7 Worst Things About Being Male

[Cannot think of a name]

I'm going to say at the outset that I do this to myself more than anything else, but I am absolutely shackled at times over concern that I'm coming off as 'coming on' to women I meet or know. Which is not to say I avoid women lest they think I'm coming on to them. But I'm constantly running this checklist in my head trying to think of ways to make them rest at ease that I'm not trying to come on to them or whatever when they might (probably) not be even thinking of that at all and my behavior then is just weirding everyone out.

Then I start worrying about that...and frankly nothing is weirder than someone actively trying to not be weird.

As I've grown older I just try to distract that part of my brain so it doesn't notice until it's too late and then I can just worry after the fact that I might have come off as coming on to them.

That is absolutely foreign to me. If I'm coming on to someone, it's painfully obvious. Otherwise, I'm just talking. I can't even imagine having that constant rubric running through your head. That'd be distracting, awkward, and probably painful.

It ain't great. I don't recommend it.

[Bottle]

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

For serious, and so you are absolutely clear here:

I don't think you knowingly are doing this to piss people off. I believe you when you say that you genuinely believe your behavior is well received by the people around you.

However, as other people have been explaining, there are also people who won't say anything even though it does bother them. So it's possible there are people who don't like what you are doing, but they just aren't saying anything, right?

I have not, and do no, claim that it is "universal" to hate being told to smile. All I am saying is that it is pretty common. I don't have statistics for you. I also do not have an edict for you. It's up to you what you will do with this information.

Here's a comparison for you:

My buddy has a fedora. He's had it for years. In recent years, at least where we live, the fedora has become a sort of trademark of douchebags. My friend is not a douchebag. He does not want to be mistaken for one. So, he has stopped wearing his fedora as much, because he doesn't like the chance that he will be mistaken for a douchebag.

Remember: He ISN'T a douchebag. He doesn't intend to identify himself as one when he wears the fedora. But, fair or not, the fact is that a non-trivial number of people will assume he's a douchebag if he wears it, because intent is not magic and his intent will not be the only thing that decides how he is received.

Same deal here. I believe you when you say that you do not intent to come across as a jerk. That does not, however, change that it will be RECEIVED as jerkish by a lot of other people.

You can choose to wear the damn fedora anyways, and fuck everyone. My buddy does that from time to time. Nobody's trying to take your hat away.

[EnragedMaldivians]

If 50% people of people find it annoying and 50% of people don't, and not all of them will express their gut reaction sincerely, I'd just see it as more sensible to stay on the safe side and not make unwarranted conversation with any of them using that phrase. Remember, these are strangers we are talking about.

The sensible thing would be for the man in the wheelchair to not talk to anyone at the bar. Engaging in conversations with strangers is something we beat out of children in their first six years of life.

Oh come on, we're talking about strangers who look like they're down and variants of a specific phrase being expressed at them. Why are you interpreting it as "DON'T SPEAK TO ANYONE 4Evaaaar!"?

Wouldn't it make more sense to talk to people who look like they're in a mood for socialising?

[Nailed to the Perch]

If 50% people of people find it annoying and 50% of people don't, and not all of them will express their gut reaction sincerely, I'd just see it as more sensible to stay on the safe side and not make unwarranted conversation with any of them using that phrase. Remember, these are strangers we are talking about.

The sensible thing would be for the man in the wheelchair to not talk to anyone at the bar. Engaging in conversations with strangers is something we beat out of children in their first six years of life.

That seems like a highly excessive reaction.

Seriously, dude, I don't think anyone here thinks you're some kind of monster. I'm certain I don't. All I've been saying, and all it seems like Bottle or EnragedMaldivians or CToaN has been saying, is that being told to smile by a stranger is something a lot of people really don't like, and so if your intent is to be kind to strangers, you should probably not open with that phrase, because a lot of people really won't like it. That's it. Seriously. Not "how dare you talk to people" or "you are not permitted to say this" or "you are a terrible person." Just, "hey, so you know, a lot of people don't like this, so now you know for future reference."

[The Truth and Light]

What does any of this have to do with the OP?

[The Blaatschapen]

Clearly the problem is that women be bitches who only use the nice guys, then go on to fuck, date and marry the assholes.

No, nobody should feel obligated, and I'd argue that in reality,there isn't any pressure to buy drinks for someone in order to talk to them. And really, buying drinks isn't going to significantly increase one's chances of getting in someone's pants unless the plan is to get them shitfaced. And that's creepy as fuck.



A beer is on average $14/pint (and not a proper one) out in a pub here, and a mixed drink is well over $20 (and with only one small, precicely measured shot in it). Seriously, I fly to Scotland to have a weekend of cheap drinking. I'd say "I win", but I'm reasonably sure that doesn't count as winning by any definition.

I'd love to fully agree with you, but the whole buying drinks thing is a cultural norm at this point. Hell, not to go into anecdotes but not THAT long ago I attempted to strike up a conversation with a woman at a local watering hole. She wasn't abrasive in her delivery but she duly informed me that in order to curry her attention it was a one drink minimum of her choice.

I'd walk away.

[The Merchant Republics]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

I'm going to say at the outset that I do this to myself more than anything else, but I am absolutely shackled at times over concern that I'm coming off as 'coming on' to women I meet or know. Which is not to say I avoid women lest they think I'm coming on to them. But I'm constantly running this checklist in my head trying to think of ways to make them rest at ease that I'm not trying to come on to them or whatever when they might (probably) not be even thinking of that at all and my behavior then is just weirding everyone out.

Then I start worrying about that...and frankly nothing is weirder than someone actively trying to not be weird.

As I've grown older I just try to distract that part of my brain so it doesn't notice until it's too late and then I can just worry after the fact that I might have come off as coming on to them.

The most absurd thing for me, is that I tend to do the same thing but only with women I actually am attracted to, the end result is I tend to be most flirtatious around people I have absolutely no interest in.

I think that I'm just naturally somewhat charming, but as soon as I'm actively monitoring it, I force myself to be respectful and distant.

It's not a good trait nor a particularly successful one, I can tell you that much.

[Neo Art]

Do you know why I say "give us a smile"? Because I'm fuckin' Irish and it is a figure of speech. If someone is so emotionally fragile as to break down at "give us a smile", the next thing out of my mouth is going to be, "you ok, lad/miss?" Because, again, I'm capable of having an adult conversation of someone without attempting to control them, or their thoughts, or their emotions. I could give a shit about how I feel about myself, what I'm doing is making a new acquaintance, sharing some of my life with someone else, and reaching out to people who may not be feeling quite so fucking grand.

Again, you are a paranoid rotter, and you really need to reassess how you approach issues if you do not want to spend your life tilting at imaginary windmills.

I missed this post at first. Please do not tell strangers "give us a smile." It may be an expression, but it's an obnoxious expression, and it will quite honestly make a lot of women think, "oh geez, not another douchebag." Since it doesn't sound like your aim is to come off as a douchebag, I really recommend cutting that phrase out of your vocabulary unless it's directed at someone you already know well.

I've never really understood why "but it's a figure of speech!" should be accepted as a justification for something. Frankly speaking, most "figures of speech" have pretty disgusting origins when you think about it.

Hell, even I will occassionally say "the machine took my quarter, I got gypped" without even really thinking about it. The thing is, I know what that means, and I try really hard not to say it. I don't use the fact that I have said it, and others have said it, to KEEP ON saying it.

[Cannot think of a name]

I'm going to say at the outset that I do this to myself more than anything else, but I am absolutely shackled at times over concern that I'm coming off as 'coming on' to women I meet or know. Which is not to say I avoid women lest they think I'm coming on to them. But I'm constantly running this checklist in my head trying to think of ways to make them rest at ease that I'm not trying to come on to them or whatever when they might (probably) not be even thinking of that at all and my behavior then is just weirding everyone out.

Then I start worrying about that...and frankly nothing is weirder than someone actively trying to not be weird.

As I've grown older I just try to distract that part of my brain so it doesn't notice until it's too late and then I can just worry after the fact that I might have come off as coming on to them.

The most absurd thing for me, is that I tend to do the same thing but only with women I actually am attracted to, the end result is I tend to be most flirtatious around people I have absolutely no interest in.

I think that I'm just naturally somewhat charming, but as soon as I'm actively monitoring it, I force myself to be respectful and distant.

It's not a good trait nor a particularly successful one, I can tell you that much.

Oh yeah, totally do that too. The worst thing I can actually do is actively try to charm a chick I'm interested in. Just a trainwreck, all bad. Not paying attention? Mr. Charming. Paying attention? Back away slowly from the weirdo.

Not a single girlfriend is one I've actively pursued. I've resolved that my subconscious is a better judge of potential mates than my conscious and just let it be, because while the ones up to this point haven't worked out, I haven't really regretted any of them.

[Neo Art]

If 50% people of people find it annoying and 50% of people don't, and not all of them will express their gut reaction sincerely, I'd just see it as more sensible to stay on the safe side and not make unwarranted conversation with any of them using that phrase. Remember, these are strangers we are talking about.

The sensible thing would be for the man in the wheelchair to not talk to anyone at the bar. Engaging in conversations with strangers is something we beat out of children in their first six years of life.

The sensible thing would be for the man, or really, any person, to listen to people who say "hey, the thing you say, despite you meaning well, might actually make people uncomfortable" and process that fact, like an adult, instead of passive aggressively whining at people who might have the nerve to suggest so.

[Bottle]

The sensible thing would be for the man in the wheelchair to not talk to anyone at the bar. Engaging in conversations with strangers is something we beat out of children in their first six years of life.

The sensible thing would be for the man, or really, any person, to listen to people who say "hey, the thing you say, despite you meaning well, might actually make people uncomfortable" and process that fact, like an adult, instead of passive aggressively whining at people who might have the nerve to suggest so.

In fairness, his aggression hasn't been remotely passive in this case.

[EnragedMaldivians]

You know I find this hilarious since in basically any other situation most of you would agree with one another.

Stop fucking manufacturing stupid fucking fights.

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

[Seperates]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

Actually, in my mind our society isn't individually "sexualized" enough. That is to say, we (in America) tend to suffer from stereotyped sexuality, where women are supposed to be either this or this, or guys are either supposed to be this or this, so that you can emulate whatever stereotype you want to try to get a pre-determined goal. What we need more of is the recognization that everybody is uniquely sexual (even those who are a-sexual), and everybody has different ways of expressing that sexuality. There is no reason why a 'nice guy' can't want to have sex with more than one woman. Just as it is equally likely that there are 'dooshbags' who are just looking for a meaningful relationship. We have to learn to recognize individual sexuality.

In essence, what I would like to see is even more empahisis on sexuality, so that people understand that it is a part of who they are, and a part of who other's are. And if you find your sexual tendencies to be physically harmful to others, you should seek professional help immediatly, just as you should do if you have psychological problems.

[Bottle]

You know I find this hilarious since in basically any other situation most of you would agree with one another.

Stop fucking manufacturing stupid fucking fights.

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why should that mean I refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

What do you think this is, some kind of discussion forum?

[The Steel Magnolia]

You know I find this hilarious since in basically any other situation most of you would agree with one another.

Stop fucking manufacturing stupid fucking fights.

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

[Neo Art]

The sensible thing would be for the man, or really, any person, to listen to people who say "hey, the thing you say, despite you meaning well, might actually make people uncomfortable" and process that fact, like an adult, instead of passive aggressively whining at people who might have the nerve to suggest so.

In fairness, his aggression hasn't been remotely passive in this case.

I mean, here's the thing. We're all adults here, presumably. We can, I imagine, deal with things, like an adult. If you came up to me and went "neo art, this thing you do is annoying people, perhaps you should stop" I have a plethora of possibilities available to me. I could go "gee, I never realized this, I should stop that!" I could go "well thank you for telling me, but I'll keep doing it just the same", or I could go "yes, I know, that's why I do it!" At which point perhaps twirling a moustach, or yelling out "U MAD BRO?" or something.

Those are all, at least, rational responses. Not necessarily nice, but rational, appropriate to the circumstances. Evaluating information and coming to a conclusion. You know what isn't?

"oh, well I guess I should just curl up in the corner and DIE THEN, HUH?"

[Ostroeuropa]

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

Because it's being discussed, gawd, stop having fun guys, you have to talk about what I want to talk about

[Seperates]

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

Boredom, insanity, wisdom, knowledge, inanity...

None or more of the above probebly.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

Because I disagree that it makes "people" uncomfortable. I agree that it can make "some people" uncomfortable, and that the way it is said, the tone and inflection, and my smooth Irish lilt, change it from "pedoriffic" to "well isn't that cute".

This is a point of contention, because many of the people here are accusing me of absolutist thinking, while engaging in absolutist thinking, and then I engage in absolutist satirical snark, and they think I'm totally serious, because unfortunately "tone" does not exist on the interwebs.

[The Emerald Dawn]

In fairness, his aggression hasn't been remotely passive in this case.

I mean, here's the thing. We're all adults here, presumably. We can, I imagine, deal with things, like an adult. If you came up to me and went "neo art, this thing you do is annoying people, perhaps you should stop" I have a plethora of possibilities available to me. I could go "gee, I never realized this, I should stop that!" I could go "well thank you for telling me, but I'll keep doing it just the same", or I could go "yes, I know, that's why I do it!" At which point perhaps twirling a moustach, or yelling out "U MAD BRO?" or something.

Those are all, at least, rational responses. Not necessarily nice, but rational, appropriate to the circumstances. Evaluating information and coming to a conclusion. You know what isn't?

"oh, well I guess I should just curl up in the corner and DIE THEN, HUH?"

Sure, if it didn't feel like an attack on my person, I'd engage in honest conversation with people. Since it came across as an attack from a couple posters, I disengaged with snark.

Something many of you are equally guilty of in other threads.

[The Emerald Dawn]

You know I find this hilarious since in basically any other situation most of you would agree with one another.

Stop fucking manufacturing stupid fucking fights.

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

I lovez you too. Because of you, I won the "I know someone from the country with the most commonly mispronounced name" contest at work yesterday.

[Neo Art]

I mean, here's the thing. We're all adults here, presumably. We can, I imagine, deal with things, like an adult. If you came up to me and went "neo art, this thing you do is annoying people, perhaps you should stop" I have a plethora of possibilities available to me. I could go "gee, I never realized this, I should stop that!" I could go "well thank you for telling me, but I'll keep doing it just the same", or I could go "yes, I know, that's why I do it!" At which point perhaps twirling a moustach, or yelling out "U MAD BRO?" or something.

Those are all, at least, rational responses. Not necessarily nice, but rational, appropriate to the circumstances. Evaluating information and coming to a conclusion. You know what isn't?

"oh, well I guess I should just curl up in the corner and DIE THEN, HUH?"

Sure, if it didn't feel like an attack on my person, I'd engage in honest conversation with people. Since it came across as an attack from a couple posters, I disengaged with snark.

Something many of you are equally guilty of in other threads.

The fact that you take "something you do is making people uncomfortable" as an attack on YOU, and not WHAT YOU DO, just proves my point.
.

[Northern Dominus]

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

Right, because "Give me a smile" is code word for "strip naked and bend over or I'll make you with my knife."

Is it not the traditional "Hey"? No, and some people might be a bit put off by that. But not everyone, so please don't fall into the logic trap of confirmation bias.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Huh? I'm not allowed to disagree with people I would otherwise agree with, or people I like?

I like Emerald Dawn a lot, as far as one can like an anonymous NSG user anyway, and agree with him on a lot of things. Why does that mean I should refrain from expressing disagreement when I disagree?

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

See, I like reading your posts as well but you're doing the hipster shtick now and you know it. And the notion that we shouldn't argue with people we would otherwise agree with which is what you implied, is very silly.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Because it's inane?

I mean I'm doing the same thing in another topic with New England and I'm doing it with you now, but I do just think it's a stupid argument that people are taking to the logical conclusion for the sake of fighting about it.

I think it's pretty clear that "give me a smile" makes people uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure ED realizes that. Why is this still a discussion?

See, I like reading your posts as well but you're doing the hipster shtick now and you know it. And the notion that we shouldn't argue with people we would otherwise agree with which is what you implied, is very silly.

I don't think I can fairly deny that.

Also didn't actually mean to imply that, that is quite silly.