7 Worst Things About Being Male

[EnragedMaldivians]

That doesn't really work, though, does it? I mean, then he's still going around doing something that many people find obnoxious, which is the whole reason this discussion started.

Not to mention that the reaction here does not bode well for the whole "apologize and back down" reaction. I mean, we're only talking in the ABSTRACT and look how heated this is.

My point is, if YOU find it obnoxious, ask that it not be done to YOU, and all will be well. I don't claim to speak for anybody, but he has said in his experience his little saying has not offended anyone. None of us can read these women's minds, they may have found it cute, they may not. Whatever. Her prerogative to deal with the situation how she likes. You are always free to react however you want to "smile".

And I think the tension has come from the fact that you're telling him one of his behaviors is obnoxious when he's never gotten feedback like that from someone in real-life, to whom he actually directed the behavior. You're practically sticking up for some woman you don't know who may not even need it.

I don't think I feel as strongly about it as Bottle, but then again, I've only very rarely been told to smile and I generally find it a little annoying. Hell I find it annoying when my dad tells me to smile when I'm in a bad mood.

And when it comes to strangers who look like they're upset, I honestly don't see the point in making unwarranted conversation with them to try and cheer them up. It seems more appropriate a thing to do between friends you regularly interact with and have a good understanding of how they'll read your motives.

[The Truth and Light]

They literally sound like the people who argue against saying "Oh my God" in public, on the grounds of it being disrespectful.

Just refute it in the same way. It is a malice-free expression, and most of the human race has better things to do than walk on eggshells so that someone's sensibilities don't get prodded.

That's not a good refutation of those people, though, because "malice" doesn't matter.

If you're dealing with people who are proposing to make it ILLEGAL for you to say things like "oh my god" or "smile for me baby," that's one thing. You combat them with the various arguments about freedom of speech, and the pragmatic arguments against trying to legislate manners.

If you're dealing with people who are stating that they DON'T LIKE IT when you say things like "oh my god" or "smile for me baby," then there's no refuting that because you don't command other people's feelings. Your choices are to either change your behavior or continue on knowing that you will be bothering people.

I, personally, opt to bother people in some cases. For instance, I know my being openly queer bums out homophobes. I accept that. I do not try to insist that I AM SO BEING NICE TO HOMOPHOBES when I am openly gay...I'm not, and I know it. I don't try to insist that they have to like my behavior, because they don't. They can dislike it, and I will own the fact that I am doing something I know is not popular with a lot of folks.

All that is happening here is that a dude is being told that one of his behaviors may not be received as nice, even if he intends it to be. Nobody is proposing that he be banned from speaking or any such thing. Nobody is setting forth legislation or getting a court order.

I just feel like a lot of this tension could have been avoided if you had spoken in the first person in regards to your feelings about "smile for me baby", rather than talking about many people. Then it would have seemed less finger-waggey and more like a respectful exchange of opinions. Not trying to police your expression, just offering a suggestion.

I do agree with you though, in part. If I'm not in a smiley mood there is possibly a better way to phrase a greeting.

[Bottle]

TED is absolutely entitled to keep telling people to smile for him if he wants to. I just think he should be aware that to a lot of people, that is a really annoying thing to say, and so if he doesn't want to come off as a really annoying person, he probably shouldn't say it.

This. This is literally all.

No pogrom. No "attack." No violent overthrow of the patriarchy and installation of oppressive gynocratic rule. Just the simple statement that a lot of people find it obnoxious if you command them to smile, so if you want to reduce your odds of being thought a jerk then you may want to avoid doing that. And if you don't care, then carry on! You will have lots of company!

[The Merchant Republics]

There's some truth to these.

Namely that men don't get a whole lot of psychological and emotional assistance from their peers they way women do. I developed a great support system for myself, but it's just not there for a lot of guys.

However I can't say as a young man, I have the vast majority of these problems. Most of which I think come from immaturity not manhood in general. I can handle my sex drive, frankly I definitely would refuse if a strange woman propositioned me. I may have a desire to earn money but it's not a dangerous notion.

I've not been in a fight since elementary school, and I'd barely call then fights. Tussles between schoolboys over petty insults. Only one of three I started.

Well, I mean, technically he's right in that he's talking about statistical tendencies more than 'every dude does all these things.' If this shit happens more to dudes, regardless of the reason, they are a thing.

It's just that he presented it in the most ass way possible and so instead of focusing on the larger issues that encapsulate them we're mocking the delivery.

Or, I think now working out the finer points of how the genders are allowed to interact. I kind of come in and out of this thread.

Agreed.

The delivery is bad and he generalizes these things as elements of the "male condition", it feels like something you'd see on Cracked, a complied list of things which are true but the expanded relationship between them all is more or less just to suit the author's taste.

He doesn't really bring anything new to the table, yeah there are downsides to being a man over a woman, but few of his listed things apply to every male and not just the stereotypical one he invents for the story.

[Nailed to the Perch]

If you can point to where I've said anything resembling any of that, I'd be curious to see it.

For something like the third or fourth time now, approaching a stranger to say, "Can I buy you a drink?", being told no, and promptly leaving, is perfectly fine. Approaching a stranger to say "Hey, give me a smile!" is obnoxious. If TED does not want to come off as obnoxious, I suggest he not tell strangers to smile for him, but rather just skip that and go straight to the actually being nice.

For fuck's sake, it's a figure of speech. It's not an imperative command to smile now. I've been called 'duck' by various people, and I don't think 'Why the hell are you comparing me to a tiny, barely sentient, dirty bird?'. I'm not a great fan of it, but I can tell by their tone that they mean well, and just accept the thanks.

Okay?

I'm not sure what point you want to make. Even if you fully convince me that being annoyed by being told to smile by a stranger is terribly irrational, I can't actually radio the giant Woman Hivemind to let them know that they must all magically stop finding that obnoxious forthwith. It does not MATTER if there are good reasons for finding it obnoxious. (I'd argue that there are, but that's not the point.) All I have been saying, consistently, is, "Many people find this phrase obnoxious. If you do not want to come off as obnoxious, you should probably not use this phrase."

[Bottle]

I just feel like a lot of this tension could have been avoided if you had spoken in the first person in regards to your feelings about "smile for me baby", rather than talking about many people.

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

[Cannot think of a name]

I just feel like a lot of this tension could have been avoided if you had spoken in the first person in regards to your feelings about "smile for me baby", rather than talking about many people.

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

I'm just going to ask because it's bugging me:

Is that a bat carrying a golf ball or a bat with a fluffy chest?

[The Emerald Dawn]

I just feel like a lot of this tension could have been avoided if you had spoken in the first person in regards to your feelings about "smile for me baby", rather than talking about many people.

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

[The Truth and Light]

I just feel like a lot of this tension could have been avoided if you had spoken in the first person in regards to your feelings about "smile for me baby", rather than talking about many people.

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

Ah, gotcha. Very well I guess.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Getting told to smile is pretty annoying, and it seems like you don't just have to be female to find it obnoxious.

[The Merchant Republics]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

Like I said, I will generally feign appreciation for their concern when someone tells me to smile when I'm in a bad mood. Friends and family I can understand why they might persist, but strangers, I'd honestly wish they wouldn't.

There is no way you could know if the positive reaction you are getting from a stranger for asking them to smile is sincere or not, and you can't really expect them to understand the intent behind an idiom that is apparently popularly used within Ireland. These are just considerations to keep in mind.

[Cannot think of a name]

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

My I suggest that we've established this:

A fair number of people, most of them vocal here (and including me) think being asked to smile by a stranger is fucking annoying.

There may (though I have never, ever heard of them but I'll contend they probably exist) be people who find this activity charming.

As someone who feels the urge to ask people to smile, you recognize this game of roulette and decide to take your chances. To people who find it charming, you will be charming. To people who find it fucking annoying, you will come off as fucking annoying. You have, as far as I can tell, accepted these possibilities.

Is anything else in contention?

[The Emerald Dawn]

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

Like I said, I will generally feign appreciation for their concern when someone tells me to smile when I'm in a bad mood. Friends and family I can understand why they might persist, but strangers, I'd honestly wish they wouldn't.

There is no way you could know if the positive reaction you are getting from a stranger for asking them to smile is sincere or not, and you can't really expect them to understand the intent behind an idiom that is apparently popularly used within Ireland. These are just considerations to keep in mind.

And yet, people assume I don't keep this in mind. People assume that I can't read the emotional play on people's face, and that I don't know when to drop a conversation because the other person just seems to be going through the motions. That I can't grasp that other people may actually exist, and that their emotions may be a jumble of confusion.

It is one statement, out of hundreds that I will make during a conversation. It is neither the alpha nor omega.

[The Truth and Light]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

There's nothing wrong with guys seeking sex, so long as he seeks it with people who explicitly want the same thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd never ask a stranger to smile.
Sometimes i'll tell a friend to Smile,Smile,Smile in reference to pinkie pie.

The only time i've issued essentially an "order" to smile has been in situations where presentation was important for both of us, like a pitch or during a presentation. (or rather, immediately before it.)

Otherwise, it would be incredibly obnoxious. Because thats what you are doing. Issueing an order.

[Bottle]

Sorry, but no. This is a topic that comes up a TON, and I cannot even begin to count the number of times I've had discussions (both in person and online) where there was a chorus of "I fucking hate when people tell me to smile!!!"

It is a fact that many people hate this behavior. In the last few pages of this thread alone there are more than 4 people already who have specifically said they don't like it. I am comfortable with and stand by my use of the plural.

More importantly, if it really was JUST ME, I wouldn't have said anything. I have my own set of personal pet peeves and quirks, but I wouldn't seriously suggest that someone who lives in a different fucking time zone should change their behavior to accomodate my personal foibles, given that the odds of them encountering me specifically are vanishingly small. The whole point here is that this isn't just one person's individual preference...this is something that is common enough to warrant a general behavioral warning.

I'm just going to ask because it's bugging me:

Is that a bat carrying a golf ball or a bat with a fluffy chest?

Combination bat signal and totoro.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Ok, and it is also equally possible that I don't go to places where those people frequent. Again, this is not something that is inherently universal. Just like the (oft debunked) Type-A, Type-B personalities, different people feel differently.

My I suggest that we've established this:

A fair number of people, most of them vocal here (and including me) think being asked to smile by a stranger is fucking annoying.

There may (though I have never, ever heard of them but I'll contend they probably exist) be people who find this activity charming.

As someone who feels the urge to ask people to smile, you recognize this game of roulette and decide to take your chances. To people who find it charming, you will be charming. To people who find it fucking annoying, you will come off as fucking annoying. You have, as far as I can tell, accepted these possibilities.

Is anything else in contention?

Nothing worth bringing up, as everyone feels they were right. At this point, it's just bad comedy.

[The Emerald Dawn]

I'd never ask a stranger to smile.
Sometimes i'll tell a friend to Smile,Smile,Smile in reference to pinkie pie.

The only time i've issued essentially an "order" to smile has been in situations where presentation was important for both of us, like a pitch or during a presentation. (or rather, immediately before it.)

Otherwise, it would be incredibly obnoxious. Because thats what you are doing. Issueing an order.

I've issued orders. Trust me, I don't issue orders anymore.

[Priory Academy USSR]

For fuck's sake, it's a figure of speech. It's not an imperative command to smile now. I've been called 'duck' by various people, and I don't think 'Why the hell are you comparing me to a tiny, barely sentient, dirty bird?'. I'm not a great fan of it, but I can tell by their tone that they mean well, and just accept the thanks.

Okay?

I'm not sure what point you want to make. Even if you fully convince me that being annoyed by being told to smile by a stranger is terribly irrational, I can't actually radio the giant Woman Hivemind to let them know that they must all magically stop finding that obnoxious forthwith. It does not MATTER if there are good reasons for finding it obnoxious. (I'd argue that there are, but that's not the point.) All I have been saying, consistently, is, "Many people find this phrase obnoxious. If you do not want to come off as obnoxious, you should probably not use this phrase."

This may just be my overly mellow view on life, but if someone's making an effort to be nice I generally just ignore the obnoxiousness of the statement and have a chat. If you want to find it obnoxious, then go ahead. All I'm saying is just try to view someone's intentions rather than the actual literal meaning of their words and you may find yourself a little cheerier in life, and then tell that friend you're not a great fan of that particular saying.

That's my opinion, anyway. Feel free to disregard it, though.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Like I said, I will generally feign appreciation for their concern when someone tells me to smile when I'm in a bad mood. Friends and family I can understand why they might persist, but strangers, I'd honestly wish they wouldn't.

There is no way you could know if the positive reaction you are getting from a stranger for asking them to smile is sincere or not, and you can't really expect them to understand the intent behind an idiom that is apparently popularly used within Ireland. These are just considerations to keep in mind.

And yet, people assume I don't keep this in mind. People assume that I can't read the emotional play on people's face, and that I don't know when to drop a conversation because the other person just seems to be going through the motions. That I can't grasp that other people may actually exist, and that their emotions may be a jumble of confusion.

It is one statement, out of hundreds that I will make during a conversation. It is neither the alpha nor omega.

If 50% people of people find it annoying and 50% of people don't, and not all of them will express their gut reaction sincerely, I'd just see it as more sensible to stay on the safe side and not make unwarranted conversation with any of them using that phrase. Remember, these are strangers we are talking about.

[The Emerald Dawn]

And yet, people assume I don't keep this in mind. People assume that I can't read the emotional play on people's face, and that I don't know when to drop a conversation because the other person just seems to be going through the motions. That I can't grasp that other people may actually exist, and that their emotions may be a jumble of confusion.

It is one statement, out of hundreds that I will make during a conversation. It is neither the alpha nor omega.

If 50% people of people find it annoying and 50% of people don't, and not all of them will express their gut reaction sincerely, I'd just see it as more sensible to stay on the safe side and not make unwarranted conversation with any of them using that phrase. Remember, these are strangers we are talking about.

The sensible thing would be for the man in the wheelchair to not talk to anyone at the bar. Engaging in conversations with strangers is something we beat out of children in their first six years of life.

[Cannot think of a name]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

I'm going to say at the outset that I do this to myself more than anything else, but I am absolutely shackled at times over concern that I'm coming off as 'coming on' to women I meet or know. Which is not to say I avoid women lest they think I'm coming on to them. But I'm constantly running this checklist in my head trying to think of ways to make them rest at ease that I'm not trying to come on to them or whatever when they might (probably) not be even thinking of that at all and my behavior then is just weirding everyone out.

Then I start worrying about that...and frankly nothing is weirder than someone actively trying to not be weird.

As I've grown older I just try to distract that part of my brain so it doesn't notice until it's too late and then I can just worry after the fact that I might have come off as coming on to them.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Isn't what really sucks about men and women alike that anything they do can be contextualized as wanting or consenting to sex?

For every "nice" guy, who wanted a relationship beyond just sex, there's been a girl whose been hounded after for giving friendly gestures to guys that actually did just want sex. Sometimes those two overlap, when our nice guy is more or less lying to himself.

It's a sad reality that are society is so sexualized that these lines blur too easily. Although, I don't think prudishness will solve much either.

I'm going to say at the outset that I do this to myself more than anything else, but I am absolutely shackled at times over concern that I'm coming off as 'coming on' to women I meet or know. Which is not to say I avoid women lest they think I'm coming on to them. But I'm constantly running this checklist in my head trying to think of ways to make them rest at ease that I'm not trying to come on to them or whatever when they might (probably) not be even thinking of that at all and my behavior then is just weirding everyone out.

Then I start worrying about that...and frankly nothing is weirder than someone actively trying to not be weird.

As I've grown older I just try to distract that part of my brain so it doesn't notice until it's too late and then I can just worry after the fact that I might have come off as coming on to them.

That is absolutely foreign to me. If I'm coming on to someone, it's painfully obvious. Otherwise, I'm just talking. I can't even imagine having that constant rubric running through your head. That'd be distracting, awkward, and probably painful.

[Cannot think of a name]

My I suggest that we've established this:

A fair number of people, most of them vocal here (and including me) think being asked to smile by a stranger is fucking annoying.

There may (though I have never, ever heard of them but I'll contend they probably exist) be people who find this activity charming.

As someone who feels the urge to ask people to smile, you recognize this game of roulette and decide to take your chances. To people who find it charming, you will be charming. To people who find it fucking annoying, you will come off as fucking annoying. You have, as far as I can tell, accepted these possibilities.

Is anything else in contention?

Nothing worth bringing up, as everyone feels they were right. At this point, it's just bad comedy.

I just wanted to check if we were in the 'arguing past the point' phase of a thread. It's easier to see when you're hardly involved, apparently. I've been trapped in that snowball so many times...

[The Steel Magnolia]

You know I find this hilarious since in basically any other situation most of you would agree with one another.

Stop fucking manufacturing stupid fucking fights.