Your opinion of transgender people

[Immoren]

I think it's very strange to feel like a girl and be a boy or the other way a round.

Don't you lie to me you've never wanted to walk a mile in another shoes.

[Veceria]

I neither care of other people's genders, nor do I really care about my own. I will call a person by the gender he/she/it identifies with, and that's it.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I think it's very strange to feel like a girl and be a boy or the other way a round.

Don't you lie to me you've never wanted to walk a mile in another shoes.

I did that, once. Horribly uncomfortable.

But a learning experience.

[Casinoria]

Personally I recognise two genders. I've seen the term "genderqueer" thrown around and from my understanding it's either a mix of two genders or an absence of either gender. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that if you don't have either gender then, unless it's identified as a brand new gender, then its an absence and as such not a new gender.

If you are trans*, genderqueer or anything else then good luck to you. You deserve the same rights as everybody else.

[Transhuman Proteus]

Yeah I don't want my money going to fix your knee because it would make your life better. Use your money to fix what you want.

Id be fine with that. I'm homeless and I'm against anything that isn't provided by yourself. I find ways of paying for food and a phone. I make sure I can get medical help. And, who pays for it in the end? Me.

Impressive, most of the homeless people I've encountered in my volunteering wouldn't be able to keep an internet capable phone both paid for or from being stolen. And then spend there homeless days and nights on internet forums, since that is a sure fire way to get their phone stolen or for people considering tossing them a few coins to think "pffffft, needy when he's sitting around playing on his phone?"

So I'm guessing by what you're saying you aren't getting by on charity/begging, aren't using charitable shelters or food providers, aren't receiving any kind of money from the government, aren't receiving money from your parents, aren't crashing on a friend's lounge - which in my experience would mean a very understanding employer (rare to the point of near non-existence), crime, or money left from a time prior to homelessness/a large sum from some other source.

And you make sure you can get medical help? Are you a homeless person who also maintains an insurance policy, or do you receive some kind of automatic coverage? Say, you develop cancer or a hit by a car one day - are you in a position to pay for the life saving treatment + plus your long periods of recuperation from your own pocket, or would you prefer die for the principle of "society has no duty to help anyone"?

Good for you. And it'll be your fault if it turns out you have serious long-term problems that have gone unchecked for years.

Well, seeing that the closest hospital to me is horrible, ill make due. Would you willingly got to a place that got sued because of your grandfathers death due to neglect?

If it was the only option and I was dying - yes. Since even a bad hospital is better than no hospital when one is coughing up their lungs or all busted up after a car hits them.

[The Truth and Light]

The idea of "gender" is a sexist concept by very nature, and it is deeply rooted in our society so I don't really see change coming.

I am okay with transgender people, I guess. My only concern is that it just seems like you're choosing one oppressive label in place of another, instead of just finding who you are independent of these labels that are all centered around the pillar of heteronormalcy. But I guess if gender works for you, then go for it. I choose to identify as male, it works for me. I'm all for being who you are.

[Souseiseki]

I was making reference to my nation's flag, if you have not yet gathered that.

I thought you were doing a "I want to be horrible but I can't because my flag!" thing.

As for SRS as a stopper of suicide and thus necessary to save lives, I must object to your voluminous feels.

Voluminous feels, hilarious. You could say it's a charged term, but the facts appear to support my "voluminous feels" on that front. In addition to mountains of anecdotal evidence, but hey, who needs that when you have studies.

Pay for the surgery on your own dime if you feel it's so life or death you'll commit suicide over it.

People often do so if they can. (Spoilers: They usually can't.) Especially if they live in a country where they can't get covered by insurance for it. Personally I'm into the whole "Universal Health Care and following the most effective courses of treatment in each case", which in many cases just so happens to be SRS.

It's not the state's job to prevent suicides by throwing money at people's wants.

I dunno man, whether it be trans people or the vast expanse of things which aren't a biological threat but can cause serious harm to people and the people around them, I would kinda like it if the NHS actually did help people who are considering/attempting suicide and attempted to treat them in the past way possible.

It takes a lot of balls to talk about it being a "want". And since you appear to be talking about SRS specifically with wants, we come back to the good old gem of “Sex reassignment is not “experimental”, “investigative”, “elective”, “cosmetic”, or optional in any meaningful sense. It constitutes very effective and appropriate treatment for transsexualism or profound GID." and the others.

I'm also wondering who exactly would want to be trans anyway. I know quite a few people who wouldn't hesitate to just reborn as cis. It's not exactly a pleasant experience. Oh no, there's those feels again!

If you disagree with that politically, then our discourse will certainly yield no fruit and we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

Oh, I do.

You're either in the same boat as the other guy and don't support universal healthcare period, which is kind of bad but this would be the wrong thread. Or you do, but think SRS is just something people want that's totally cosmetic choice, in which case you are pretty much empirically wrong.

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, but I've been struggling with the fact that my feeling and my biology are two different entities fighting against each other. The possibility of a gender re-assignment has been on my mind for some time, but has been very much dominating my mind for the last week, moreso than the last 10 years. My opinion? I have a massive amount of compassion, because I feel their pain and I don't know how to deal with it.

I don't have much to say except I still remember that time you came to LF because of that one thing and I don't want this post to look like it was ignored, especially because of that.

Sometimes I feel bad because sometimes I think the easiest way to win these "debates" would be to magically make my opponents trans, thus winning by default as they stop posting and set off on their new fun fun lives. No! Bad feels! Also I feel bad because all I could think was "those flags! aha!".

Yes, you do.

It seems like every few threads is something about gays, or bisexuals, or asexuals, or transgenders, or cisgenders (the fuck is that retarded term supposed to be), fakejwgsexuals, etc. Its absolutely ridiculous.

It turns out the topics on this forum actually kind of repeat and people are more likely to make threads about and post in threads about the issues they personally care about or are affected by.

[Ifreann]

Mechanical engineering. Specifically I'm studying medical robotics from a mechanical rather than electrical or bio engineering perspective. I'm researching prosthesis.

What? This is an outrage. You're not cisgendered, do you not realise that you're only capable of doing gender studies which isn't a proper thing because I don't understand it? Engineering, indeed. Pfft.

It's probably some kind of weird gender engineering. Engendineering.

---

2. Government paying for it with tax money=/=taxpayer paying for it.

I'd like to know where you think tax money comes from if not from taxpayers. Please, do enlighten me.

When McDonalds opens a new store, do you say that you paid for it, since you get a burger from them every once in a while? No? Then why do you say that you pay for things the government does? When you pay taxes, that money isn't yours. It's the government's. Just like when you buy a Happy Meal, that money isn't yours any more, it's Ronald McDonald's.

---

The opposite of transgender; someone whose gender identity is the same as their assigned biological sex at birth.

No it's not, it's a word made up by two Transgender activists.

No really look it up, it's not a scientific term in the slightest. It only appeared in the 90s and is only a term really circulated on the internet.

"Science" does not use the term "Cis"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cis-?r=75

cis-
1.
a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin meaning “on the near side of” ( cisalpine ); on this model, used in the formation of compound words ( cisatlantic ).
2.
Chemistry . a specialization of this denoting a geometric isomer having a pair of identical atoms or groups attached on the same side of two atoms linked by a double bond. Compare trans- ( def 2 ) .

I guess chemistry isn't a science.

---

...I think this whole gender confusion thing could be better solved with medication than surgery...

I'm given to understand that it generally is, the medication being hormone treatments or the like.

[Bottle]

The idea of "gender" is a sexist concept by very nature, and it is deeply rooted in our society so I don't really see change coming.

I am okay with transgender people, I guess. My only concern is that it just seems like you're choosing one oppressive label in place of another, instead of just finding who you are independent of these labels that are all centered around the pillar of heteronormalcy. But I guess if gender works for you, then go for it. I choose to identify as male, it works for me. I'm all for being who you are.

Was pretty much going to say this.

I dislike the construct of binary gender, and thus being "transgender" is just another way of participating in a system that I don't agree with.

However, I don't expect everyone to be willing or able to reject binary gender, and I have no problem respecting how other people want to be identified. I only get annoyed when people take their personal feelings about gender and start trying to tell me that This Is How It Is and everyone else must also feel this way and therefore I must participate in their view of gender and adhere to their rigid formulae. Nope.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The idea of "gender" is a sexist concept by very nature, and it is deeply rooted in our society so I don't really see change coming.

I am okay with transgender people, I guess. My only concern is that it just seems like you're choosing one oppressive label in place of another, instead of just finding who you are independent of these labels that are all centered around the pillar of heteronormalcy. But I guess if gender works for you, then go for it. I choose to identify as male, it works for me. I'm all for being who you are.

>implying that all transgender people are binary-identified
>implying that self-identity can ever be truly independent of reference to the existing cultural terms and resources circulating in society

[Bottle]

The idea of "gender" is a sexist concept by very nature, and it is deeply rooted in our society so I don't really see change coming.

I am okay with transgender people, I guess. My only concern is that it just seems like you're choosing one oppressive label in place of another, instead of just finding who you are independent of these labels that are all centered around the pillar of heteronormalcy. But I guess if gender works for you, then go for it. I choose to identify as male, it works for me. I'm all for being who you are.

>implying that all transgender people are binary-identified
>implying that self-identity can ever be truly independent of reference to the existing cultural terms and resources circulating in society

Most transgender people ARE binary-identified...just like most cis people. Because that's the "existing cultural terms" that we all live within, trans and cis alike.

And you're right, self-identity cannot ever be completely independent from our social context, but so what? Does that mean we shouldn't push for better understanding of that context, and try to spot the parts of our self-identity which actually aren't really about ourselves at all? Sure, we're never going to be able to be perfect objective observers, but so what? There's still plenty of room for growth.

[The Steel Magnolia]

Personally I recognise two genders. I've seen the term "genderqueer" thrown around and from my understanding it's either a mix of two genders or an absence of either gender. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that if you don't have either gender then, unless it's identified as a brand new gender, then its an absence and as such not a new gender.

If you are trans*, genderqueer or anything else then good luck to you. You deserve the same rights as everybody else.

Eh, not quite, it is distinct. It generally refers to anything that is non-binary, so an absence of gender identity, a gender identity of both male and female, or a gender identity of neither entirely.

[Dumb Ideologies]

>implying that all transgender people are binary-identified
>implying that self-identity can ever be truly independent of reference to the existing cultural terms and resources circulating in society

Most transgender people ARE binary-identified...just like most cis people. Because that's the "existing cultural terms" that we all live within, trans and cis alike.

And you're right, self-identity cannot ever be completely independent from our social context, but so what? Does that mean we shouldn't push for better understanding of that context, and try to spot the parts of our self-identity which actually aren't really about ourselves at all? Sure, we're never going to be able to be perfect objective observers, but so what? There's still plenty of room for growth.

Yeah...and trans folks engage in trying to understand gender and engage in intense self-reflection about their gendered selves at least as much, often more so than the cis community. Pretty bored of transplaining against sneery feminist "more enlightened than thou" intellectually bankrupt gender posturing.

[Desperate Measures]

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, but I've been struggling with the fact that my feeling and my biology are two different entities fighting against each other. The possibility of a gender re-assignment has been on my mind for some time, but has been very much dominating my mind for the last week, moreso than the last 10 years. My opinion? I have a massive amount of compassion, because I feel their pain and I don't know how to deal with it.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Hopefully, this thread proves that there is a strong community of people out there that will stand for you and support you.

[Bottle]

Most transgender people ARE binary-identified...just like most cis people. Because that's the "existing cultural terms" that we all live within, trans and cis alike.

And you're right, self-identity cannot ever be completely independent from our social context, but so what? Does that mean we shouldn't push for better understanding of that context, and try to spot the parts of our self-identity which actually aren't really about ourselves at all? Sure, we're never going to be able to be perfect objective observers, but so what? There's still plenty of room for growth.

Yeah...and trans folks engage in trying to understand gender and engage in intense self-reflection about their gendered selves at least as much, often more so than the cis community. Pretty bored of transplaining against sneery feminist "more enlightened than thou" intellectually bankrupt gender posturing.

I can understand that, and honestly I do respect it, which is why I generally shut the fuck up about this subject around trans people unless they specifically invite me to discuss it. I also refrain from cis-splaining to trans people about any of it, and stick to offering my perspective and my opinions (which I do not pretend are perfect, objective, or immune to all the same cultural biases that everyone else experiences).

And, I am well aware that the feminist community as a whole has a really shitty history when it comes to trans issues. I don't expect trans people to ignore that or forget it or even cut feminism a break in spite of it, because feminism has earned its lumps on this one.

[Souseiseki]

Yeah...and trans folks engage in trying to understand gender and engage in intense self-reflection about their gendered selves at least as much, often more so than the cis community. Pretty bored of transplaining against sneery feminist "more enlightened than thou" intellectually bankrupt gender posturing.

I can understand that, and honestly I do respect it, which is why I generally shut the fuck up about this subject around trans people unless they specifically invite me to discuss it. I also refrain from cis-splaining to trans people about any of it, and stick to offering my perspective and my opinions (which I do not pretend are perfect, objective, or immune to all the same cultural biases that everyone else experiences).

And, I am well aware that the feminist community as a whole has a really shitty history when it comes to trans issues. I don't expect trans people to ignore that or forget it or even cut feminism a break in spite of it, because feminism has earned its lumps on this one.

it's kinda annoying that i can't rant about radical feminists without people thinking i'm some conservative loon ):

[The Steel Magnolia]

I can understand that, and honestly I do respect it, which is why I generally shut the fuck up about this subject around trans people unless they specifically invite me to discuss it. I also refrain from cis-splaining to trans people about any of it, and stick to offering my perspective and my opinions (which I do not pretend are perfect, objective, or immune to all the same cultural biases that everyone else experiences).

And yet you`re doing so right now...

And, I am well aware that the feminist community as a whole has a really shitty history when it comes to trans issues. I don't expect trans people to ignore that or forget it or even cut feminism a break in spite of it, because feminism has earned its lumps on this one.

Well, that's progress of a certain sort at least.

Regardless, while abolishing the institution of gender may be considered a worthy goal it is not one that is realistic or one that is, arguably, worth working towards. Gender is important and gender matters, and it is a principal part of self identity. Instead of a world with no gender, I dream of one where gender doesn't matter, and there is no discrimination on its basis. The destruction of the Kyriarchy does not mean an end to gender, but it does mean an end to gender roles and the expectations we place upon them.

[Desperate Measures]

I can understand that, and honestly I do respect it, which is why I generally shut the fuck up about this subject around trans people unless they specifically invite me to discuss it. I also refrain from cis-splaining to trans people about any of it, and stick to offering my perspective and my opinions (which I do not pretend are perfect, objective, or immune to all the same cultural biases that everyone else experiences).

And, I am well aware that the feminist community as a whole has a really shitty history when it comes to trans issues. I don't expect trans people to ignore that or forget it or even cut feminism a break in spite of it, because feminism has earned its lumps on this one.

it's kinda annoying that i can't rant about radical feminists without people thinking i'm some conservative loon ):

I feel this way too. Feminism does a lot of good with the exception of this glaring issue but I guiltily ignore it most of the time.

[Ostroeuropa]

Where is the option for less than two genders?

[Desperate Measures]

Where is the option for less than two genders?

One gender to rule them all?

[Ostroeuropa]

Where is the option for less than two genders?

One gender to rule them all?

Gender is a range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics distinguishing between masculinity and femininity.

If you think the entire concept of masculinity and femininity is bullshit from the get go you can't really believe in gender. At least that definition of it.
If you mean gender/sex then sure. I recognize more than two.

You are cisgender if your gender identity matches your physical sex.

By this definition I can't be cisgender either.

Gender identity refers to a person's private sense of, and subjective experience of, their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.

The key word being acceptance. I don't accept that those categories have any real baring on identity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_abolitionism

I am physically a male. I wouldn't consider myself male gendered in anything but the physical sense. If anything I have more traditional feminine characteristics. If by gender identity you mean "Do you feel ok with having a penis or would you prefer not to?" then it seems like nobody should really care and it's down to whatever the individual wants to do. It's their body. It seems like a lot of effort to go through but then it doesn't really bother me, I suppose if it did I would get it changed. If someone were to tell me they were a transsexual my response would be "Ok." while privately thinking "So what?" which would be my same response if someone angrily declared "That person is a transsexual!" though it that case i'd add "Why do you care exactly?"

[Edward Richtofen]

They are people. As long as they don't shove their particular set of beliefs in my face i'll treat them as any other person: Decently or slightly cold depending on how bad my day is (I'm only Human).

[Scholencia]

So, NSG, are you supportive of trans* people? Do you recognize only two genders? Are you trans*?

Carnival and hallowen are always amusing.

[Souseiseki]

So, NSG, are you supportive of trans* people? Do you recognize only two genders? Are you trans*?

Carnival and hallowen are always amusing.

is this because they always make it fun or because you think they're freaks

[Desperate Measures]

One gender to rule them all?

Gender is a range of physical, mental, and behavioral characteristics distinguishing between masculinity and femininity.

If you think the entire concept of masculinity and femininity is bullshit from the get go you can't really believe in gender. At least that definition of it.
If you mean gender/sex then sure. I recognize more than two.

You are cisgender if your gender identity matches your physical sex.

By this definition I can't be cisgender either.

Gender identity refers to a person's private sense of, and subjective experience of, their own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.

The key word being acceptance. I don't accept that those categories have any real baring on identity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_abolitionism

I am physically a male. I wouldn't consider myself male gendered in anything but the physical sense. If anything I have more traditional feminine characteristics. If by gender identity you mean "Do you feel ok with having a penis or would you prefer not to?" then it seems like nobody should really care and it's down to whatever the individual wants to do. It's their body. It seems like a lot of effort to go through but then it doesn't really bother me, I suppose if it did I would get it changed. If someone were to tell me they were a transsexual my response would be "Ok." while privately thinking "So what?" which would be my same response if someone angrily declared "That person is a transsexual!" though it that case i'd add "Why do you care exactly?"

I understood, the phrase just entered my head and I had to type it and it wasn't meant to mean anything that wasn't lighthearted.