Should Assault Weapons be banned?

[Morganutopia]

What is a assult Weapon I have never seen one?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... ta-table-8
3.8%, still stupidly low. 'Assault Weapons', per the title of the thread, account for a minority of this minority of homicides, compared to the 6220 of 8583 firearms homicides committed with handguns.

here is another source for the same.
http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF
page four has it broken down by type, the only firearm used in crime less than rifles is shotguns.

That link is twenty years old.

[Lolzieristan]

What is a assult Weapon I have never seen one?

You know, they're those scary black AK47 machine guns with the shoulder thing that goes up and the barrel shroud so you can shoot 500 people and your hand doesn't get burned.

Also, bayonet lugs. Because of all of those drive-by bayonetings that have been happening in LA.

[Sociobiology]

here is another source for the same.
http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF
page four has it broken down by type, the only firearm used in crime less than rifles is shotguns.

That link is twenty years old.

but far more comprehensive than your source.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

That link is twenty years old.

but far more comprehensive than your source.

In spite of the generic trends being correct, it does come right at the tail end of this hilarious statistical spike:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ushom ... weapon.svg
The rate of firearm homicide in 1993 is double that what it is today.

[Yes Im Biop]

No, I'm pretty sure that My shooting steel and Clay target's at 100 yards IS a sport.

Nah, you're totally murdering those steel plates and clay targets. Totally.

Depend's on how much ammo I have.

And Contrary to what they said, Killing has been a sport for...Well LONGER then man has walked this earth.

[Sociobiology]

but far more comprehensive than your source.

In spite of the generic trends being correct, it does come right at the tail end of this hilarious statistical spike:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ushom ... weapon.svg
The rate of firearm homicide in 1993 is double that what it is today.

you do realize the Brady bill took effect in 1993 and the first assault weapons ban went into effect a year later.
so it makes it look like some regulation is VERY effective.

whereas my source is from before an assault weapons ban.
so an assault weapons ban passes, gun homicide halves...
wow
That is the first good argument I have seen FOR an assault weapons ban,

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The AWB and Brady Bill introduced far more than just firearms bans.
The AWB, for example, also brought in a raft of counter-gangs legislation. For one, membership of a gang was now a felony which would have served to take a number of gang shooters off the streets.

[Sociobiology]

The AWB and Brady Bill introduced far more than just firearms bans.
The AWB, for example, also brought in a raft of counter-gangs legislation. For one, membership of a gang was now a felony which would have served to take a number of gang shooters off the streets.

which all expired
but would have been reupped with the most recent AWB.
you might turn me around on this yet.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

The AWB and Brady Bill introduced far more than just firearms bans.
The AWB, for example, also brought in a raft of counter-gangs legislation. For one, membership of a gang was now a felony which would have served to take a number of gang shooters off the streets.

which all expired
but would have been reupped with the most recent AWB.

Sorry, my mistake.
The AWB was introduced under the VCCLEA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Cr ... cement_Act and included as separate legislation no fewer than 50 gang related offences, and dozens of other legislature.

[Sevvania]

whereas my source is from before an assault weapons ban.
so an assault weapons ban passes, gun homicide halves...
wow
That is the first good argument I have seen FOR an assault weapons ban,

I don't see how banning a type of weapon that accounts for ~3% of gun crimes cuts the rate of gun homicides in half. Which would lead me to believe that gun homicide has been declining despite the current legality of "assault weapons".

[Sociobiology]

whereas my source is from before an assault weapons ban.
so an assault weapons ban passes, gun homicide halves...
wow
That is the first good argument I have seen FOR an assault weapons ban,

I don't see how banning a type of weapon that accounts for ~3% of gun crimes cuts the rate of gun homicides in half.

one, the assault weapons ban affects far more than rifles.
In fact one could argue handguns would be the most affected group, based on number of guns in circulations affected by the law.

second, apparently it does, whether it not we know how it does.

[Morganutopia]

What is a "assault weapon" IS IT A .410 OR A GLOCK I do not understand!!!!

[Sevvania]

what is a "assault weapon" i do not understand!!!!

Well that's the thing: It's a very vague, unspecific definition, that can be slapped onto handguns, carbines, rifles, shotguns, and pretty much anything that has a certain look to it. One of the rifles that is most commonly classified as an "assault weapons" is the AR-15, which is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a varmint-hunting cartridge from a detachable magazine.

[Sociobiology]

What is a "assault weapon" IS IT A .410 OR A GLOCK I do not understand!!!!

assault weapon = things that fulfill the requirements in the assault weapons ban, there is a whole bunch of contingencies.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I don't see how banning a type of weapon that accounts for ~3% of gun crimes cuts the rate of gun homicides in half.

one, the assault weapons ban affects far more than rifles.
In fact one could argue handguns would be the most affected group, based on number of guns in circulations affected by the law.

second, apparently it does, whether it not we know how it does.

As the graph I linked earlier shows, rifles and shotguns have accounted for a pretty linearly declining proportion of homicides. Handguns were high, but pretty stable, then spiked for no evident reason in the late eighties, peaking just before the introduction of the Brady Bill. It then declines sharply to slightly lower than pre-spike. Throughout the Brady and AWB legislature, rifle and shotgun homicides have remained on the same decline they were before it.

Over a twenty year period since the Brady Bill, yes, firearms homicides have been cut in half. So have homicides in general. Meanwhile, firearms ownership has increased drastically. Your source from 1995 said that since 1899, 223 million firearms had existed in the US. Today, there are an estimated 314mn live weapons in ownership.
It makes correlation arguments to the 'armed society' viewpoint, too.

The definition of an 'assault weapon', as a slight aside, is pretty much bullshit.

[Sociobiology]

what is a "assault weapon" i do not understand!!!!

Well that's the thing: It's a very vague, unspecific definition, that can be slapped onto handguns, carbines, rifles, shotguns, and pretty much anything that has a certain look to it. One of the rifles that is most commonly classified as an "assault weapons" is the AR-15, which is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a varmint-hunting cartridge from a detachable magazine.

originally built as an assault rifle for the army.

so saying AR-15's were made for hunting is misleading to say the least.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Well that's the thing: It's a very vague, unspecific definition, that can be slapped onto handguns, carbines, rifles, shotguns, and pretty much anything that has a certain look to it. One of the rifles that is most commonly classified as an "assault weapons" is the AR-15, which is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a varmint-hunting cartridge from a detachable magazine.

originally built as an assault rifle for the army.

so saying AR-15's were made for hunting is misleading to say the least.

Made for hunting the deadliest prey of all...

But still, as it is, the 5.56 NATO derives from the .223 Rem which derives from the .222 Rem - very much marketed as a target and varmint cartridge. The AR-15, as it is, is also made for hunting and target shooting, since the M16 and M4 are what are made for the US Army.

[Sevvania]

Well that's the thing: It's a very vague, unspecific definition, that can be slapped onto handguns, carbines, rifles, shotguns, and pretty much anything that has a certain look to it. One of the rifles that is most commonly classified as an "assault weapons" is the AR-15, which is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a varmint-hunting cartridge from a detachable magazine.

originally built as an assault rifle for the army.

so saying AR-15's were made for hunting is misleading to say the least.

The military version of the AR-15 fires a heavier bullet at a higher velocity than the civilian AR-15: firing military-grade ammo from a standard civilian AR-15 is dangerous because of the higher pressures involved, which the civilian AR-15 is not built to handle. The military version of the AR-15 is capable of three-round-burst and/or fully-automatic fire, depending on the variant: the civilian AR-15 is only capable of semi-automatic fire. The civilian AR-15 is a weapon that visually resembles the military model, but has been toned down substantially for civilian use.

So saying the civilian AR-15 was built for the Army is misleading to say the least.

[Sociobiology]

one, the assault weapons ban affects far more than rifles.
In fact one could argue handguns would be the most affected group, based on number of guns in circulations affected by the law.

second, apparently it does, whether it not we know how it does.

As the graph I linked earlier shows, rifles and shotguns have accounted for a pretty linearly declining proportion of homicides. Handguns were high, but pretty stable, then spiked for no evident reason in the late eighties, peaking just before the introduction of the Brady Bill. It then declines sharply to slightly lower than pre-spike. Throughout the Brady and AWB legislature, rifle and shotgun homicides have remained on the same decline they were before it.

again the Brady bill affected only handguns, and the AWB affected mostly handguns.
so shotguns and rifles are not great for analyzing their impact.

Over a twenty year period since the Brady Bill, yes, firearms homicides have been cut in half. So have homicides in general. Meanwhile, firearms ownership has increased drastically. Your source from 1995 said that since 1899, 223 million firearms had existed in the US. Today, there are an estimated 314mn live weapons in ownership.
It makes correlation arguments to the 'armed society' viewpoint, too.

or it makes the point that background checks make a big difference and don't prevent ownership by legitimate parties.
oh and gun homicides make up 70% of homicides so no shit a reduction in gun homicide is going to have a huge impact on homicide on general.

the armed society argument is bullshit just because most the countries with less violence and homicide are less armed, and all of them have tighter gun regulation.
there is no correlation between higher rates of gun ownership and less violence.

[Sevvania]

there is no correlation between higher rates of gun ownership and less violence.

If there is no correlation between gun ownership and violence (as you've stated), then there's no reason to enact an "assault weapons" ban: because more guns does not necessarily equal more violence, therefore less guns will not necessarily equal less violence.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

There is correlation, because as firearm ownership increased by about 45% minimum, firearm homicide dropped by half.
I said 'correlation', not 'definitive and peer-reviewed evidence'.

The AWB heavily affected rifles. The AK and AR-15 platform, arguably two of the most popular semi-automatic rifle types (the US export market makes up a third of AK-100 series rifle production from the Izhmash state armoury).
And yet, rifle and shotgun violence did not significantly decline outside of existing trend.

There was no real impact on the prevalence of firearms in homicide. As a trend, it remained identical.
16,500 out of 24,500 in 1993, 8500 out of 12,500 in 2011.
Probably far better attributed to general improvements in crimefighting brought in under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act.

[Paddy O Fernature]

there is no correlation between higher rates of gun ownership and less violence.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818862/posts

[Sociobiology]

originally built as an assault rifle for the army.

so saying AR-15's were made for hunting is misleading to say the least.

The military version of the AR-15 fires a heavier bullet at a higher velocity than the civilian AR-15: firing military-grade ammo from a standard civilian AR-15 is dangerous because of the higher pressures involved, which the civilian AR-15 is not built to handle. The military version of the AR-15 is capable of three-round-burst and/or fully-automatic fire, depending on the variant: the civilian AR-15 is only capable of semi-automatic fire. The civilian AR-15 is a weapon that visually resembles the military model, but has been toned down substantially for civilian use.

So saying the civilian AR-15 was built for the Army is misleading to say the least.

no it is very accurate that is what it was designed for, and is still sold to chamber those rounds, you are confusing the AR-15 with the AR-10, you CAN buy other configurations but you can also buy ones that are bright pink or fitted for .50 beowulf rounds.

again the original AR-15 fulfills the definition of assault rifle, so using it as an example just undermines your argument.
It would be like arguing the M16 was designed for hunting because the civilian ones are single shot.

[Sociobiology]

there is no correlation between higher rates of gun ownership and less violence.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818862/posts

which has exactly the violent crime rate predicted by its small population.
And fell at exactly the same rate as the rest of the country.

again NO correlation between increased firearms ownership and less violence.