kow-tow to their own children. Finally you have no Right to comfort.

[Skibereen]

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people.

That is your observation. Just making sure you know it's subjective.

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

In the home, where other people are not being subjected to a screaming, tantrum throwing child, this kind of discipline is perfectly appropriate. In public, in situations where other people are being disturbed, it's not appropriate. What my mother did with me did not reward my behaviour. It simply prevented me from inflicting my inappropriate behaviour on other people who didn't need to be subjected to it. I didn't get attention in the car, my mother read a book and let me scream. But it was in the car, where noone else had to put up with it.

On flights, my parents made sure I had appropriate entertainment. They made sure that I was entertained by them, if I was bored with my toys and books. They were constantly complimented on my exemplary behaviour.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

What you suggestion is exactly the same premise, same as loud, fat, ugly, talkative, annoying laugh, nose whistles when they breath, bad breath, etc etc.

You do want to be "subjected" then leave, you are not a hostage. Airplane...buy the headphones and shut the fuck up.

[Saint Jade IV]

You assume that all families travel together or consist of both parents.

My mother was by herself and had two children. Hardly able to leave one in a theater to discipline the other outside.

Then do as my aunt did, and take both home.

I already granted that there are parents who do a poor job of parenting, but at the same token, how are you able to pass judgment when you do not know that family and therefore do not know the circumstances?

Because there is no excuse for letting your children play tiggy or football in a crowded restaurant. There is no excuse for leaving them screaming in their seat, because your meal or movie is more important than giving others respect.

[SaintB]

In this case I totally agree with the airline, and they shouldn't have apologized. A poorly behaved child was disrupting the takeoff and interrupting important safety procedures and the mother was apparently doing nothing to stop him.

perhaps they should have gagged the child and slapped his mother.

[NERVUN]

--like the feeble minded twits here.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

Skibereen, Warned for Flamebaiting. Again, cool it down on the rhetoric or you're going to earn yourself another vacation.

[Skibereen]

--like the feeble minded twits here.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

Skibereen, Warned for Flamebaiting. Again, cool it down on the rhetoric or you're going to earn yourself another vacation.

Nice out of context theater I was illustrating a point read the whole post.

[NERVUN]

You assume that all families travel together or consist of both parents.

My mother was by herself and had two children. Hardly able to leave one in a theater to discipline the other outside.

Then do as my aunt did, and take both home.

Great, I'm sure the other child was very understanding about that.

I already granted that there are parents who do a poor job of parenting, but at the same token, how are you able to pass judgment when you do not know that family and therefore do not know the circumstances?

Because there is no excuse for letting your children play tiggy or football in a crowded restaurant. There is no excuse for leaving them screaming in their seat, because your meal or movie is more important than giving others respect.

Already pointed out a number where that might be the case.

[NERVUN]

--like the feeble minded twits here.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

Skibereen, Warned for Flamebaiting. Again, cool it down on the rhetoric or you're going to earn yourself another vacation.

Nice out of context theater I was illustrating a point read the whole post.

I did read the whole post, and I already cautioned you before in your use of language. Those were the points where you crossed the line.

[Derscon]

The children and parents I tend to be annoyed with are those who do not seem to care about the other people.

That is your observation. Just making sure you know it's subjective.

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

In the home, where other people are not being subjected to a screaming, tantrum throwing child, this kind of discipline is perfectly appropriate. In public, in situations where other people are being disturbed, it's not appropriate. What my mother did with me did not reward my behaviour. It simply prevented me from inflicting my inappropriate behaviour on other people who didn't need to be subjected to it. I didn't get attention in the car, my mother read a book and let me scream. But it was in the car, where noone else had to put up with it.

On flights, my parents made sure I had appropriate entertainment. They made sure that I was entertained by them, if I was bored with my toys and books. They were constantly complimented on my exemplary behaviour.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

What you suggestion is exactly the same premise, same as loud, fat, ugly, talkative, annoying laugh, nose whistles when they breath, bad breath, etc etc.

You do want to be "subjected" then leave, you are not a hostage. Airplane...buy the headphones and shut the fuck up.

I'd be fine with any of these measures taken on an airplane. Again, they are a private entity, and have a right to evict anyone they choose. If a child is disrupting and irritating the entire plane, then they're entitled to boot that fucker off, and more power to them.

Especially if it's midflight.

[Derscon]

--like the feeble minded twits here.

I find your physical appearance repugnant and nauseating why should my comfort be subjected to your presence? Stay home until you have lost the ugly.

Skibereen, Warned for Flamebaiting. Again, cool it down on the rhetoric or you're going to earn yourself another vacation.

Nice out of context theater I was illustrating a point read the whole post.

I did read the whole post, and I already cautioned you before in your use of language. Those were the points where you crossed the line.

Oh come on, Nerv, it was obvious that he wasn't actually insulting the guy.

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't see the "feeble-minded-twits" thing.

[Skibereen]

By the way rhetoric is effective persuasive speach used to to change opinions and convey ideas by applying logic and language, I see your point it doesnt belong here.

And I see so by insulting peoples children that isnt actionable behavior, I myself have "brats" but marking a point, and offering my opinion on the intellectual capacity of people here that is...intriguing.

My point stands, with no apologies needed as it were their face is offensive, and should be sent so as not to disrupt other people in public. Ban away.

[Czardas]

On the contrary, there might be a number of reasons why removing the child is not an acceptable solution ranging from other children that need parental supervision, to no transportation, to social situations that preclude being unable to leave, etc.

The point of the matter is that a two-year-old child is still in the process of learning what is socially acceptable or not. Parents cannot wall themselves off from the world until the child is old enough to know the rules (And indeed, this is how we learn them. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me that you were reading at age two, I suspect that if I talked to your parents, they would have a number of stories about your earliest years and your behavior then). So in other words, you're going to have to put up with children. Think on the idea that someone once had to put up with YOU.

I was reading at the age of eighteen months. And I was an extremely (apparently, almost creepily) quiet baby. Do you have a non-fallacious argument?

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

I also agree with this.

Depending on the child's personality, the best course of action may be simply to ignore its screaming until it realizes that it won't get anywhere -- this worked with my younger brother, for instance. However, with some children, the only way to get them to stop doing something you don't like will be threats, or actual physical violence. I was one of these children. I was usually quiet and well-behaved, but when I wanted to do something my parents didn't want me to do, the only real way to stop me would be with a "If you keep doing this, you won't get to use [favourite toy] for a week" -- and, if that didn't work, get rid of me. (I spent a few nights locked out of the house as a kid, as I recall.)

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

I suppose so. Hence my suggestion that for discipline, either ignore the child so that he won't get the attention he so desires, or remove him from the restaurant/cinema/etc and go back inside to keep doing whatever you were doing before he became disruptive. This last option does become somewhat impractical with airplanes, though, since the kid would need to get a ticket for the next flight to his destination, be attended by a crew member during the flight, et cetera, kind of defeating the point of isolation. I suppose for kids of that personality, smacking or threats would be the only viable alternative. Or just trying to avoid bringing them on airplanes unless it's necessary.

Also, when did this turn into a discussion on parenting?

[Jachrabt]

On the subject 'other solution' I would have said; 'Kill it'.

[Derscon]

On the contrary, there might be a number of reasons why removing the child is not an acceptable solution ranging from other children that need parental supervision, to no transportation, to social situations that preclude being unable to leave, etc.

The point of the matter is that a two-year-old child is still in the process of learning what is socially acceptable or not. Parents cannot wall themselves off from the world until the child is old enough to know the rules (And indeed, this is how we learn them. Unless you are seriously trying to tell me that you were reading at age two, I suspect that if I talked to your parents, they would have a number of stories about your earliest years and your behavior then). So in other words, you're going to have to put up with children. Think on the idea that someone once had to put up with YOU.

I was reading at the age of eighteen months. And I was an extremely (apparently, almost creepily) quiet baby. Do you have a non-fallacious argument?

A child crying because they are afraid, with a parent doing everything they can to soothe them is a very different situation to the child throwing a tantrum and screaming at the top of their lungs while the parents plug in their earphones and ignore the screaming child, but get upset at me when I politely ask them to quiet their child.

One of the most effective ways to curb a very bad attention-seeking behaviour, is to make a point of not rewarding it.

So - you make your point of explaining to the child that his or her bad attention-seeking behaviour will not gain attention - and then you remove the attention.

What the airline did - was reward the bad-attention-seeking behaviour, by granting it attention, and making the child's bad behaviour MORE powerful than the parent's capacity to ignore it.

The airline just made the behaviour worse. They undermined the parent, and reinforced the idea that bad behaviour gets results.

I also agree with this.

Depending on the child's personality, the best course of action may be simply to ignore its screaming until it realizes that it won't get anywhere -- this worked with my younger brother, for instance. However, with some children, the only way to get them to stop doing something you don't like will be threats, or actual physical violence. I was one of these children. I was usually quiet and well-behaved, but when I wanted to do something my parents didn't want me to do, the only real way to stop me would be with a "If you keep doing this, you won't get to use [favourite toy] for a week" -- and, if that didn't work, get rid of me. (I spent a few nights locked out of the house as a kid, as I recall.)

In restaurants, movie theatres and the like, there is no excuse. If the child is being unruly, remove them and return at another time.

So, again - the bad behaviour wins?

I suppose so. Hence my suggestion that for discipline, either ignore the child so that he won't get the attention he so desires, or remove him from the restaurant/cinema/etc and go back inside to keep doing whatever you were doing before he became disruptive. This last option does become somewhat impractical with airplanes, though, since the kid would need to get a ticket for the next flight to his destination, be attended by a crew member during the flight, et cetera, kind of defeating the point of isolation. I suppose for kids of that personality, smacking or threats would be the only viable alternative. Or just trying to avoid bringing them on airplanes unless it's necessary.

Also, when did this turn into a discussion on parenting?

I, for one, blame Ruffy.