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by NewAztlan » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 am
by Pillea » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:32 am
Rereumrari wrote:I don't harbor any direct animosity towards transexuals. I've never met one, but if I did, I would shake his/her hand and treat that person with the same common respect that I give every other person I meet. However, I am very against plastic surgery. I think that it is the product of a society that puts far too much importance on looks and not enough on character. I've always been told that you should love who you are, no matter how you were born and I think those are good words to live by. For that reason, I don't see why the "T" is part of LGBT. Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals were indeed born that way and are proud of how they were born. Transexuals on the other hand were not born that way and clearly were not proud of how they were born. For a group that focuses on intrinsic pride, this seems like a very huge contradiction to include people in it who are not proud of themselves. If the technology for sex-changes did not exist, they would probably be either L,G, or B, but instead, they choose to abandon that in hopes of altering themselves to become straight, just like the gay-shaming society wants them to be.
I think it is very sad that society stigmatizes gays so much that one would feel like they would have to change genders just to become socially acceptable to date the people they want to. The worst part about it is that they can't really date the people they want because no technology exists to truly change you into a female or male. The best they can do is make you look like one, but you would never have the actual means to create or give birth to a child. If you were a woman, you're now a woman with a hysterectomy. If you were a guy, you are now a guy with no penis or testicles, Neutered. It's not enough to look like a gender if you want to date the opposite gender, you have to actually be the gender. Attempting to deceive someone with really good surgery and expecting that person not to get angry when you tell them months in to the relationship who you really are will only make things worse.
I mention this because in another thread, a few people said they would not disclose this to a partner they met. That is horribly malicious and ethically wrong to do. If I wouldn't have dated you as a man, I wouldn't date you now when you are trying to mask yourself as a woman. Trying to trick someone with fraud and deceit will not get you any closer to them. As much as you may see yourself as female, you are still not female to other people. Don't lie to your date.
by Grenartia » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:39 am
Pillea wrote:Rereumrari wrote:I don't harbor any direct animosity towards transexuals. I've never met one, but if I did, I would shake his/her hand and treat that person with the same common respect that I give every other person I meet. However, I am very against plastic surgery. I think that it is the product of a society that puts far too much importance on looks and not enough on character. I've always been told that you should love who you are, no matter how you were born and I think those are good words to live by. For that reason, I don't see why the "T" is part of LGBT. Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals were indeed born that way and are proud of how they were born. Transexuals on the other hand were not born that way and clearly were not proud of how they were born. For a group that focuses on intrinsic pride, this seems like a very huge contradiction to include people in it who are not proud of themselves. If the technology for sex-changes did not exist, they would probably be either L,G, or B, but instead, they choose to abandon that in hopes of altering themselves to become straight, just like the gay-shaming society wants them to be.
I think it is very sad that society stigmatizes gays so much that one would feel like they would have to change genders just to become socially acceptable to date the people they want to. The worst part about it is that they can't really date the people they want because no technology exists to truly change you into a female or male. The best they can do is make you look like one, but you would never have the actual means to create or give birth to a child. If you were a woman, you're now a woman with a hysterectomy. If you were a guy, you are now a guy with no penis or testicles, Neutered. It's not enough to look like a gender if you want to date the opposite gender, you have to actually be the gender. Attempting to deceive someone with really good surgery and expecting that person not to get angry when you tell them months in to the relationship who you really are will only make things worse.
I mention this because in another thread, a few people said they would not disclose this to a partner they met. That is horribly malicious and ethically wrong to do. If I wouldn't have dated you as a man, I wouldn't date you now when you are trying to mask yourself as a woman. Trying to trick someone with fraud and deceit will not get you any closer to them. As much as you may see yourself as female, you are still not female to other people. Don't lie to your date.
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
by Xathranaar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:41 am
Pillea wrote:Rereumrari wrote:I don't harbor any direct animosity towards transexuals. I've never met one, but if I did, I would shake his/her hand and treat that person with the same common respect that I give every other person I meet. However, I am very against plastic surgery. I think that it is the product of a society that puts far too much importance on looks and not enough on character. I've always been told that you should love who you are, no matter how you were born and I think those are good words to live by. For that reason, I don't see why the "T" is part of LGBT. Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals were indeed born that way and are proud of how they were born. Transexuals on the other hand were not born that way and clearly were not proud of how they were born. For a group that focuses on intrinsic pride, this seems like a very huge contradiction to include people in it who are not proud of themselves. If the technology for sex-changes did not exist, they would probably be either L,G, or B, but instead, they choose to abandon that in hopes of altering themselves to become straight, just like the gay-shaming society wants them to be.
I think it is very sad that society stigmatizes gays so much that one would feel like they would have to change genders just to become socially acceptable to date the people they want to. The worst part about it is that they can't really date the people they want because no technology exists to truly change you into a female or male. The best they can do is make you look like one, but you would never have the actual means to create or give birth to a child. If you were a woman, you're now a woman with a hysterectomy. If you were a guy, you are now a guy with no penis or testicles, Neutered. It's not enough to look like a gender if you want to date the opposite gender, you have to actually be the gender. Attempting to deceive someone with really good surgery and expecting that person not to get angry when you tell them months in to the relationship who you really are will only make things worse.
I mention this because in another thread, a few people said they would not disclose this to a partner they met. That is horribly malicious and ethically wrong to do. If I wouldn't have dated you as a man, I wouldn't date you now when you are trying to mask yourself as a woman. Trying to trick someone with fraud and deceit will not get you any closer to them. As much as you may see yourself as female, you are still not female to other people. Don't lie to your date.
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
by Rereumrari » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:45 am
If transexuals were proud of their true selves, they would not have changed themselves. Your true self is how you were born. You were conceived to be either male or female and it was never in the plan for your body to just suddenly change that with a scalpel. When it comes down to it, you can't choose to change gender any more than you can choose to change race or species. Society didn't force you to be born one way or another, your father's sperm did. That was out of your control.Pillea wrote:Rereumrari wrote:I don't harbor any direct animosity towards transexuals. I've never met one, but if I did, I would shake his/her hand and treat that person with the same common respect that I give every other person I meet. However, I am very against plastic surgery. I think that it is the product of a society that puts far too much importance on looks and not enough on character. I've always been told that you should love who you are, no matter how you were born and I think those are good words to live by. For that reason, I don't see why the "T" is part of LGBT. Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals were indeed born that way and are proud of how they were born. Transexuals on the other hand were not born that way and clearly were not proud of how they were born. For a group that focuses on intrinsic pride, this seems like a very huge contradiction to include people in it who are not proud of themselves. If the technology for sex-changes did not exist, they would probably be either L,G, or B, but instead, they choose to abandon that in hopes of altering themselves to become straight, just like the gay-shaming society wants them to be.
I think it is very sad that society stigmatizes gays so much that one would feel like they would have to change genders just to become socially acceptable to date the people they want to. The worst part about it is that they can't really date the people they want because no technology exists to truly change you into a female or male. The best they can do is make you look like one, but you would never have the actual means to create or give birth to a child. If you were a woman, you're now a woman with a hysterectomy. If you were a guy, you are now a guy with no penis or testicles, Neutered. It's not enough to look like a gender if you want to date the opposite gender, you have to actually be the gender. Attempting to deceive someone with really good surgery and expecting that person not to get angry when you tell them months in to the relationship who you really are will only make things worse.
I mention this because in another thread, a few people said they would not disclose this to a partner they met. That is horribly malicious and ethically wrong to do. If I wouldn't have dated you as a man, I wouldn't date you now when you are trying to mask yourself as a woman. Trying to trick someone with fraud and deceit will not get you any closer to them. As much as you may see yourself as female, you are still not female to other people. Don't lie to your date.
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
I don't think I could've said it much better.
by Immoren » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:48 am
Rereumrari wrote:you can't choose to change gender any more than you can choose to change race.
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Pillea » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:50 am
Rereumrari wrote:If transexuals were proud of their true selves, they would not have changed themselves. Your true self is how you were born. You were conceived to be either male or female and it was never in the plan for your body to just suddenly change that with a scalpel. When it comes down to it, you can't choose to change gender any more than you can choose to change race or species. Society didn't force you to be born one way or another, your father's sperm did. That was out of your control.Pillea wrote:
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
by Transmaris » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:50 am
EnragedMaldivians wrote:They're people like anyone else. And despite you yourself being trans, I think it's silly to put trans folks under a microscope and ask for other people's opinions on them as if they are an exotic collective. They stretch the gamut from wonderful people to assholes, again, like anyone else.
by Rereumrari » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:50 am
Vitiligo. He was born that way.
by Zweite Alaje » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:51 am
Dotanga wrote:They're human beings. Plain and simple.
Now can we finally, as a society, move on and accept people for who they are?
by Xathranaar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:51 am
Transmaris wrote:EnragedMaldivians wrote:They're people like anyone else. And despite you yourself being trans, I think it's silly to put trans folks under a microscope and ask for other people's opinions on them as if they are an exotic collective. They stretch the gamut from wonderful people to assholes, again, like anyone else.
This!
by Immoren » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:52 am
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Xathranaar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:52 am
by Rereumrari » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:53 am
Why would I be skeptical? His doctors also confirmed he had the disorder after he died. If there was a doctor who performed some race-change surgery, wouldn't he have stepped up too?
by Defensor » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:55 am
Pillea wrote:Rereumrari wrote:I don't harbor any direct animosity towards transexuals. I've never met one, but if I did, I would shake his/her hand and treat that person with the same common respect that I give every other person I meet. However, I am very against plastic surgery. I think that it is the product of a society that puts far too much importance on looks and not enough on character. I've always been told that you should love who you are, no matter how you were born and I think those are good words to live by. For that reason, I don't see why the "T" is part of LGBT. Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals were indeed born that way and are proud of how they were born. Transexuals on the other hand were not born that way and clearly were not proud of how they were born. For a group that focuses on intrinsic pride, this seems like a very huge contradiction to include people in it who are not proud of themselves. If the technology for sex-changes did not exist, they would probably be either L,G, or B, but instead, they choose to abandon that in hopes of altering themselves to become straight, just like the gay-shaming society wants them to be.
I think it is very sad that society stigmatizes gays so much that one would feel like they would have to change genders just to become socially acceptable to date the people they want to. The worst part about it is that they can't really date the people they want because no technology exists to truly change you into a female or male. The best they can do is make you look like one, but you would never have the actual means to create or give birth to a child. If you were a woman, you're now a woman with a hysterectomy. If you were a guy, you are now a guy with no penis or testicles, Neutered. It's not enough to look like a gender if you want to date the opposite gender, you have to actually be the gender. Attempting to deceive someone with really good surgery and expecting that person not to get angry when you tell them months in to the relationship who you really are will only make things worse.
I mention this because in another thread, a few people said they would not disclose this to a partner they met. That is horribly malicious and ethically wrong to do. If I wouldn't have dated you as a man, I wouldn't date you now when you are trying to mask yourself as a woman. Trying to trick someone with fraud and deceit will not get you any closer to them. As much as you may see yourself as female, you are still not female to other people. Don't lie to your date.
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
by The Walking Ghost » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:55 am
by Xathranaar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:58 am
by Pillea » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:58 am
Defensor wrote:Pillea wrote:
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
I don't get it, I think he was trying to compliment you, and you got mad at him?
This is beyond me now...
by Grenartia » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:59 am
Rereumrari wrote:Pillea wrote:
Your premise is wrong on so many levels.
One, there are plenty of infertile cisgender people out there, they're still the gender they are.
Two, there are plenty of non-heterosexual transgender people out there, they're still the sexuality they are.
Three, before plastic surgery existed, and in cultures where it still isn't prevalent, there are people who live as the opposite gender than they were raised as. Even today, not all transgender people undergo surgery.
Four, we are proud of ourselves, proud of our true selves, not the self we were told we had to be.
EDIT:
Five, it's not the trans* person's fault that someone cannot accept them, it's the other person's fault.
1. If transexuals were proud of their true selves, they would not have changed themselves. 2. Your true self is how you were born. 3. You were conceived to be either male or female and it was never in the plan for your body to just suddenly change that with a scalpel. 4. When it comes down to it, you can't choose to change gender any more than you can choose to change race or species. 5. Society didn't force you to be born one way or another, your father's sperm did. That was out of your control.I don't think I could've said it much better.
6. Well then you're not really adding anything are you? If the post is so great, it should be able to stand on its own without you kissing up to it.
Also, I am the master of my body, not the other way around. I don't really give a fuck what blueprints my body "intended" to follow. by Rereumrari » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:00 am
He only altered his nose. His skin was actually patchy in appearance, but he used makeup to cover it. Not to mention, if he really did change his race through surgery, the doctor that did it would have stepped up for the free publicity. All gossip, no evidence.Xathranaar wrote:Rereumrari wrote:Why would I be skeptical? His doctors also confirmed he had the disorder after he died. If there was a doctor who performed some race-change surgery, wouldn't he have stepped up too?
Why be skeptical? Because the man underwent repeated plastic surgery operations to alter his appearance?
The underlined is also relevant.
by New England and The Maritimes » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:02 am
Rereumrari wrote:He only altered his nose. His skin was actually patchy in appearance, but he used makeup to cover it. Not to mention, if he really did change his race through surgery, the doctor that did it would have stepped up for the free publicity. All gossip, no evidence.Xathranaar wrote:Why be skeptical? Because the man underwent repeated plastic surgery operations to alter his appearance?
The underlined is also relevant.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Some people's opinions are based on rational observations, others base theirs on imaginative thinking. The reality-based community ought not to waste it's time refuting delusions.
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