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Are Republicans holding the US back?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Are the Republicans holding back the social and economic progress of the United States?

Yes
513
58%
No
242
27%
Yes and No (Specify?)
117
13%
Undecided
15
2%
 
Total votes : 887

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Libertarian California
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Postby Libertarian California » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:45 pm

Frisivisia wrote:If the government that governs closer to the people is best, why States, and not municipalities? Why not abolish government and have everyone self-govern?


Well, in an ideal world...
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Die Oranje-Vrystaat
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Postby Die Oranje-Vrystaat » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:51 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Ok, tell me when Nebraskans tried to tell you how to run your state.

Many Nebraskans are Republicans. The Republican Party has tried to institute an amendment to the Constitution to define marriage as only between one man and one woman. That would override any state law allowing same-sex marriage.


Okay, we solved that locally. Refer to Article I-29 of the Nebraska State Constitution. I think we are just preserving our states right to have such an amendment, rather than force other states to adopt our stance. You've got civil unions in California and such. We're not attacking those.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:58 pm

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Many Nebraskans are Republicans. The Republican Party has tried to institute an amendment to the Constitution to define marriage as only between one man and one woman. That would override any state law allowing same-sex marriage.


Okay, we solved that locally. Refer to Article I-29 of the Nebraska State Constitution. I think we are just preserving our states right to have such an amendment, rather than force other states to adopt our stance. You've got civil unions in California and such. We're not attacking those.

Nebraskans do if they support the Marriage Amendment. Not you, perhaps, but some. Passage of that, which I admit is remote, would force policies supported by not a few Nebraskans on the rest of the country. So be the bigger person and urge your fellow Nebraska Republicans to stop supporting national measures to define marriage.
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Trotskylvania
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Postby Trotskylvania » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:59 pm

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Many Nebraskans are Republicans. The Republican Party has tried to institute an amendment to the Constitution to define marriage as only between one man and one woman. That would override any state law allowing same-sex marriage.


Okay, we solved that locally. Refer to Article I-29 of the Nebraska State Constitution. I think we are just preserving our states right to have such an amendment, rather than force other states to adopt our stance. You've got civil unions in California and such. We're not attacking those.

States have no rights. They have duties to their citizens. The most important of which is that the law must not be capricious, arbitrary and discriminatory. Bans on same sex marriage are all of the above.
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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:11 pm

Terran Empire wrote:I dont think its just the Republicants... I think its also the Democraps. It pretty much everyone.

Using those and similar derogatory names for political parties is considered flamebaiting on this site. Knock it off. Unofficial warning.

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Die Oranje-Vrystaat
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Founded: Feb 15, 2013
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Postby Die Oranje-Vrystaat » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:12 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Okay, we solved that locally. Refer to Article I-29 of the Nebraska State Constitution. I think we are just preserving our states right to have such an amendment, rather than force other states to adopt our stance. You've got civil unions in California and such. We're not attacking those.

Nebraskans do if they support the Marriage Amendment. Not you, perhaps, but some. Passage of that, which I admit is remote, would force policies supported by not a few Nebraskans on the rest of the country. So be the bigger person and urge your fellow Nebraska Republicans to stop supporting national measures to define marriage.


And how about we come to a consensus to agree to not screw with each other's policies? Wouldn't that just be a win-win? Besides, an amendment banning same sex marriage will never pass nationally.
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Die Oranje-Vrystaat
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Postby Die Oranje-Vrystaat » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:15 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Okay, we solved that locally. Refer to Article I-29 of the Nebraska State Constitution. I think we are just preserving our states right to have such an amendment, rather than force other states to adopt our stance. You've got civil unions in California and such. We're not attacking those.

States have no rights. They have duties to their citizens. The most important of which is that the law must not be capricious, arbitrary and discriminatory. Bans on same sex marriage are all of the above.


When seventy percent of Nebraskans backed a ban on gay marriage and we have one of lowest gay populations in the country, I believe the public opposes gay marriage. So what, we take the undemocratic route?
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Terran Empire
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Postby Terran Empire » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:33 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Terran Empire wrote:I dont think its just the Republicants... I think its also the Democraps. It pretty much everyone.

Using those and similar derogatory names for political parties is considered flamebaiting on this site. Knock it off. Unofficial warning.

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Trotskylvania
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Postby Trotskylvania » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:27 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:States have no rights. They have duties to their citizens. The most important of which is that the law must not be capricious, arbitrary and discriminatory. Bans on same sex marriage are all of the above.


When seventy percent of Nebraskans backed a ban on gay marriage and we have one of lowest gay populations in the country, I believe the public opposes gay marriage. So what, we take the undemocratic route?

Yes. Gays getting married harms no one, and continued prohibitions against it only serve to reinforce bigotry against gays and warp the moral compass of the people living there by normalizing oppression. The people of Nebraska will get over it, and in fact will probably thank us in the future for dragging them towards the light.
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Die Oranje-Vrystaat
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Postby Die Oranje-Vrystaat » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:04 am

Trotskylvania wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
When seventy percent of Nebraskans backed a ban on gay marriage and we have one of lowest gay populations in the country, I believe the public opposes gay marriage. So what, we take the undemocratic route?

Yes. Gays getting married harms no one, and continued prohibitions against it only serve to reinforce bigotry against gays and warp the moral compass of the people living there by normalizing oppression. The people of Nebraska will get over it, and in fact will probably thank us in the future for dragging them towards the light.


Dragging toward the light? My, but that sure is arrogant. Nebraska will always be a staunchly conservative state. You make it sound as if we're dragging homosexuals from their homes in the night, holding them in jail indefinitely. The "moral compass?" Yes, well our moral compass points against gay marriage. I'm not going to lie, people vote with their Bibles here. And you know what? It's not hurting California one bit. Hey, love Nebraska or leave it. You think our laws are oppressive? Well we think California gun laws are oppressive. Works both ways.
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Valtakuntia
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Founded: Dec 10, 2012
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Postby Valtakuntia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:17 am

Lemanrussland wrote:
Valtakuntia wrote:
xkcd.

http://xkcd.com/661/

Funny, but the two party system is a serious problem, it stifles democracy quite a lot and makes the vast majority of people unhappy. The reason it's there is because our voting system is quite old and outdated (hardly surprising for the country with the oldest Constitution still in force in the world). If we switched off of "first past the post" for something more modern like mixed member proportional representation (what the Federal Republic of Germany uses), we would have more political diversity in this country.


I agree, except I thought San Marino's constitution was the oldest.
Hallo.

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Bottle
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Postby Bottle » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:21 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:Yes. Gays getting married harms no one, and continued prohibitions against it only serve to reinforce bigotry against gays and warp the moral compass of the people living there by normalizing oppression. The people of Nebraska will get over it, and in fact will probably thank us in the future for dragging them towards the light.


Dragging toward the light? My, but that sure is arrogant. Nebraska will always be a staunchly conservative state. You make it sound as if we're dragging homosexuals from their homes in the night, holding them in jail indefinitely. The "moral compass?" Yes, well our moral compass points against gay marriage.

And to us, that sounds precisely the same as if you said your moral compass points against interracial marriage, or against allowing married women to own property, or anything else. It's not arrogant to note the simple truth, which is that the values you describe are on the wrong side of history. We have hundreds, if not thousands of years of progress to support the hypothesis that you will, inevitably, be dragged toward progress, and your children will look back on your bigotry with the same contempt that current generations turn on those who didn't let black people drink from the same fountains as whites.

EDIT: Oh, and as for your suggestion that the government of Nebraska be left to treat its citizens as shittily as it wants? Nope. The rights of the people are more important than the fee-fees of the dwindling minority of bigots in power. But please, do continue to throw tantrums about it, it's charming to watch you lose.
Last edited by Bottle on Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:34 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
Because I should be able to expect to be treated like a human fucking being in ALL 50 states, as opposed to less than half, as currently stands.


You are treated as a human being, what are you talking about? If you want to feel victimised just go to Uganda or somewhere. I meant Nebraska people will never live as California people do, so just stop trying to put your policies into our laws.


I live in Tennessee. Not only is my right to marry a man, should I want to, being suppressed, but there are strong voices calling for people to have a right to bully me for who I am at school, and for school counselors to be required to out LGBT students to their parents, even if said parents would abuse their children for it.

How these things are not dehumanizing is beyond comprehension.

Its a matter of common fucking decency. California, New York, Tennessee, Nebraska, it shouldn't fucking matter.
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Bottle
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Postby Bottle » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:37 am

Grenartia wrote:
Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
You are treated as a human being, what are you talking about? If you want to feel victimised just go to Uganda or somewhere. I meant Nebraska people will never live as California people do, so just stop trying to put your policies into our laws.


I live in Tennessee. Not only is my right to marry a man, should I want to, being suppressed, but there are strong voices calling for people to have a right to bully me for who I am at school, and for school counselors to be required to out LGBT students to their parents, even if said parents would abuse their children for it.

How these things are not dehumanizing is beyond comprehension.

Its a matter of common fucking decency. California, New York, Tennessee, Nebraska, it shouldn't fucking matter.

Hang in there, bro. The reason people like him are begging for us all to stop pushing social justice is because they know they're losing. Human dignity will be respected, even places like Tennessee and Nebraska, we're just having to mop up a lot of bigot-piddle on the way to achieving that.

And, in the mean time, I strongly urge you to take your talents and money and move to one of the more progressive states as soon as possible. Massachusetts is more than happy to drain all the intelligent and capable employees and businesses from the Bible Belt. :)
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:41 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:States have no rights. They have duties to their citizens. The most important of which is that the law must not be capricious, arbitrary and discriminatory. Bans on same sex marriage are all of the above.


When seventy percent of Nebraskans backed a ban on gay marriage and we have one of lowest gay populations in the country, I believe the public opposes gay marriage. So what, we take the undemocratic route?


Tyranny by majority is a shitty thing.

If 70% of Nebraskans supported reinstating slavery, should it be allowed?
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:41 am

Bottle wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I live in Tennessee. Not only is my right to marry a man, should I want to, being suppressed, but there are strong voices calling for people to have a right to bully me for who I am at school, and for school counselors to be required to out LGBT students to their parents, even if said parents would abuse their children for it.

How these things are not dehumanizing is beyond comprehension.

Its a matter of common fucking decency. California, New York, Tennessee, Nebraska, it shouldn't fucking matter.

Hang in there, bro. The reason people like him are begging for us all to stop pushing social justice is because they know they're losing. Human dignity will be respected, even places like Tennessee and Nebraska, we're just having to mop up a lot of bigot-piddle on the way to achieving that.

And, in the mean time, I strongly urge you to take your talents and money and move to one of the more progressive states as soon as possible. Massachusetts is more than happy to drain all the intelligent and capable employees and businesses from the Bible Belt. :)

The trouble with draining the brains out of the Bible Belt is that we'll never get them sorted out. I'd almost encourage bright people to move there, as difficult as that might be to take, so they can smarten up the gene pool.
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Urmanian
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Postby Urmanian » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:42 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:And you know what? It's not hurting California one bit.

It's hurting human dignity everywhere tbh. Also, states rights mean nothing before human rights, nor should human rights be put up to vote of a majority. I long for the day when a blanket federal legalization of gay marriage may be put forward in the United States, and bigots would not be able to do anything about it (yes, I do not live in the U.S. even if I feel strongly about it - cry me some, I support respect for human dignity everywhere).

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:43 am

Bottle wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I live in Tennessee. Not only is my right to marry a man, should I want to, being suppressed, but there are strong voices calling for people to have a right to bully me for who I am at school, and for school counselors to be required to out LGBT students to their parents, even if said parents would abuse their children for it.

How these things are not dehumanizing is beyond comprehension.

Its a matter of common fucking decency. California, New York, Tennessee, Nebraska, it shouldn't fucking matter.

Hang in there, bro. The reason people like him are begging for us all to stop pushing social justice is because they know they're losing. Human dignity will be respected, even places like Tennessee and Nebraska, we're just having to mop up a lot of bigot-piddle on the way to achieving that.

And, in the mean time, I strongly urge you to take your talents and money and move to one of the more progressive states as soon as possible. Massachusetts is more than happy to drain all the intelligent and capable employees and businesses from the Bible Belt. :)


I would, but the climate of most ot the supportive states is too terrible for me. I can't stand the cold. Hell, compared to Louisiana (which is where I'd really want to live), even TN feels like the North Pole.
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Bottle
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Postby Bottle » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:50 am

Grenartia wrote:
Bottle wrote:Hang in there, bro. The reason people like him are begging for us all to stop pushing social justice is because they know they're losing. Human dignity will be respected, even places like Tennessee and Nebraska, we're just having to mop up a lot of bigot-piddle on the way to achieving that.

And, in the mean time, I strongly urge you to take your talents and money and move to one of the more progressive states as soon as possible. Massachusetts is more than happy to drain all the intelligent and capable employees and businesses from the Bible Belt. :)


I would, but the climate of most ot the supportive states is too terrible for me. I can't stand the cold. Hell, compared to Louisiana (which is where I'd really want to live), even TN feels like the North Pole.

I...cannot argue with that. Especially not at this time of year, when Boston features freezing rain and dirty slush.

Sadly, the Gay Agenda did not include plans for a weather control ray. :(
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Hades imperium
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Postby Hades imperium » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:53 am

may republicans are in that anti abortion anti gay neich. that neich is just dumb. their is nothing wrong with conservatism in its self. to much conservatism leads to stagnation a slow death. so does the other end too much liberal action would lead to rapid mass socalism, mass expendature, a decline in incentive for hard work. both far ends lead to failure. once must balance between the two.

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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:56 am

Hades imperium wrote:may republicans are in that anti abortion anti gay neich. that neich is just dumb. their is nothing wrong with conservatism in its self. to much conservatism leads to stagnation a slow death. so does the other end too much liberal action would lead to rapid mass socalism, mass expendature, a decline in incentive for hard work. both far ends lead to failure. once must balance between the two.


Me feel me am not smarter now that me read that.

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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:57 am

Bottle wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I would, but the climate of most ot the supportive states is too terrible for me. I can't stand the cold. Hell, compared to Louisiana (which is where I'd really want to live), even TN feels like the North Pole.

I...cannot argue with that. Especially not at this time of year, when Boston features freezing rain and dirty slush.

Sadly, the Gay Agenda did not include plans for a weather control ray. :(


Dammit! The Gay Mafia failed me! :P

I mean, New Orleans is fairly LGBT tolerant, compared to the rest of the state, but there's little to no legal protections.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:58 am

Khadgar wrote:
Hades imperium wrote:may republicans are in that anti abortion anti gay neich. that neich is just dumb. their is nothing wrong with conservatism in its self. to much conservatism leads to stagnation a slow death. so does the other end too much liberal action would lead to rapid mass socalism, mass expendature, a decline in incentive for hard work. both far ends lead to failure. once must balance between the two.


Me feel me am not smarter now that me read that.


My friend, this is getting sigged.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
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Khadgar
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Postby Khadgar » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:27 am

Grenartia wrote:
Khadgar wrote:
Me feel me am not smarter now that me read that.


My friend, this is getting sigged.


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The Nuclear Fist
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Postby The Nuclear Fist » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:11 am

Die Oranje-Vrystaat wrote:When seventy percent of Nebraskans backed a ban on gay marriage and we have one of lowest gay populations in the country, I believe the public opposes gay marriage. So what, we take the undemocratic route?

Yes, because civil rights should not be up for debate. The minority should not be oppressed just because the majority thinks it's a-okay. I thought you Americans learned this in the sixties.
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