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Your opinion of transgender people

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Cisgender, supportive of trans* people, recognize only two genders
112
21%
Cisgender, supportive of trans* people, recognize more than two genders
200
37%
Cisgender, unsupportive of trans* people
115
21%
Cisgender, indifferent
62
11%
Transgender, recognize only two genders
10
2%
Transgender, recognize more than two genders
47
9%
 
Total votes : 546

User avatar
Tavok
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 492
Founded: Feb 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tavok » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:32 pm

I don't understand why people care so much how other people define themselves. Until the use of tax money comes into question, there is no conceivable issue whatsoever.

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:33 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:only if you promise to quote combat liberalism during and after.

Alaje, combatting liberalism in fuzzy handcuffs since 2013. :p

Fuzzy handcuffs? Wouldn't leather and velcro straps serve you better? :P
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

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Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:34 pm

Tavok wrote:I don't understand why people care so much how other people define themselves. Until the use of tax money comes into question, there is no conceivable issue whatsoever.

But men in dresses! Women in tanks! Children with open minds!
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Ploon (Ancient)
Envoy
 
Posts: 312
Founded: Feb 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ploon (Ancient) » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:34 pm

When I was younger I frowned upon Gay people and Transgender. Now I've reached a point where I just don't really care anymore. I am supportive of gay rights and I would support a transgender person if I knew one. Let's just all get along. :hug:
I'm part of the Christian left. I support Gay marriage and Socialism.

User avatar
Zweite Alaje
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9551
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zweite Alaje » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:37 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Zweite Alaje wrote:Alaje, combatting liberalism in fuzzy handcuffs since 2013. :p

Fuzzy handcuffs? Wouldn't leather and velcro straps serve you better? :P

Oh lord, lol.

....I do like leather though.
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

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Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:38 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Tavok wrote:I don't understand why people care so much how other people define themselves. Until the use of tax money comes into question, there is no conceivable issue whatsoever.

But men in dresses! Women in tanks! Children with open minds!

Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

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Ploon (Ancient)
Envoy
 
Posts: 312
Founded: Feb 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ploon (Ancient) » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:39 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:But men in dresses! Women in tanks! Children with open minds!

Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!


But who would feed us men? :(
I'm part of the Christian left. I support Gay marriage and Socialism.

User avatar
Zottistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14894
Founded: Nov 26, 2011
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Zottistan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:39 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Zottistan wrote:I'm going to stop using those words. From now on, biologically male/female and psychologically man/woman/whatever else you may be.

:P We are all people here!

We can still categorize people without taking away from personhood.
Ireland, BCL and LLM, Training Barrister, Cismale Bi Dude and Gym-Bro, Generally Boring Socdem Eurocuck

User avatar
Tennliness
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jun 08, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tennliness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:40 pm

Ploon wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!


But who would feed us men? :(


Dear god... will I have to make my own dinner? :unsure:
Signature? I'm not even giving you my real name!

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/247169/

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:41 pm

Ploon wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!

But who would feed us men? :(

You will. :P

Zottistan wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote::P We are all people here!

We can still categorize people without taking away from personhood.

We could, but I don't really agree with all the categorization, because with all of the categorization come labels and boxes.
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:41 pm

Ploon wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!


But who would feed us men? :(

You must return to the old ways of slim jims and vendor hotdogs.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:41 pm

Tennliness wrote:
Ploon wrote:But who would feed us men? :(

Dear god... will I have to make my own dinner? :unsure:

Yes sweetie. Now get right on it. :P
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
FoxTropica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6633
Founded: Aug 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby FoxTropica » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 pm

Ploon wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!


But who would feed us men? :(

Isn't that why microwaves were invented? Just put it in, push a button, food.

An electronic wife i say! :p
Last edited by FoxTropica on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Daktanese Technocracy
Diplomat
 
Posts: 951
Founded: May 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Daktanese Technocracy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 pm

I think "gender" is a useless term because if you're a woman, everything you do is by definition feminine and so on so fourth, so I'm not sure I believe transgender people exist.
"I remember the first time I died. Facing down my foe was to be expected. Even inevitable. Resurrected, my soul awoke and my battles were fought harder. Death became my friend. I remember the first time I died. But dying gets easier; it's how you die that leaves your mark. Prepare to die..."

User avatar
Tennliness
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jun 08, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tennliness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Tennliness wrote:Dear god... will I have to make my own dinner? :unsure:

Yes sweetie. Now get right on it. :P


I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:
Signature? I'm not even giving you my real name!

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/247169/

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65244
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
only if you promise to quote combat liberalism during and after.


Alaje, combatting liberalism in fuzzy handcuffs since 2013. :p

Kinky
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Ploon (Ancient)
Envoy
 
Posts: 312
Founded: Feb 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ploon (Ancient) » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Tennliness wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Yes sweetie. Now get right on it. :P


I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:


What next? Will I have to wash my own clothes now?
I'm part of the Christian left. I support Gay marriage and Socialism.

User avatar
Individuality-ness
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37712
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:44 pm

Tennliness wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Yes sweetie. Now get right on it. :P

I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:

Tenn, meet stove, microwave, oven, refrigerator, kitchen sink, and pantry. And likewise. :P
"I should have listened to her, so hard to keep control. We kept on eating but our bloated bellies still not full."
Poetry Thread | How to Not Rape | Aspergers v. Assburgers | You Might be an Altie If... | Factbook/Extension

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65244
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

Ploon wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Womans not being in the kitchen making sammaches! :O The horror!


But who would feed us men? :(

McDonalds Drivethru?
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Eleutheria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1104
Founded: Oct 24, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Eleutheria » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

I have no problem with someone choosing to change their appearance, and I have no problem with someone identifying as a women. But I think that this notion that gender doesn't matter and that men and women are fundamentally the same is quite dangerous and factually wrong.

Women and men are very different psychologically because we have different brain structures, male brains are 10% bigger and have 4% more brain cells, but women have more cellular connections which allow quicker speed of thought and problem solving. Men have four times as much grey matter and women have ten times as much white matter. Men predominantly use the left hemisphere of the brain which is based in rationality, but women have a bigger corpus callosum which means that they transfer data between the two hemispheres more easily and are thus more in touch with the right side of their brain that is responsible for both art and communication.

This means that men and women are fundamentally different, women have evolved neurologically to be better communicators, and men have a greater capacity for rationality and are more detached from their emotions, they also (due to a lesser ability to communicate) tend to think in terms of themselves rather than the group.

(Sources include: The Scientific American: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -boy-brain and http://www.thirdage.com/love-romance/th ... male-brain)

Both of these skill sets seem equal, I am in no way trying to suggest either male or female superiority but I am trying to show male and female difference. You can change how you look all you like but inside where it counts-inside of your mind, you will always think like and be your original gender.

Does that matter and should it effect someone's choice in changing their appearance? Ofc not, people must be free to alter their bodies however they wish, but they shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that they have changed their gender. It just isn't true, it isn't transgenderism I have a problem with, it's self-delusion I don't like.
I am a libertarian and an atheist. Senator for The Libertarian Freedom Party.
The demonym of Eleutheria is Eleutheri, any references to "Eleutherians" will be treated with contempt

User avatar
Tennliness
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jun 08, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tennliness » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

Ploon wrote:
Tennliness wrote:
I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:


What next? Will I have to wash my own clothes now?


Or will I have to clean the dishes and take after those kids?

Individuality-ness wrote:
Tennliness wrote:I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:

Tenn, meet stove, microwave, oven, refrigerator, kitchen sink, and pantry. And likewise. :P


Hello, Stove, Microwave, Oven, Refrigerator, Kitchen Sink, and Pantry.

I'm going to kill all of you.
Signature? I'm not even giving you my real name!

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.90

http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/247169/

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

The Daktanese Technocracy wrote:I think "gender" is a useless term because if you're a woman, everything you do is by definition feminine and so on so fourth, so I'm not sure I believe transgender people exist.

I keep beginning to understand this and then losing it.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Immoren
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 65244
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Immoren » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

Ploon wrote:
Tennliness wrote:
I refuse to take part in this debauchery! :mad:


What next? Will I have to wash my own clothes now?

I do it all the time darling.
IC Flag Is a Pope Principia
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there

User avatar
Zottistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14894
Founded: Nov 26, 2011
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Zottistan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:46 pm

Individuality-ness wrote:
Zottistan wrote:We can still categorize people without taking away from personhood.

We could, but I don't really agree with all the categorization, because with all of the categorization come labels and boxes.

The solution to people being stupid isn't dumb down our practices. People not being able to distinguish between a characteristic and a stereotype is a fault with people, not categorization.
Ireland, BCL and LLM, Training Barrister, Cismale Bi Dude and Gym-Bro, Generally Boring Socdem Eurocuck

User avatar
The Daktanese Technocracy
Diplomat
 
Posts: 951
Founded: May 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Daktanese Technocracy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:47 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
The Daktanese Technocracy wrote:I think "gender" is a useless term because if you're a woman, everything you do is by definition feminine and so on so fourth, so I'm not sure I believe transgender people exist.

I keep beginning to understand this and then losing it.

I'm not sure where you're losing it so I don't know what I can do about that. :p
"I remember the first time I died. Facing down my foe was to be expected. Even inevitable. Resurrected, my soul awoke and my battles were fought harder. Death became my friend. I remember the first time I died. But dying gets easier; it's how you die that leaves your mark. Prepare to die..."

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