Are Republicans holding the US back?

[Die Oranje-Vrystaat]

A Supreme Court judge said it was unconstitutional. Years later, it's still here and those judges have forgotten.

1 Supreme court judge said it was unconstitutional does not a law make or break. It is when you have 5 Supreme Court judges make the ruling that such a law is unconstitutional that the law needs to be removed.

It was a ruling. I doubt it gets more legitimate than that.

[Terraius]

I agree that Tennessee is a rather shitty place overall for gays and it's not right. However, I think there is a fine line between a state that does not have gay marriage and a state that actively seeks to persecute them via the methods Tennessee has instated.

I think we need to take a step back; yes, everyone should be able to marry if they want. Im all for that. So long as my particular religion is not forced to marry gays, then Im all for allowing them to marry, secularly in a union and religiously if a specific church or denomination wants too.

However, I simply cannot get on board that not allowing gays to marry is treating them sub human. Thats a far stretch and offensive in many respects. Slavery was a mass display of subhuman treatment. Marriage? No.

Noone is harmed from gays getting married. Noone is harmed from gays not getting married. Ultimately its a rights dispute over a piece of paper which is far, far, far, FAR, from being considered an issue that treats people subhuman.

The measures in Tennessee, I would agree however, borderline oppressive and should be repealed immediately. But simply the state of not being allowed to marry, while pretentious and unjust, is certainly not akin to slavery. Lets be realistic here for a one minute.

Actually people are harmed by not allowing gays to marry. Consider the fact that If I have a foreign partner of the same sex, I cannot have them become a US citizen as easily as if I had a foreign partner who was of the opposite sex. Similarly I cannot visit my dying partner in a hospital, nor make medical decisions for them. More than that, I and my child cannot benefit from my partner should they die. These are most definitely harmful.

Im sorry, but I still find it offensive and a stretch that gays would considered their plight equal to slavery or something. I agree its unfortunate and its not right, and its overall a shitty situation. Although I would think that in a few of those situations there are work arounds; but still regardless I will again agree its simply inefficient and unjust.

[Terraius]

1 Supreme court judge said it was unconstitutional does not a law make or break. It is when you have 5 Supreme Court judges make the ruling that such a law is unconstitutional that the law needs to be removed.

It was a ruling. I doubt it gets more legitimate than that.

A ruling requires a case and majority consent to the ruling which didnt happen. Orders, Rulings, Merit Briefs, and Opinions are all different things, and there probably 10 other words I cant remember right now to describe the court giving their advice, but ultimately only an official majority ruling is truly binding in the sense of the word.

[Urmanian]

Im sorry, but I still find it offensive and a stretch that gays would considered their plight equal to slavery or something. I agree its unfortunate and its not right, and its overall a shitty situation, but over-exaggerating it is not going to win others to the cause.

Where was such a thing claimed? It certainly makes gays second-class citizens (as it deprives them of a fairly fundamental right that the rest of the population enjoys equally) and is a fucking disgrace to human dignity, but I don't think it was equated to slavery anywhere on this thread or elsewhere.

[Gauntleted Fist]

However, I simply cannot get on board that not allowing gays to marry is treating them sub human. Thats a far stretch and offensive in many respects. Slavery was a mass display of subhuman treatment. Marriage? No.

Noone is harmed from gays getting married. Noone is harmed from gays not getting married. Ultimately its a rights dispute over a piece of paper which is far, far, far, FAR, from being considered an issue that treats people subhuman.

How is telling someone, through the power of the federal government (The entity built to protect and serve us, the citizens.), that they are not equal according to the law to other citizens because they do not love someone who is of the opposite sex in any way NOT treating them like second-class citizens?

It is literally the most powerful institution on earth treating them like dirt. I couldn't think of any other way to make it more clear that gays are, in fact, sub-human scum not worthy of being treated like real American citizens that would be more effective than enshrining it in fucking law.

[Neutraligon]

It was a ruling. I doubt it gets more legitimate than that.

A ruling requires a case and majority consent to the ruling which didnt happen. Orders, Rulings, Merit Briefs, and Opinions are all different things, and there probably 10 other words I cant remember right now to describe the court giving their advice, but ultimately only an official majority ruling is truly binding in the sense of the word.

But hopefully will happen soon, since SCOTUS is currently hearing evidence.

By the way, yay for the Violence against women act for passing with 87 Republican votes. 286-138

[Terraius]

Im sorry, but I still find it offensive and a stretch that gays would considered their plight equal to slavery or something. I agree its unfortunate and its not right, and its overall a shitty situation, but over-exaggerating it is not going to win others to the cause.

Where was such a thing claimed? It certainly makes gays second-class citizens (as it deprives them of a fairly fundamental right that the rest of the population enjoys equally) and is a fucking disgrace to human dignity, but I don't think it was equated to slavery anywhere on this thread or elsewhere.

I was using it as an apples to oranges example. 'Disgrace to human dignity' is another one of these lamenting over exaggerations.

Its a piece of paper that has a 50% chance of failing. You. Should. Take. A. Breath.

Gays not being allowed to vote, or their basic constitutional freedoms, being beaten or persecuted (Such as in Tennessee) a disgrace to human dignity? Absolutely yes.

Not having access to a sado-machistic union that you will probably regret? No, not at all.

[Urmanian]

Not having access to a sado-machistic union that you will probably regret? No, not at all.

Your attitude towards marriage is irrelevant. The objective situation is this, gays are not allowed to marry while the rest of the population enjoys this right equally. Thus gays are discriminated, that is, are considered by the law of the land as not equal to their straight peers, and treated as second-class citizens. That's pretty disgraceful if I do say so myself.

[Terraius]

However, I simply cannot get on board that not allowing gays to marry is treating them sub human. Thats a far stretch and offensive in many respects. Slavery was a mass display of subhuman treatment. Marriage? No.

Noone is harmed from gays getting married. Noone is harmed from gays not getting married. Ultimately its a rights dispute over a piece of paper which is far, far, far, FAR, from being considered an issue that treats people subhuman.

How is telling someone, through the power of the federal government (The entity built to protect and serve us, the citizens.), that they are not equal according to the law to other citizens because they do not love someone who is of the opposite sex in any way NOT treating them like second-class citizens?

It is literally the most powerful institution on earth treating them like dirt. I couldn't think of any other way to make it more clear that gays are, in fact, sub-human scum not worthy of being treated like real American citizens that would be more effective than enshrining it in fucking law.

I seem to have forgotten or missed the memo the Government released letting us know that gays are not equal and second class.

Your overexageration, once agian, is not going to win anyone over. By virtue of reason Ive already decided I support gay marriage, if not becuase I believe you deserve to suffer just like everyone else, but also because Im sick and tired of hearing about it, and overrall, it is injust that you are denied the legal and financial benefits that married couples are entitled too. But trying to whine like your treated like dirt is ludicrous on a whole new scale of bullshit.

If you want to know what being treated like a true second class citizen was, go watch a few documentaries about African Americans and Women in the 20's to the 60's and then sit back and say 'Well I really dont have it that god damn bad'.

Gay marriage is inevitable, whether state or federally, so I suggest you spend the time and energy you exert fawning your struggle against your heterosexual oppressors to relaxing and waiting out the next two years or so.

[Urmanian]

How is denying homosexuals a fundamental right that the rest of the population enjoys equally not treating them as not equal and second class?

[Terraius]

Not having access to a sado-machistic union that you will probably regret? No, not at all.

Your attitude towards marriage is irrelevant. The objective situation is this, gays are not allowed to marry while the rest of the population enjoys this right equally. Thus gays are discriminated, that is, are considered by the law of the land as not equal to their straight peers, and treated as second-class citizens. That's pretty disgraceful if I do say so myself.

I understand that SCOTUS ruled marriage a 'right', but I simply cannot get on board with considered secular marriage an unalienable right like we consider freedom of speech sacrosanct. I assure you mankind existed and prospered long before marriage, and we will continue to do so if it disappeared tomorrow, so once again, relax and take a breath.

Unjust, and perhaps disgraceful, I will agree. But by no means will I sign off on this 'second class citizen' nonsense. Every single group these days wants to victimize themselves for one reason or another. I have at this point become totally unimpressed and bored with the whole notion. Gay or not.

Even White (WASP) people are playing this 'second class citizen' card nowadays. Fucking seriously, no group in the US has any original creativity, its just one giant repeated tear jerking speech after another.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I seem to have forgotten or missed the memo the Government released letting us know that gays are not equal and second class.

Yes, you did miss it. It was called DOMA, and it was sent out in 1996.

Your overexageration, once agian, is not going to win anyone over. By virtue of reason Ive already decided I support gay marriage, if not becuase I believe you deserve to suffer just like everyone else, but also because Im sick and tired of hearing about it, and overrall, it is injust that you are denied the legal and financial benefits that married couples are entitled too. But trying to whine like your treated like dirt is ludicrous on a whole new scale of bullshit.

Sorry you don't understand the issue, then.

If you want to know what being treated like a true second class citizen was, go watch a few documentaries about African Americans and Women in the 20's to the 60's and then sit back and say 'Well I really dont have it that god damn bad'.

I fucking live in Alabama. I don't have to look up documentaries on it. I can just fucking walk outside and see it still happening. Except now it's not water hoses and dogs. It's "drugs in cars" and "resisting arrest".

Gay marriage is inevitable, whether state or federally, so I suggest you spend the time and energy you exert fawning your struggle against your heterosexual oppressors to relaxing and waiting out the next two years or so.

Sorry, no.

Also I'm not gay.

[Terraius]

How is denying homosexuals a fundamental right that the rest of the population enjoys equally not treating them as not equal and second class?

Because I promise you marriage despite what our government tells is not fundamental to the freedom or survival of the human race.

We prospered before marriage, and we will propser if it disappears tomorrow.

RELAX.

I know this is such a hard concept to get, but I promise you, we will live on and fight!

[Neutraligon]

How is telling someone, through the power of the federal government (The entity built to protect and serve us, the citizens.), that they are not equal according to the law to other citizens because they do not love someone who is of the opposite sex in any way NOT treating them like second-class citizens?

It is literally the most powerful institution on earth treating them like dirt. I couldn't think of any other way to make it more clear that gays are, in fact, sub-human scum not worthy of being treated like real American citizens that would be more effective than enshrining it in fucking law.

I seem to have forgotten or missed the memo the Government released letting us know that gays are not equal and second class.

Your overexageration, once agian, is not going to win anyone over. By virtue of reason Ive already decided I support gay marriage, if not becuase I believe you deserve to suffer just like everyone else, but also because Im sick and tired of hearing about it, and overrall, it is injust that you are denied the legal and financial benefits that married couples are entitled too. But trying to whine like your treated like dirt is ludicrous on a whole new scale of bullshit.

If you want to know what being treated like a true second class citizen was, go watch a few documentaries about African Americans and Women in the 20's to the 60's and then sit back and say 'Well I really dont have it that god damn bad'.

Gay marriage is inevitable, whether state or federally, so I suggest you spend the time and energy you exert fawning your struggle against your heterosexual oppressors to relaxing and waiting out the next two years or so.

Why should we wait, Why should I have to wait for my partner to become a US citizen simply since she has the same sex I have. Why should I wait for benefits that I would have should my partner have been male. Why should I not be allowed to make medical decisions for my partner,why should I be prevented from staying with my partner when she is in a hospital. The fact of the matter is lgbt partners are treated differently in front of the law than those who are of opposite sex. This is why we say we are treated as second class citizens, because to put it simply we do not have the same rights as our non lgbt partners. We are treated like dirt, school districts have laws preventing people from stopping bullying, they force teachers to out students to their parents, even if the parent would harm the child if they knew. to be treated as different in front of the law simply because I am lgbt is being treated as a second class citizen, because it is treating me as different.

[Neutraligon]

How is denying homosexuals a fundamental right that the rest of the population enjoys equally not treating them as not equal and second class?

Because I promise you marriage despite what our government tells is not fundamental to the freedom or survival of the human race.

We prospered before marriage, and we will propser if it disappears tomorrow.

RELAX.

I know this is such a hard concept to get, but I promise you, we will live on and fight!

Actually, SCOTUS has declared marriage as a right. If marriage with all its legal benefits were to disappear tomorrow there would be issues, since the benefits of marriage go beyond just the two consenting individuals.

[Terraius]

I seem to have forgotten or missed the memo the Government released letting us know that gays are not equal and second class.

Yes, you did miss it. It was called DOMA, and it was sent out in 1996.

Your overexageration, once agian, is not going to win anyone over. By virtue of reason Ive already decided I support gay marriage, if not becuase I believe you deserve to suffer just like everyone else, but also because Im sick and tired of hearing about it, and overrall, it is injust that you are denied the legal and financial benefits that married couples are entitled too. But trying to whine like your treated like dirt is ludicrous on a whole new scale of bullshit.

Sorry you don't understand the issue, then.

If you want to know what being treated like a true second class citizen was, go watch a few documentaries about African Americans and Women in the 20's to the 60's and then sit back and say 'Well I really dont have it that god damn bad'.

I fucking live in Alabama. I don't have to look up documentaries on it. I can just fucking walk outside and see it still happening. Except now it's not water hoses and dogs. It's "drugs in cars" and "resisting arrest".

Gay marriage is inevitable, whether state or federally, so I suggest you spend the time and energy you exert fawning your struggle against your heterosexual oppressors to relaxing and waiting out the next two years or so.

Sorry, no.

Also I'm not gay.

1- DOMA said Gay marriage was unconstitutional. That is far from saying that 'gays are not equal and second class'
2- Sorry I dont agree with your opinion, that tends to happen, believe it or not. That does not mean I dont 'understand' the issue.
3- Your perception of the police as a modern day racist gang are your own problems to deal with.
4- 'Sorry, no' is such a compelling and cited argument that Im simply forced to relent and give my hand. Woe unto me.

[Terraius]

Because I promise you marriage despite what our government tells is not fundamental to the freedom or survival of the human race.

We prospered before marriage, and we will propser if it disappears tomorrow.

RELAX.

I know this is such a hard concept to get, but I promise you, we will live on and fight!

Actually, SCOTUS has declared marriage as a right. If marriage with all its legal benefits were to disappear tomorrow there would be issues, since the benefits of marriage go beyond just the two consenting individuals.

I know, I said that in my last post or so that the government/SCOTUS has recognized marriage as a right.

They can say tomorrow its every person's right to own a bazooka and a interbred Tiger-Raptor mount that shoots lasers out of its eyes as a human right, that doesnt mean Im going to think its a stretch. (The bazooka part. The right to own a laser-eyed Tiger-Raptor is God given, if you ask me, and fuck all the atheists that say otherwise.)

[Neutraligon]

Yes, you did miss it. It was called DOMA, and it was sent out in 1996.


Sorry you don't understand the issue, then.


I fucking live in Alabama. I don't have to look up documentaries on it. I can just fucking walk outside and see it still happening. Except now it's not water hoses and dogs. It's "drugs in cars" and "resisting arrest".


Sorry, no.

Also I'm not gay.

1- DOMA said Gay marriage was unconstitutional. That is far from saying that 'gays are not equal and second class'
2- Sorry I dont agree with your opinion, that tends to happen, believe it or not. That does not mean I dont 'understand' the issue.
3- Your perception of the police as a modern day racist gang are your own problems to deal with.
4- 'Sorry, no' is such a compelling and cited argument that Im simply forced to relent and give my hand. Woe unto me.

1-So, just because I am treated differently under the law due to my having a partner who is the same sex as I am, does not mean I am treated as a second class citizen and am not equal...wow

[Neutraligon]

Actually, SCOTUS has declared marriage as a right. If marriage with all its legal benefits were to disappear tomorrow there would be issues, since the benefits of marriage go beyond just the two consenting individuals.

I know, I said that in my last post or so that the government/SCOTUS has recognized marriage as a right.

They can say tomorrow its every person's right to own a bazooka and a interbred Tiger-Raptor mount that shoots lasers out of its eyes as a human right, that doesnt mean Im going to think its a stretch. (The bazooka part. The right to own a laser-eyed Tiger-Raptor is God given, if you ask me, and fuck all the atheists that say otherwise.)

So what does the second thing you said have anything to do with my comment?

[Terraius]

1- DOMA said Gay marriage was unconstitutional. That is far from saying that 'gays are not equal and second class'
2- Sorry I dont agree with your opinion, that tends to happen, believe it or not. That does not mean I dont 'understand' the issue.
3- Your perception of the police as a modern day racist gang are your own problems to deal with.
4- 'Sorry, no' is such a compelling and cited argument that Im simply forced to relent and give my hand. Woe unto me.

1-So, just because I am treated differently under the law due to my having a partner who is the same sex as I am, does not mean I am treated as a second class citizen and am not equal...wow

Noone is making you not have a partner. You simply are not directly able to get a piece of paper that says 'X and Y paid us a bunch of money for this marriage license.'

You act like not being able to marry is preventing you from having a romantic or loving relationship with your partner. People have been fucking and dating since mankind first came about, before and after marriage should the day come. Stop stretching the point.

[Terraius]

I know, I said that in my last post or so that the government/SCOTUS has recognized marriage as a right.

They can say tomorrow its every person's right to own a bazooka and a interbred Tiger-Raptor mount that shoots lasers out of its eyes as a human right, that doesnt mean Im going to think its a stretch. (The bazooka part. The right to own a laser-eyed Tiger-Raptor is God given, if you ask me, and fuck all the atheists that say otherwise.)

So what does the second thing you said have anything to do with my comment?

That I do not believe marriage between ANY person is a fundamental human right, and the court could say tomorrow that its everyone's fundamental right to own a cannon, and I would still disagree.

SCOTUS also said it was the right of white slave-owners to own slaves. I disagree with them over that as well, believe it or not.

[Gauntleted Fist]

1- DOMA said Gay marriage was unconstitutional.

No, it fucking did not. Because Congress doesn't say whether or not anything is constitutional. That would be the job of the Supreme Court. Nice understanding you have of our government here. No wonder you don't understand what DOMA was. You don't even know hour our government works!

That is far from saying that 'gays are not equal and second class'

"Nah, you're equal to us! You just can't marry the person you love or have any of the benefits of us straight people! You know, us straight people who are the real citizens."

2- Sorry I dont agree with your opinion, that tends to happen, believe it or not. That does not mean I dont 'understand' the issue.

It's very obvious you really do not understand what the issues is if you cannot even see that gays in the United States are being deprived of the same privileges and rights that straight people currently enjoy.

3- Your perception of the police as a modern day racist gang are your own problems to deal with.

Oh, no, Alabama certainly isn't racist anymore, guys. We haven't gone from Jim Crow to Juan Crow with out new "immigration laws" that we have no right to pass or that lead to excessive racial profiling of Asian and Mexican immigrants at all. None of this is happening here, no, sir. Not at fucking all.

4- 'Sorry, no' is such a compelling and cited argument that Im simply forced to relent and give my hand. Woe unto me.

You were telling me to stop doing something. You weren't making a fucking argument. You just said "Sit down, shut up, and stop bitching." My reply to that is "Sorry, no." If you like, I can reply more forcefully. Like "How about you sit down, shut up, and get the fuck out of a discussion about gay marriage in the US if it pisses you off so much, eh?"

[Urmanian]

Noone is making you not have a partner. You simply are not directly able to get a piece of paper that says 'X and Y paid us a bunch of money for this marriage license.'

...and the numerous legal protections and rights that come with the paper.

[Priory Academy USSR]

1- DOMA said Gay marriage was unconstitutional. That is far from saying that 'gays are not equal and second class'
2- Sorry I dont agree with your opinion, that tends to happen, believe it or not. That does not mean I dont 'understand' the issue.
3- Your perception of the police as a modern day racist gang are your own problems to deal with.
4- 'Sorry, no' is such a compelling and cited argument that Im simply forced to relent and give my hand. Woe unto me.

1-So, just because I am treated differently under the law due to my having a partner who is the same sex as I am, does not mean I am treated as a second class citizen and am not equal...wow

Homosexual good! Heterosexual BETTER!

[Neutraligon]

Noone is making you not have a partner. You simply are not directly able to get a piece of paper that says 'X and Y paid us a bunch of money for this marriage license.'

...and the numerous legal protections and rights that come with the paper.

Including the fact that I cannot bring my partner to the US to become a US citizen; That I have to wait for that person to become a US citizen rather than having a much shorter time period. Screw that.