Genetically Modified Foods

[Bodangus]

Mankind loves itself so much it now believes it can have a say in the composition of the food we eat but we cant feed the hungry.

GMOs are the best shot we've got at feeding the hungry. What with Golden Rice fixing Vitamin A deficiency all over SEA, NERICA improving crop yields in Guinea, and draught-resistant maize in Africa, it's a good start.

I definately agree but we have to do it for all the right reasons and at the moment all I have ever seen is seedless watermelons and pip-less grapes etc.. I've been told, that 1 container of worms can reduce the salt content in the earth in most North African countries enough to turn 6 square miles into farm-able land. That would be a good start too. There are aquifers all over Africa so lets ask just one western govt to sacrifice 1 year and a couple of million dollars to a project similar to this maybe?

[Defensor]

I do, myself, enjoy gender mollified fried chicken

GMOs are the best shot we've got at feeding the hungry. What with Golden Rice fixing Vitamin A deficiency all over SEA, NERICA improving crop yields in Guinea, and draught-resistant maize in Africa, it's a good start.

I definately agree but we have to do it for all the right reasons and at the moment all I have ever seen is seedless watermelons and pip-less grapes etc.. I've been told, that 1 container of worms can reduce the salt content in the earth in most North African countries enough to turn 6 square miles into farm-able land. That would be a good start too. There are aquifers all over Africa so lets ask just one western govt to sacrifice 1 year and a couple of million dollars to a project similar to this maybe?

The problem with that, Bodangus, is that no one care about Africa. Hell, even Africans don't care about Africa. Only washed up hippies and scallywags such as yourself do. Crazy huh?

[Kuzcan]

Monsanto has been fighting tooth and nail to make it ILLEGAL TO LABEL GMO'S. They are scum. They genetically modify seeds so that the crop's seeds won't grow, and the farmers will have to keep buying the seeds. I'm not against genetic engineering, but we don't have enough knowledge and experience with genetics to be applying them publicly.

[Great Nepal]

Monsanto has been fighting tooth and nail to make it ILLEGAL TO LABEL GMO'S. They are scum. They genetically modify seeds so that the crop's seeds won't grow, and the farmers will have to keep buying the seeds. I'm not against genetic engineering, but we don't have enough knowledge and experience with genetics to be applying them publicly.

We have been genetically modifying food since centuries, we just learned how to do it more efficiently.

[70 Ophiuchi]

I definately agree but we have to do it for all the right reasons and at the moment all I have ever seen is seedless watermelons and pip-less grapes etc..

All the right reasons usually means never doing it. As far as I'm concerned unless it's harmful, do it, develop the technology, make some money off it, etc.

I've been told, that 1 container of worms can reduce the salt content in the earth in most North African countries enough to turn 6 square miles into farm-able land.

Source? Because that seems hard to believe (and salt-tolerant GMOs would also render it superfluous).

The problem with that, Bodangus, is that no one care about Africa. Hell, even Africans don't care about Africa. Only washed up hippies and scallywags such as yourself do. Crazy huh?

I wouldn't go so far (there are plenty of people in Africa who care about it), I also wouldn't say the hippies care about it, those types of people don't actually care about things, they care about caring about them.

Monsanto has been fighting tooth and nail to make it ILLEGAL TO LABEL GMO'S.

wtf?

I thought they were merely wanting not to have to put something the ignorant public would perceive as a warning sign on products that are the safest in the market, one which will increase the cost of food by about 10%, we should not be subsiding rich idiots which is exactly what mandatory labelling of GMOs would do.

They are scum.

Anti-biotech activists are worse than Monsanto, so if Monsanto are scum (and they certainly do have their problems)…

They genetically modify seeds so that the crop's seeds won't grow, and the farmers will have to keep buying the seeds.

The farmers have to keep buying the seeds regardless of whether it would be technically possible for them to replant them, it is part of the contract they sign when they buy them.

BTW: Do you consider hybrid crops to be bad?

I'm not against genetic engineering,

Yes you are, it would be nice of you to stop lying.

but we don't have enough knowledge and experience with genetics to be applying them publicly.

We've been using genetic engineering for decades and have yet to have any problems from them and genetically modified food is the safest part of our food supply.

We do indeed appear to have enough knowledge and experience to apply them, your concern trolling aside.

[Bodangus]

I do, myself, enjoy gender mollified fried chicken

I definately agree but we have to do it for all the right reasons and at the moment all I have ever seen is seedless watermelons and pip-less grapes etc.. I've been told, that 1 container of worms can reduce the salt content in the earth in most North African countries enough to turn 6 square miles into farm-able land. That would be a good start too. There are aquifers all over Africa so lets ask just one western govt to sacrifice 1 year and a couple of million dollars to a project similar to this maybe?

The problem with that, Bodangus, is that no one care about Africa. Hell, even Africans don't care about Africa. Only washed up hippies and scallywags such as yourself do. Crazy huh?

Africans care about Africa its just that the west would prefer Africa to be at war with its self otherwise the west would stretch beyond the token gestures of NATO and the RED CROSS etc. Im more concerned with the hypocrisy of it all when it comes to GMOs and realistcally, beyond seed less fruit there is no profit with GMOs and thats the driver.

[Bodangus]

Monsanto has been fighting tooth and nail to make it ILLEGAL TO LABEL GMO'S. They are scum. They genetically modify seeds so that the crop's seeds won't grow, and the farmers will have to keep buying the seeds. I'm not against genetic engineering, but we don't have enough knowledge and experience with genetics to be applying them publicly.

We have been genetically modifying food since centuries, we just learned how to do it more efficiently.

Apparently all the grass on the planet has been genetically modified over the centuries. We don't have 1 blade of original grass anymore

[70 Ophiuchi]

Africans care about Africa its just that the west would prefer Africa to be at war with its self

No we wouldn't, we'd much rather Africa not be at war.

otherwise the west would stretch beyond the token gestures of NATO and the RED CROSS etc.

Africa's problem has less to do with the west and more to do with bad government there (corruption is rampant in Africa).

Im more concerned with the hypocrisy of it all when it comes to GMOs and realistcally, beyond seed less fruit there is no profit with GMOs and thats the driver.

I don't see this hypocrisy you see, I also see a lot of GMOs being grown in the third world (and not much of it is seed less fruit, more like drought resistant crops) and they also pay for them (why? because the productivity improvements they get are worth more than the cost of the seeds).

[Risottia]

What is your view on genetically modified foods? Why?

They're ok. Basically, it's the same thing we've done for centuries, through selection and through accelerated mutation in the last century.

I think, though, that they should be controlled and tested more thoroughly. Not about danger for humans: about danger for the ecosystem and for other crops.

Anyway, the whole GMO issue is being blown out of proportion. So far, there is only a handful of commercially viable GM crops iirc: canola, soy, potatoes, tobacco and maize... maybe some more (tomatoes?) but not a lot.

[New Ziedrich]

What a coincidence that this thread should be posted, as I had just come to NSG to bitch about a cookbook I bought last April being full of anti-GMO bitching. That was disappointing; I just wnated to make cute food in muffin tins!

And, as usual, I'm late to the party and all the relevant arguments have already been made, so just add a tick to the pro-GMO tally and I'll be off again. It's late here.

[Screensaver]

Their use can certainly be beneficial. But they should be labeled. Everyone should know what they are consuming.

[Bodangus]

Africans care about Africa its just that the west would prefer Africa to be at war with its self

No we wouldn't, we'd much rather Africa not be at war.

otherwise the west would stretch beyond the token gestures of NATO and the RED CROSS etc.

Africa's problem has less to do with the west and more to do with bad government there (corruption is rampant in Africa).

Im more concerned with the hypocrisy of it all when it comes to GMOs and realistcally, beyond seed less fruit there is no profit with GMOs and thats the driver.

I don't see this hypocrisy you see, I also see a lot of GMOs being grown in the third world (and not much of it is seed less fruit, more like drought resistant crops) and they also pay for them (why? because the productivity improvements they get are worth more than the cost of the seeds).

I have spent time in Africa have you? One thing that struck me when I first went there was the difference between Muslim townships and others. You genuinely felt safe in Muslim townships in Africa where as in the other townships you were always on edge. Another thing was the level of poverty but the children were happy. Even in rebel controlled townships with death all around them the children were happy. To witness these 2 aspect of Africa definately changes your perspective on how we live in the west but what can you do aye?

These areas dont need feeding they need structure. Then there are those parts of Africa where western mining companies pay workers peanuts who are then victimised for every last cent both by rebels and govt forces to support an African or national cause while carrying M16s and wearing US webbing and boots. The injustices brought on by western greed is visually obvious but then there are those areas where Africa is left to the Africans and its a very beautiful place trust me. The ugly thing about it is that its here where people go hungry due to all the reasons Im guessing you can surmise yourself

[70 Ophiuchi]

I think, though, that they should be controlled and tested more thoroughly. Not about danger for humans: about danger for the ecosystem and for other crops.

We've been using them for decades without any problems, thus there isn't an argument for further general tightening of the regulations and in fact is a pretty good argument for loosening them.

Their use can certainly be beneficial. But they should be labeled. Everyone should know what they are consuming.

Which means poor people (who may barely be able to afford food) get to pay more for their food regardless of whether or not they care if it's transgenic.

There isn't even a good reason to label them.

I have spent time in Africa have you?

Irrelevant.

One thing that struck me when I first went there was the difference between Muslim townships and others. You genuinely felt safe in Muslim townships in Africa where as in the other townships you were always on edge.

Do the crime statistics support that? Somehow I suspect there isn't any significant difference between Muslim townships and others.

Another thing was the level of poverty but the children were happy.

They don't know anything else, children in the west are happy as well.

There's also some evidence that villagers in Africa are acting happy to please donors.

These areas dont need feeding they need structure.

If the people are starving then food is exactly what they need. If you want people to demand better government, you need to have their basic survival needs met.

Then there are those parts of Africa where western mining companies pay workers peanuts

More than they'd get elsewhere in that country most likely.

The injustices brought on by western greed is visually obvious

Then why is Asia doing better? Why is South America doing better?

You need to learn to accept that the problem is not the west, the west has gotten over colonialism and is not the problem any more, the problem is that the poor countries have bad government, corrupt government that takes much of the money received and funnels it to cronies (yes, this includes foreign aid money).

but then there are those areas where Africa is left to the Africans and its a very beautiful place trust me.

Oh I'm sure Africa is beautiful, but it's not the whole leaving it to the Africans (who are the majority in most of the countries in Africa) thing that is doing it, but the natural beauty of the place (also that we evolved in Africa).

The ugly thing about it is that its here where people go hungry due to all the reasons Im guessing you can surmise yourself

Yes, I can imagine corruption, civil war, western activists who want to help the third world but who are incompetent, etc.

But it isn't malice of the western world that is Africa's problem and the longer they take to realise that the longer it will take for them to solve the problems they have.

Only Africans can solve their problems, the west can help them (and will), but it can not force the problems to go away and is not causing them (even if some people in the west are benefiting from them).

[Bodangus]

I think, though, that they should be controlled and tested more thoroughly. Not about danger for humans: about danger for the ecosystem and for other crops.

We've been using them for decades without any problems, thus there isn't an argument for further general tightening of the regulations and in fact is a pretty good argument for loosening them.

Their use can certainly be beneficial. But they should be labeled. Everyone should know what they are consuming.

Which means poor people (who may barely be able to afford food) get to pay more for their food regardless of whether or not they care if it's transgenic.

There isn't even a good reason to label them.

I have spent time in Africa have you?

Irrelevant.

One thing that struck me when I first went there was the difference between Muslim townships and others. You genuinely felt safe in Muslim townships in Africa where as in the other townships you were always on edge.

Do the crime statistics support that? Somehow I suspect there isn't any significant difference between Muslim townships and others.

Another thing was the level of poverty but the children were happy.

They don't know anything else, children in the west are happy as well.

There's also some evidence that villagers in Africa are acting happy to please donors.

These areas dont need feeding they need structure.

If the people are starving then food is exactly what they need. If you want people to demand better government, you need to have their basic survival needs met.

Then there are those parts of Africa where western mining companies pay workers peanuts

More than they'd get elsewhere in that country most likely.

The injustices brought on by western greed is visually obvious

Then why is Asia doing better? Why is South America doing better?

You need to learn to accept that the problem is not the west, the west has gotten over colonialism and is not the problem any more, the problem is that the poor countries have bad government, corrupt government that takes much of the money received and funnels it to cronies (yes, this includes foreign aid money).

but then there are those areas where Africa is left to the Africans and its a very beautiful place trust me.

Oh I'm sure Africa is beautiful, but it's not the whole leaving it to the Africans (who are the majority in most of the countries in Africa) thing that is doing it, but the natural beauty of the place (also that we evolved in Africa).

The ugly thing about it is that its here where people go hungry due to all the reasons Im guessing you can surmise yourself

Yes, I can imagine corruption, civil war, western activists who want to help the third world but who are incompetent, etc.

But it isn't malice of the western world that is Africa's problem and the longer they take to realise that the longer it will take for them to solve the problems they have.

Only Africans can solve their problems, the west can help them (and will), but it can not force the problems to go away and is not causing them (even if some people in the west are benefiting from them).

So you have never been to Africa then? Go there my friend and experience the things that you have strong opinions about you know. Its easy to sit back and come up with reasons and answers to things you genuinely feel passionate about but to get an honest grip on the reality of it you really have to be there.

Im trying to come up with a phrase that might encapsulate what im trying to say to you so ive come up with this one.

"Africa is a place of beauty and ugliness, its a place of contradictions, but its her beauty that catches you the most"

Perhaps before we look at GMO farming we need to look at ourselves first and ask are we modifying food to make a profit or are we modifying food to feed the hungry?

[Yue-Laou]

They should not be labeled imo.

[Immoren]

They should not be labeled imo.

Your reasoning?

[Zweite Alaje]

Hey, as long as the stuff doesn't kill me our turn me into a mutant ninja turtle, I'm good.

[Immoren]

Hey, as long as the stuff doesn't kill me our turn me into a mutant ninja turtle, I'm good.

Wouldn't it be awesome to be a ninja turtle?

[Risottia]

Hey, as long as the stuff doesn't kill me our turn me into a mutant ninja turtle, I'm good.

Wouldn't it be awesome to be a ninja turtle?

Marginally.
I can appreciate pizza without being a ninja turtle.

[Bodangus]

Wouldn't it be awesome to be a ninja turtle?

Marginally.
I can appreciate pizza without being a ninja turtle.

That shell has to be a hindrance surely?

[Sociobiology]

We have been genetically modifying food since centuries, we just learned how to do it more efficiently.

Apparently all the grass on the planet has been genetically modified over the centuries. We don't have 1 blade of original grass anymore

thanks for proving you don't know what modification is. We can safely ignore you now.

[Sociobiology]

Monsanto has been fighting tooth and nail to make it ILLEGAL TO LABEL GMO'S.

good, because it would be a waste of time and effort, and require labeling 99% of everything we eat.

They genetically modify seeds so that the crop's seeds won't grow, and the farmers will have to keep buying the seeds.

which is a perfectly legitimate thing for a company to do, planned obsolescence is everywhere, it is the patent that is the issue.

I'm not against genetic engineering, but we don't have enough knowledge and experience with genetics to be applying them publicly.

proving you don't know enough about genetic engineering to have an informed opinion.

[Wikkiwallana]

Their use can certainly be beneficial. But they should be labeled. Everyone should know what they are consuming.

The current label tells them everything they need to know.

[Zweite Alaje]

Hey, as long as the stuff doesn't kill me our turn me into a mutant ninja turtle, I'm good.

Wouldn't it be awesome to be a ninja turtle?

Nah, if I wanna learn Ninjutsu, I'll take classes for it.

[Yue-Laou]

They should not be labeled imo.

Your reasoning?

There's no need to. It would give GM food an unfair competitive disadvantage by making the anti-GMO crowd more credible. Kind of legitimising their pseudo scientific nonsense.