7 Worst Things About Being Male

[Farnhamia]

I know. And you said that out loud, too.

Well, I probably shouldn't mention how I do it then.

Then again, you don't know if I'm being serious, do you?

55-45 that you are, but it really doesn't matter.

[Katganistan]

You see things like this are why we want the women in the kitchen not outside or on the computer.

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Ethel mermania]

You see things like this are why we want the women in the kitchen not outside or on the computer.

*** Warned for trolling ***

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

[Farnhamia]

*** Warned for trolling ***

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

And after all, there's no such thing as a wrong opinion, right?

[Ethel mermania]

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

And after all, there's no such thing as a wrong opinion, right?

oh yes there is....

[Natapoc]

How about this: For as long as gender remains I support the right of everyone to be treated as the gender they most identify with and to be fully recognized as that gender so long as they identify with it (And publicly support their right to this often)

Is that so bad? It's a complex problem because I really feel it's important to support people in their quest to be treated the way they want to be treated and I often publicly defend this right.

However I feel the concept of gender as a social construct is highly destructive and causes a lot of harm to people. I don't believe there should be "stereotypical male behavior/roles/customs/privileges" or "Stereotypical female traits behavior/roles/customs/privileges"

I don't believe in any form of differing treatment based on sex (or gender)

I absolutely support the destruction of stereotypical male/female behaviour, roles, customs, privileges, etc etc. Ideally, I don't think there should be any meaningful differences in treatment of gender at all. I don't think that means gender necessarily has to disappear for that to happen however - gender is not just expression, stereotypical or not. It is identity, and even if we no longer place meaningful differences in our treatment between men and women, that doesn't mean people will not or should not define themselves accordingly. And I have no problem with that.

I think it may be that the argument is just not really an argument but rather a problem of how gender is conceptualized and how our language uses one word to mean several things.

If you identify as female you're female. If you identify as male you're male. And people should respect that.

[Gravlen]

What sucks about being male? Well, let me tell you. Manscaping is a huge pain in the ass!!



Oh fuck. I said that out loud...

Yes, so you keep telling us...

Manscaping is a pain in the ass, that's for sure.


Shit, I said that out loud, didn't I?

[Gravlen]

Not all men support rape culture. The ones who do support rape culture need to stop that.

Not all women do either. And those who do really need to stop that.

As do you.

[Gravlen]

He's a Playa!

Is it now that I mention I'm a ginger, The is Raven-Blue haired, and the GF is a strawberry blonde?

Because holy shit, I'm Archie without legs!

What should worry you more is that someone has made a cartoon based on your life!

[Cannot think of a name]

Is it now that I mention I'm a ginger, The is Raven-Blue haired, and the GF is a strawberry blonde?

Because holy shit, I'm Archie without legs!

What should worry you more is that someone has made a cartoon based on your life!

I named my car after the chick on the left...now it's all weird...

[Snafturi]

Thing is, right, while it has never actually happened to me (and while, as I pointed out, the whole wider 'girls don't have to buy their own drinks' thing is nonsense), if someone offered to buy me a drink not because we were friends but because I was a girl (and because, presumably, they found me attractive) then I'd definitely be saying no thanks. Why? Because, well, look at what a lot of people see as the implied understanding in the exchange - that if a guy buys a girl a few drink then he has a reasonable expectation that he'll be getting at least a handjob.

Don't really fancy that.

...I buy people drinks if they look like they're lonely or down. I don't expect a whammy, just some conversation or at least a smile.

I have had guys offer to buy me drinks on occasion, and it's pretty easy to tell the ones who want a handjob vs those that are doing it for your reasons. I've also bought people drinks for the same reasons as you, and they seem to know I don't have nefarious intentions.

[Northern Dominus]

...I buy people drinks if they look like they're lonely or down. I don't expect a whammy, just some conversation or at least a smile.

I have had guys offer to buy me drinks on occasion, and it's pretty easy to tell the ones who want a handjob vs those that are doing it for your reasons. I've also bought people drinks for the same reasons as you, and they seem to know I don't have nefarious intentions.

An old fashioned under the table for a mai tai or a singapore sling? Have you seen how expensive drinks are getting these days?....

Okay, before we go too far down that road, I'd argue that buying drinks for another person, regardless of the intent, is still the same thing: bartering one's way into contact beyond a simple greeting. For better or worse it's an attempt to buy someone's attention in some fashion, and it means that intent when buying a drink for somebody isn't really as separate as one would wish it to be.

That being said, I'm all for equal drink-buying opportunities...and... yeah I'm going to kill that there before the mods come along and have a field day.

[Snafturi]

I have had guys offer to buy me drinks on occasion, and it's pretty easy to tell the ones who want a handjob vs those that are doing it for your reasons. I've also bought people drinks for the same reasons as you, and they seem to know I don't have nefarious intentions.

An old fashioned under the table for a mai tai or a singapore sling? Have you seen how expensive drinks are getting these days?....

Okay, before we go too far down that road, I'd argue that buying drinks for another person, regardless of the intent, is still the same thing: bartering one's way into contact beyond a simple greeting. For better or worse it's an attempt to buy someone's attention in some fashion, and it means that intent when buying a drink for somebody isn't really as separate as one would wish it to be.

That being said, I'm all for equal drink-buying opportunities...and... yeah I'm going to kill that there before the mods come along and have a field day.

I guarantee you drinks are at least twice the price in my neck of the woods than they are in yours.

I'd say your outlook is technically correct most of the time, but it's kind of like arguing there's no such thing as being altruistic. Human interaction can be tough, and knowing what to say to a stranger can be even tougher. Yeah, I've used it as an excuse to talk to someone, I've also done it because I knew they'd be flattered and it made me feel good to make them feel good. Maybe that makes me as bad as the people thinking a few beers will buy their way into someone's pants. I hope not.

[Ethel mermania]

An old fashioned under the table for a mai tai or a singapore sling? Have you seen how expensive drinks are getting these days?....

Okay, before we go too far down that road, I'd argue that buying drinks for another person, regardless of the intent, is still the same thing: bartering one's way into contact beyond a simple greeting. For better or worse it's an attempt to buy someone's attention in some fashion, and it means that intent when buying a drink for somebody isn't really as separate as one would wish it to be.

That being said, I'm all for equal drink-buying opportunities...and... yeah I'm going to kill that there before the mods come along and have a field day.

I guarantee you drinks are at least twice the price in my neck of the woods than they are in yours.

I'd say your outlook is technically correct most of the time, but it's kind of like arguing there's no such thing as being altruistic. Human interaction can be tough, and knowing what to say to a stranger can be even tougher. Yeah, I've used it as an excuse to talk to someone, I've also done it because I knew they'd be flattered and it made me feel good to make them feel good. Maybe that makes me as bad as the people thinking a few beers will buy their way into someone's pants. I hope not.

what wrong with buying a few beers to get into someones pants? if they dont want their pants gotten into, they can say "no. thank you".

but that said, everytime i bought a stranger a drink in a bar, i was not trying to get into his or her's respective pants.

[Snafturi]

I guarantee you drinks are at least twice the price in my neck of the woods than they are in yours.

I'd say your outlook is technically correct most of the time, but it's kind of like arguing there's no such thing as being altruistic. Human interaction can be tough, and knowing what to say to a stranger can be even tougher. Yeah, I've used it as an excuse to talk to someone, I've also done it because I knew they'd be flattered and it made me feel good to make them feel good. Maybe that makes me as bad as the people thinking a few beers will buy their way into someone's pants. I hope not.

what wrong with buying a few beers to get into someones pants? if they dont want their pants gotten into, they can say "no. thank you".

but that said, everytime i bought a stranger a drink in a bar, i was not trying to get into his or her's respective pants.

I personally don't have a problem with the concept. However, when people who buy beers then feel that they're entitled or otherwise owed something for it, I see that as problematic. Also, it's amazing how pushy those types of people can be.

Which, upon further reflection leads me to the conclusion that's it's not the initial motives that bother me so much, but more the overall behaviour.

[Northern Dominus]

An old fashioned under the table for a mai tai or a singapore sling? Have you seen how expensive drinks are getting these days?....

Okay, before we go too far down that road, I'd argue that buying drinks for another person, regardless of the intent, is still the same thing: bartering one's way into contact beyond a simple greeting. For better or worse it's an attempt to buy someone's attention in some fashion, and it means that intent when buying a drink for somebody isn't really as separate as one would wish it to be.

That being said, I'm all for equal drink-buying opportunities...and... yeah I'm going to kill that there before the mods come along and have a field day.

I guarantee you drinks are at least twice the price in my neck of the woods than they are in yours.

I'd say your outlook is technically correct most of the time, but it's kind of like arguing there's no such thing as being altruistic. Human interaction can be tough, and knowing what to say to a stranger can be even tougher. Yeah, I've used it as an excuse to talk to someone, I've also done it because I knew they'd be flattered and it made me feel good to make them feel good. Maybe that makes me as bad as the people thinking a few beers will buy their way into someone's pants. I hope not.

Oh there's nothing bad or wrong with the concept in and of itself. Hell I do it once in awhile too... not as often as I used to but once in a great while.

You referenced the only real issue with the practice in your previous post, the fact that some people think that buying a drink automatically implies whatever level of desired contact one hand in mind regardless of their shitty personality or not.

I put that to a friend of mine who used to tend bar as a main source of income (still does for funsies once in awhile), and her big idea is that the bartender could technically act as a go-between if it's a blind buy IE making sure the receiving party actually wants the drink in the first place.

But again, to keep it on track, I can forsee somebody bitching about "Waaaaah, men have to buy the drinks, it's not fair, waaaaah."
To wit, nobody should feel OBLIGED to buy anyone anything as a conversation starter. If that's a person's only opener or their only perceived means of starting any sort of interaction, then they might need to ask themselves "Why does everyone call me a creepy asshole within 24 hours of first meeting me?" rather than assuming everyone else has the problem.

And I very much doubt that drinks are more expensive in your neck of the woods. The municipal tax here runs from $.89 to $2.68 per gallon depending on alcohol by volume, and then there's the county and state taxes to contend with as well. Seeing as this is Illinois... you get the idea. Plus then you have your obligatory "trendy" bar markup which is a whole 'nother level of price gouging depending on the establishment.

[Snafturi]

I guarantee you drinks are at least twice the price in my neck of the woods than they are in yours.

I'd say your outlook is technically correct most of the time, but it's kind of like arguing there's no such thing as being altruistic. Human interaction can be tough, and knowing what to say to a stranger can be even tougher. Yeah, I've used it as an excuse to talk to someone, I've also done it because I knew they'd be flattered and it made me feel good to make them feel good. Maybe that makes me as bad as the people thinking a few beers will buy their way into someone's pants. I hope not.

Oh there's nothing bad or wrong with the concept in and of itself. Hell I do it once in awhile too... not as often as I used to but once in a great while.

You referenced the only real issue with the practice in your previous post, the fact that some people think that buying a drink automatically implies whatever level of desired contact one hand in mind regardless of their shitty personality or not.

I put that to a friend of mine who used to tend bar as a main source of income (still does for funsies once in awhile), and her big idea is that the bartender could technically act as a go-between if it's a blind buy IE making sure the receiving party actually wants the drink in the first place.

But again, to keep it on track, I can forsee somebody bitching about "Waaaaah, men have to buy the drinks, it's not fair, waaaaah."
To wit, nobody should feel OBLIGED to buy anyone anything as a conversation starter. If that's a person's only opener or their only perceived means of starting any sort of interaction, then they might need to ask themselves "Why does everyone call me a creepy asshole within 24 hours of first meeting me?" rather than assuming everyone else has the problem.

Clearly the problem is that women be bitches who only use the nice guys, then go on to fuck, date and marry the assholes.

No, nobody should feel obligated, and I'd argue that in reality,there isn't any pressure to buy drinks for someone in order to talk to them. And really, buying drinks isn't going to significantly increase one's chances of getting in someone's pants unless the plan is to get them shitfaced. And that's creepy as fuck.

And I very much doubt that drinks are more expensive in your neck of the woods. The municipal tax here runs from $.89 to $2.68 per gallon depending on alcohol by volume, and then there's the county and state taxes to contend with as well. Seeing as this is Illinois... you get the idea. Plus then you have your obligatory "trendy" bar markup which is a whole 'nother level of price gouging depending on the establishment.

A beer is on average $14/pint (and not a proper one) out in a pub here, and a mixed drink is well over $20 (and with only one small, precicely measured shot in it). Seriously, I fly to Scotland to have a weekend of cheap drinking. I'd say "I win", but I'm reasonably sure that doesn't count as winning by any definition.

[Choronzon]

*** Warned for trolling ***

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

I do enjoy that we let holocaust denial fly, but backwards views on women are obvious trolling.

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

And after all, there's no such thing as a wrong opinion, right?

I do find it puzzling that saying women should be in the kitchen is trolling, but denying the holocaust or calling AIDS the gay virus is a serious discussion point that is in no way trolling and we should all engage it seriously otherwise we are shutting down a perfectly legitimate debate and SHAME ON US.

If we're going to call stupid, trollish opinions trollish why not be consistent?

[DogDoo 7]

oh come on, that is a point of view, its a damm stupid one, but its one that has been voice before

I do enjoy that we let holocaust denial fly, but backwards views on women are obvious trolling.

And after all, there's no such thing as a wrong opinion, right?

I do find it puzzling that saying women should be in the kitchen is trolling, but denying the holocaust or calling AIDS the gay virus is a serious discussion point that is in no way trolling and we should all engage it seriously otherwise we are shutting down a perfectly legitimate debate and SHAME ON US.

If we're going to call stupid, trollish opinions trollish why not be consistent?

Its not stupidity of the opinion, it's the intent of the person behind it. Purely subjective

[Person012345]

I assumed it was a poor attempt at a joke rather than real trolling.

[Northern Dominus]

Oh there's nothing bad or wrong with the concept in and of itself. Hell I do it once in awhile too... not as often as I used to but once in a great while.

You referenced the only real issue with the practice in your previous post, the fact that some people think that buying a drink automatically implies whatever level of desired contact one hand in mind regardless of their shitty personality or not.

I put that to a friend of mine who used to tend bar as a main source of income (still does for funsies once in awhile), and her big idea is that the bartender could technically act as a go-between if it's a blind buy IE making sure the receiving party actually wants the drink in the first place.

But again, to keep it on track, I can forsee somebody bitching about "Waaaaah, men have to buy the drinks, it's not fair, waaaaah."
To wit, nobody should feel OBLIGED to buy anyone anything as a conversation starter. If that's a person's only opener or their only perceived means of starting any sort of interaction, then they might need to ask themselves "Why does everyone call me a creepy asshole within 24 hours of first meeting me?" rather than assuming everyone else has the problem.

Clearly the problem is that women be bitches who only use the nice guys, then go on to fuck, date and marry the assholes.

No, nobody should feel obligated, and I'd argue that in reality,there isn't any pressure to buy drinks for someone in order to talk to them. And really, buying drinks isn't going to significantly increase one's chances of getting in someone's pants unless the plan is to get them shitfaced. And that's creepy as fuck.

And I very much doubt that drinks are more expensive in your neck of the woods. The municipal tax here runs from $.89 to $2.68 per gallon depending on alcohol by volume, and then there's the county and state taxes to contend with as well. Seeing as this is Illinois... you get the idea. Plus then you have your obligatory "trendy" bar markup which is a whole 'nother level of price gouging depending on the establishment.

A beer is on average $14/pint (and not a proper one) out in a pub here, and a mixed drink is well over $20 (and with only one small, precicely measured shot in it). Seriously, I fly to Scotland to have a weekend of cheap drinking. I'd say "I win", but I'm reasonably sure that doesn't count as winning by any definition.

I'd love to fully agree with you, but the whole buying drinks thing is a cultural norm at this point. Hell, not to go into anecdotes but not THAT long ago I attempted to strike up a conversation with a woman at a local watering hole. She wasn't abrasive in her delivery but she duly informed me that in order to curry her attention it was a one drink minimum of her choice.

My response was something along the lines of "Dafuq?"... more politely of course. So yes, unfortuantely there are people out there who feel self-entitled to that drinks-buying thing which helps perpetuate the rather skewed process, so once again, women have a bit of an obligation to smash the stereotype there along with the self-entitled males who think that buying a manhattan means one degree of buyer's choice fumbling in the alleyway behind the bar...or something. Then there are the assholes that carry around rohypnol and GHB with them...they deserve a swift kicking site on seen.

And shit, judging by those prices you live somewhere near Blackpool i'd wager?

[Choronzon]

I do enjoy that we let holocaust denial fly, but backwards views on women are obvious trolling.

I do find it puzzling that saying women should be in the kitchen is trolling, but denying the holocaust or calling AIDS the gay virus is a serious discussion point that is in no way trolling and we should all engage it seriously otherwise we are shutting down a perfectly legitimate debate and SHAME ON US.

If we're going to call stupid, trollish opinions trollish why not be consistent?

Its not stupidity of the opinion, it's the intent of the person behind it. Purely subjective

So, the intent behind "Women stay in the kitchen," is different from the intent behind "the Holocau$t is a Jewish conspiracy,"? Its different from the intent behind "AIDS is the gay virus," or "Trans people are subhuman scum,"? All of which have been ruled opinions that are totally not trolling and valid points we must engage with or we are ruining a perfectly good discussion?

Yeah, forgive me, but fuck that. Fuck that a thousand times.

[DogDoo 7]

A beer is on average $14/pint (and not a proper one) out in a pub here, and a mixed drink is well over $20 (and with only one small, precicely measured shot in it). Seriously, I fly to Scotland to have a weekend of cheap drinking. I'd say "I win", but I'm reasonably sure that doesn't count as winning by any definition.

Wow, suddenly I feel better about my $8 half liters.

[Snafturi]

Clearly the problem is that women be bitches who only use the nice guys, then go on to fuck, date and marry the assholes.

No, nobody should feel obligated, and I'd argue that in reality,there isn't any pressure to buy drinks for someone in order to talk to them. And really, buying drinks isn't going to significantly increase one's chances of getting in someone's pants unless the plan is to get them shitfaced. And that's creepy as fuck.



A beer is on average $14/pint (and not a proper one) out in a pub here, and a mixed drink is well over $20 (and with only one small, precicely measured shot in it). Seriously, I fly to Scotland to have a weekend of cheap drinking. I'd say "I win", but I'm reasonably sure that doesn't count as winning by any definition.

I'd love to fully agree with you, but the whole buying drinks thing is a cultural norm at this point. Hell, not to go into anecdotes but not THAT long ago I attempted to strike up a conversation with a woman at a local watering hole. She wasn't abrasive in her delivery but she duly informed me that in order to curry her attention it was a one drink minimum of her choice.

My response was something along the lines of "Dafuq?"... more politely of course. So yes, unfortuantely there are people out there who feel self-entitled to that drinks-buying thing which helps perpetuate the rather skewed process, so once again, women have a bit of an obligation to smash the stereotype there along with the self-entitled males who think that buying a manhattan means one degree of buyer's choice fumbling in the alleyway behind the bar...or something. Then there are the assholes that carry around rohypnol and GHB with them...they deserve a swift kicking site on seen.

I stand corrected. I think I might have been guilty of some confirmation bias. I tend to not hang out with assholes, so I haven't seen those happenings. Could also be a cultural thing. Haven't lived in the US for quite some time, and when I did, I generally frequented drinking establishments where this would be less likely to be an issue.

FWIW, I don't think you owed her a polite response. Those are like, the rules for talking to working folks in brothels or strip clubs, not for general social time.

And shit, judging by those prices you live somewhere near Blackpool i'd wager?

Norway.

[Northern Dominus]

I'd love to fully agree with you, but the whole buying drinks thing is a cultural norm at this point. Hell, not to go into anecdotes but not THAT long ago I attempted to strike up a conversation with a woman at a local watering hole. She wasn't abrasive in her delivery but she duly informed me that in order to curry her attention it was a one drink minimum of her choice.

My response was something along the lines of "Dafuq?"... more politely of course. So yes, unfortunately there are people out there who feel self-entitled to that drinks-buying thing which helps perpetuate the rather skewed process, so once again, women have a bit of an obligation to smash the stereotype there along with the self-entitled males who think that buying a manhattan means one degree of buyer's choice fumbling in the alleyway behind the bar...or something. Then there are the assholes that carry around rohypnol and GHB with them...they deserve a swift kicking site on seen.

I stand corrected. I think I might have been guilty of some confirmation bias. I tend to not hang out with assholes, so I haven't seen those happenings. Could also be a cultural thing. Haven't lived in the US for quite some time, and when I did, I generally frequented drinking establishments where this would be less likely to be an issue.

FWIW, I don't think you owed her a polite response. Those are like, the rules for talking to working folks in brothels or strip clubs, not for general social time.

And shit, judging by those prices you live somewhere near Blackpool i'd wager?

Norway.

Confirmation bias is a human tendency. The trick is to recognize it (which I often fail at TBH) and adjust accordingly. Even then, that's one example of that particular exchange. I've done the same thing plenty of other times and come to the conclusion that the drink was ancillary to chemistry and personality in the first place anyway, so my anecodotal evidence really should be taken for what it's worth.

And really? Norway? Generally the bars and nightclubs I visited in Bergen weren't unreasonably pricey, and they weren't dives or holes-in-the-wall either. Even the most expensive one wasn't godawful, and I figured that since there was no cover charge and it really was rather well done inside (sort of like a Scandinavian interpretation of an American dive bar but well done... yes it was as wonderfully strange as it sounds) that the establishment had to make up their money somewhere and it had to come from the drinks.

Ah yes, Norway...and Norwegian women....