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The Bible and Hell

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Does 'Hell' exist in the Bible?

No, it isn't even mentioned.
10
8%
Maybe not 'Hell', but rather a form of temporary punishment after death.
14
11%
Yes, the Bible unquestionably provides teaching on Hell and eternal damnation.
36
30%
Hell exists solely for the French when they die.
33
27%
I'm just here for the ponies.
29
24%
 
Total votes : 122

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Of the Free Socialist Territories
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Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:47 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Who said this?


Jesus.


Catechism 82 of the Roman Catholic Church is not Jeshua.
Don't be deceived when our Revolution has finally been stamped out and they tell you things are better now even if there's no poverty to see, because the poverty's been hidden...even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which these new industries foist on you, and even if it seems to you that "you never had so much" - that is only the slogan of those who have much more than you.

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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:48 pm

Menassa wrote:The Original 24 books of the Bible do not mention a Christian version of hell.... they speak of something known as Sheol... a dark bottomless chasm away from God... however, Jews believe in some sort of temporary punishment for your sins... indeed it is a fiery place.

I believe the Talmud says that one such punishment is angles batting your soul across the entire universe.

Lot of Religious threads today... for Purim?

This is why I like Jews, even the punishments are awesome. Yeah, getting batted by an angel sucks. But you get to see the entire universe! And you get "I was batted by an angel" bragging rights.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:48 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:I'm beginning to get a clearer picture here. You believe that the Church is infallible because it has divine authority passed on from Jesus to his disciples, who began the Church. You also reject the authority of any Church other than the Eastern Orthodox, including the Catholic and the Protestant Churches, correct?


I only reject the non-apostolic churches. Protestants aren't Christian, in my opinion. The Catholics, Orientals, Nestorians, and others are merely schismatic rather than heretical. I may disagree with certain doctrines of theirs, but I recognize them as Christian.

Well here's the problem. Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God, but not the successors of the disciples, thus rendering their successors' authority on The Bible illegitimate.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
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Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:49 pm

Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Jesus.


Catechism 82 of the Roman Catholic Church is not Jeshua.


No it isn't. Is there a reason you're mentioning that?
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:49 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Menassa wrote:The Original 24 books of the Bible do not mention a Christian version of hell.... they speak of something known as Sheol... a dark bottomless chasm away from God... however, Jews believe in some sort of temporary punishment for your sins... indeed it is a fiery place.

I believe the Talmud says that one such punishment is angles batting your soul across the entire universe.

Lot of Religious threads today... for Purim?

This is why I like Jews, even the punishments are awesome. Yeah, getting batted by an angel sucks. But you get to see the entire universe! And you get "I was batted by an angel" bragging rights.

Then you get to go to heaven....
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
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Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:50 pm

Cill Airne wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Who said this?

The quotes come from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

God didn't write that, men did.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Cill Airne
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Postby Cill Airne » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:51 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
Catechism 82 of the Roman Catholic Church is not Jeshua.


No it isn't. Is there a reason you're mentioning that?

My quotes that were spoiled did indeed come from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. My first statement however, did not.
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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:51 pm

Menassa wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:This is why I like Jews, even the punishments are awesome. Yeah, getting batted by an angel sucks. But you get to see the entire universe! And you get "I was batted by an angel" bragging rights.

Then you get to go to heaven....

Awesomer and awesomer. It's kind of a pity that I just don't believe.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:52 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
I only reject the non-apostolic churches. Protestants aren't Christian, in my opinion. The Catholics, Orientals, Nestorians, and others are merely schismatic rather than heretical. I may disagree with certain doctrines of theirs, but I recognize them as Christian.

Well here's the problem. Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God, but not the successors of the disciples, thus rendering their successors' authority on The Bible illegitimate.


Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God knowing they were fallible men and yet assured Peter that the gates of Hell would not stand against the Church He built upon Peter. If Peter and the others were good enough to warrant Jesus' trust, then assuming that they weren't good enough to pass that authority down is to call Jesus a liar. He isn't a liar. He is God.
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Cill Airne
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Postby Cill Airne » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:52 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Cill Airne wrote:The quotes come from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

God didn't write that, men did.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of the principles of the Christian religion - it is the Church's "this is what we believe in and why". It is explaining why and is not the source of authority.
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:53 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Menassa wrote:Then you get to go to heaven....

Awesomer and awesomer. It's kind of a pity that I just don't believe.

Oh... you don't need to 'Be Jewish' to reap Jewish rewards... you just need the 7 laws...
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
The NS Steam Thread
Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:54 pm

Cill Airne wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
No it isn't. Is there a reason you're mentioning that?

My quotes that were spoiled did indeed come from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. My first statement however, did not.


I know. But Jesus did assure Peter that He'd build the Church upon him and that nothing would destroy it. Which implies that, since Peter was only a man (a fallen man), the others who shared in Peters divinely granted authority would be able to maintain the Church. Jesus said that shiznit.
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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:57 pm

Menassa wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:Awesomer and awesomer. It's kind of a pity that I just don't believe.

Oh... you don't need to 'Be Jewish' to reap Jewish rewards... you just need the 7 laws...

What are those?
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:58 pm

Distruzio wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:Well here's the problem. Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God, but not the successors of the disciples, thus rendering their successors' authority on The Bible illegitimate.


Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God knowing they were fallible men and yet assured Peter that the gates of Hell Hades would not stand against the Church He built upon Peter. If Peter and the others were good enough to warrant Jesus' trust, then assuming that they weren't good enough to pass that authority down is to call Jesus a liar. He isn't a liar. He is God.

Ficks'd.

Also, he gave trust to them to spread the Word of God, not to appoint successors to spread the Word in their stead. He never states that their successors should spread the Word of God, just the disciples themselves.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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DogDoo 7
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Postby DogDoo 7 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:00 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Menassa wrote:Oh... you don't need to 'Be Jewish' to reap Jewish rewards... you just need the 7 laws...

What are those?



Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law
Just ask this scientician--Troy McClure

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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:00 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Menassa wrote:Oh... you don't need to 'Be Jewish' to reap Jewish rewards... you just need the 7 laws...

What are those?

7 Noahide Laws
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
The NS Steam Thread
Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 pm

Cill Airne wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:God didn't write that, men did.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of the principles of the Christian religion - it is the Church's "this is what we believe in and why". It is explaining why and is not the source of authority.

You stated that the Church is authorised by God. I want some evidence.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Cill Airne
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Postby Cill Airne » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:08 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Cill Airne wrote:The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of the principles of the Christian religion - it is the Church's "this is what we believe in and why". It is explaining why and is not the source of authority.

You stated that the Church is authorised by God. I want some evidence.

Distruzio has already covered that, however. Authority was given to Peter and he built God's Church. Peter's successors had his authority passed down to them.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:11 pm

Cill Airne wrote:
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:You stated that the Church is authorised by God. I want some evidence.

Distruzio has already covered that, however. Authority was given to Peter and he built God's Church. Peter's successors had his authority passed down to them.

Illegitimately. Jesus never granted authority to Peter's successors.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:11 pm

Menassa wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:What are those?

7 Noahide Laws

Guilty of blasphemy and probably sexual immorality.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:12 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:

Guilty of blasphemy and probably sexual immorality.

It's interesting to note... I believe there is a debate of what constitutes sexual immorality for Gentiles... Homosexuality is a part of the debate... but that's neither here nor there... we should get back to talking about Gehnoim
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
The NS Steam Thread
Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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DogDoo 7
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Postby DogDoo 7 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:13 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:

Guilty of blasphemy and probably sexual immorality.


You've never eaten live sweet shrimp at a sushi restaurant?
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Founded: Feb 22, 2012
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:15 pm

Menassa wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:What are those?

7 Noahide Laws

Guilty of idolatry and blasphemy.

Mostly the latter.
Last edited by Gilgamesh on Mon Aru 17, 2467 BC 10:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Call me Knox.
Biblical Authorship
God is Malevolent.
Bible Inaccuracies
Ifreann wrote:Knox: /ˈɡɪl.ɡə.mɛʃ/
Impeach Enlil, legalise dreaming, mortality is theft. GILGAMESH 2474 BC

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Distruzio
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Founded: Feb 28, 2011
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Postby Distruzio » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:17 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Jesus gave authority to the disciples to teach the Word of God knowing they were fallible men and yet assured Peter that the gates of Hell Hades would not stand against the Church He built upon Peter. If Peter and the others were good enough to warrant Jesus' trust, then assuming that they weren't good enough to pass that authority down is to call Jesus a liar. He isn't a liar. He is God.

Ficks'd.

Also, he gave trust to them to spread the Word of God, not to appoint successors to spread the Word in their stead. He never states that their successors should spread the Word of God, just the disciples themselves.


Like I said in my threads, there is nothing in the Bible about worship. Therefore, the Church is needed to show people how to worship appropriately. The very limitations of Jesus' instructions that you point out here are the very reasons for Holy Tradition, the Patriarchal Consensus, and the Bible. All three are necessary to worship correctly. Otherwise, one falls into heresy.
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:18 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:

Guilty of idolatry and blasphemy.

Mostly the latter.

What Idols have you worshiped?
-NS's one and only Tanna!
Radical Monotheist
Their hollow inheritance.
This is my god and I shall exalt him
The NS Steam Thread
Jewish Discussion Thread בְּ
"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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