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The Cloward Piven Strategy

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KiloMikeAlpha
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The Cloward Piven Strategy

Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:18 pm

"The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty" AKA "The Cloward-Piven Strategy (CPS)

This article was first published in "The Nation" on May 2, 1966. It suggests a strategy for ending poverty. This strategy is all about redistribution of wealth. The tactics they suggest include creating crises in which the goverment welfare system is overwhelmed by too many people requesting benefits.

The end result is buying, nay enslaving the poor urban masses, by ensuring thier loyalties to thier "benefactors"

I have always said that liberals breed liberals. They use thier liberal viewpoints to enslave, not liberate.

No strategy, however confident its advocates may be, is foolproof. But if unforeseen contingencies thwart this plan to bring about new federal legislation in the field of poverty, it should also be noted that there would be gains even in defeat. For one thing, the plight of many poor people would be somewhat eased in the course of an assault upon public welfare. Existing recipients would come to know their rights and how to defend them, thus acquiring dignity where none now exists; and millions of dollars in withheld welfare benefits would become available to potential recipients now-not several generations from now. Such
an attack should also be welcome to those currently concerned with programs designed to equip the young to rise out of poverty (e.g., Head Start), for surely children learn more readily when the oppressive burden of financial insecurity is lifted from the shoulders of their parents. And those seeking new ways to engage the Negro politically should remember that public resources have always been the fuel for low-income urban political organization. If organizers can deliver millions of dollars in cash benefits to the ghetto masses, it seems reasonable to expect that the masses will deliver their loyalties to their benefactors. At least, they have always done so in the past.


"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - GB Shaw

What say you?
Last edited by KiloMikeAlpha on Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:54 am

Did this go over all of your heads? Are you so fed up with my posts that you didn't want to bother? Do you agree, but are afraid to speak up?
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
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Rolling squid
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Postby Rolling squid » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:59 am

This sort of thing goes back to bread and circuses, and will always show up, regardless of who is in power.
Hammurab wrote:An athiest doesn't attend mass, go to confession, or know a lot about catholicism. So basically, an athiest is the same as a catholic.


Post-Unity Terra wrote:Golly gosh, one group of out-of-touch rich white guys is apparently more in touch with the average man than the other group of out-of-touch rich white guys.

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:03 am

Rolling squid wrote:This sort of thing goes back to bread and circuses, and will always show up, regardless of who is in power.


The point is that for the most part, Liberals rule the poor, urban communities. They promise them stuff to get the votes, thereby ensuring thier loyalties. The problem is that they are promising them MY stuff in order to get elected and stay in power.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:04 am

Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?

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Rolling squid
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Postby Rolling squid » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:04 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Rolling squid wrote:This sort of thing goes back to bread and circuses, and will always show up, regardless of who is in power.


The point is that for the most part, Liberals rule the poor, urban communities. They promise them stuff to get the votes, thereby ensuring thier loyalties. The problem is that they are promising them MY stuff in order to get elected and stay in power.


Eh. If the conservatives are in power, they'd be promising my taxes to the rich, or just letting big business exploit everything. Pick your poison.
Hammurab wrote:An athiest doesn't attend mass, go to confession, or know a lot about catholicism. So basically, an athiest is the same as a catholic.


Post-Unity Terra wrote:Golly gosh, one group of out-of-touch rich white guys is apparently more in touch with the average man than the other group of out-of-touch rich white guys.

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:05 am

its too long to read right now but its an interesting look at the way things were in 1966 and to consider how much of this proposal came to pass and how much didnt.
whatever

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:08 am

Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:09 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.

yeah but politicians dont dole out welfare.
whatever

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:11 am

Ashmoria wrote:its too long to read right now but its an interesting look at the way things were in 1966 and to consider how much of this proposal came to pass and how much didnt.


Yeah. I realize that much has changed since then. However, those who are power now CAME from that era, or were students of that eras strategies. Notice how the article mentions Saul Alinsky. The guys are radicals. They are Community Organizers. This is the community organizer's manifesto.

We have community organizers in this administration. They are trying to make more and more people dependant on them for the sole purpose of keeping themselves in power.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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Rolling squid
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Founded: Nov 15, 2007
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Postby Rolling squid » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:11 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.


It works the other way as. Note the huge corporate subsidies given out to farming and oil. Yet I note that you only seem to get bothered about welfare. I leave you to draw your own conclusion.
Last edited by Rolling squid on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hammurab wrote:An athiest doesn't attend mass, go to confession, or know a lot about catholicism. So basically, an athiest is the same as a catholic.


Post-Unity Terra wrote:Golly gosh, one group of out-of-touch rich white guys is apparently more in touch with the average man than the other group of out-of-touch rich white guys.

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Founded: Jul 20, 2009
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:11 am

Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.

yeah but politicians dont dole out welfare.


They dont? Who does? "Its OBAMA money" "Its from his Stash"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q
Last edited by KiloMikeAlpha on Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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Ifreann
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Posts: 159035
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:12 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.

Giving someone welfare does not equate to keeping them dependant, unless in giving them welfare you are preventing them from getting a job.

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:14 am

Rolling squid wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Rolling squid wrote:This sort of thing goes back to bread and circuses, and will always show up, regardless of who is in power.


The point is that for the most part, Liberals rule the poor, urban communities. They promise them stuff to get the votes, thereby ensuring thier loyalties. The problem is that they are promising them MY stuff in order to get elected and stay in power.


Eh. If the conservatives are in power, they'd be promising my taxes to the rich, or just letting big business exploit everything. Pick your poison.


At least this creates wealth. The other way consumes wealth, stifles growth, and creates more and more poor.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
My Website | My Blogs | My Facebook Page

Who is John Galt?

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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:15 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:its too long to read right now but its an interesting look at the way things were in 1966 and to consider how much of this proposal came to pass and how much didnt.


Yeah. I realize that much has changed since then. However, those who are power now CAME from that era, or were students of that eras strategies. Notice how the article mentions Saul Alinsky. The guys are radicals. They are Community Organizers. This is the community organizer's manifesto.

We have community organizers in this administration. They are trying to make more and more people dependant on them for the sole purpose of keeping themselves in power.

saul alinsky is in power?

if you read it. its about empowering the poor.

this IS what organizations like acorn does, of course. they register poor people to vote. the majority of those they get to register vote democratic (when they vote, registering is not the same as voting, eh?)

thats the real reason why republicans hate them (acorn) so much. they (the republicans) are engaged in a class war against the poor.
whatever

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:16 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.

yeah but politicians dont dole out welfare.


They dont? Who does? "Its OBAMA money" "Its from his Stash"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q

bureaucrats do. you dont go to your local politicians office to get welfare, you go down to the local welfare office.
whatever

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Giving someone welfare = enslaving them? Care to explain that one, chief?


They become dependant upon the politician. They HAVE to keep voting for that guy in order to survive. If all your money for the last 4 years came to you from a specific politician, and now its voting time, who are you going to vote for? The guy who has been giving you money? Or the guy who is promising to reduce what you are paid?

The politician is BUYING the voter, and keeping them dependant. The analogy may not be slavery, it may be closer to ADDICTION.

Giving someone welfare does not equate to keeping them dependant, unless in giving them welfare you are preventing them from getting a job.


Sure it does. Read the text. They dont believe that you should ask a man to work, that is exploiting them.

Second, the right to Income must be guaranteed, or the oppression of the welfare poor will not be eliminated. Because
benefits are conditional under the present public welfare system, submission to arbitrary governmental power is
regularly made the price of sustenance. People have been coerced into attending literacy classes or participating in
medical or vocational rehabilitation regimes, on pain of having their benefits terminated. Men are forced into labor on
virtually any terms lest they forfeit their welfare aid.
One can prize literacy, health and work, while still vigorously
opposing the right of government to compel compliance with these values.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:19 am

Rolling squid wrote:
It works the other way as. Note the huge corporate subsidies given out to farming and oil. Yet I note that you only seem to get bothered about welfare. I leave you to draw your own conclusion.


and those fucks recipients use OUR tax dollars to lobby congress to make sure that they get more of OUR TAX DOLLARS!

we are screwed with our own money.
whatever

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:21 am

Ashmoria wrote:
Rolling squid wrote:
It works the other way as. Note the huge corporate subsidies given out to farming and oil. Yet I note that you only seem to get bothered about welfare. I leave you to draw your own conclusion.


and those fucks recipients use OUR tax dollars to lobby congress to make sure that they get more of OUR TAX DOLLARS!

we are screwed with our own money.


Hey, I'm not saying the earmark and pork in government is the way to go. It is a stupid, corrupt practice. However, until line item vetoes are allowed, that will continue. Unless of course, we start electing people who are patriots and not politicians.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:23 am

The idea that you are "forced into labor on virtually any terms" is a demonstrable lie. Even on unemployment benefits (which, by the way KMA, I thought you said unemployment is not welfare, strange you'd use it now), one is not obligated to take ANY job. Merely any job of reasonable equivalent to the recipient's skills, education, and background.

A doctor an unemployment is not obligated to take a job at McDonalds.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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Neo Art
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Postby Neo Art » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:24 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Hey, I'm not saying the earmark and pork in government is the way to go. It is a stupid, corrupt practice. However, until line item vetoes are allowed, that will continue. Unless of course, we start electing people who are patriots and not politicians.


It's funny how you discuss electing "patriots" while at the same time advocating a blatantly unconstitutional use of executive power.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Founded: Jul 20, 2009
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:24 am

Neo Art wrote:The idea that you are "forced into labor on virtually any terms" is a demonstrable lie. Even on unemployment benefits (which, by the way KMA, I thought you said unemployment is not welfare, strange you'd use it now), one is not obligated to take ANY job. Merely any job of reasonable equivalent to the recipient's skills, education, and background.

A doctor an unemployment is not obligated to take a job at McDonalds.


Not my words, thiers.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
My Website | My Blogs | My Facebook Page

Who is John Galt?

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Founded: Jul 20, 2009
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:26 am

Neo Art wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Hey, I'm not saying the earmark and pork in government is the way to go. It is a stupid, corrupt practice. However, until line item vetoes are allowed, that will continue. Unless of course, we start electing people who are patriots and not politicians.


It's funny how you discuss electing "patriots" while at the same time advocating a blatantly unconstitutional use of executive power.


You are saying the line item veto is unconstitutional? Then amend the constitution. "That will never happen" Then elect those who will.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
KMA is EXONERATED!!
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Who is John Galt?

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The Movie of the Book
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Founded: Oct 29, 2009
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Postby The Movie of the Book » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:26 am

Neo Art wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Hey, I'm not saying the earmark and pork in government is the way to go. It is a stupid, corrupt practice. However, until line item vetoes are allowed, that will continue. Unless of course, we start electing people who are patriots and not politicians.


It's funny how you discuss electing "patriots" while at the same time advocating a blatantly unconstitutional use of executive power.


No true patriot lets a little thing like the constitution get in the way of improving this great nation!
of the Collectable Card Game of the Anime of the Dating Sim.

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Neo Art
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Founded: Jan 09, 2007
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Postby Neo Art » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:26 am

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Neo Art wrote:The idea that you are "forced into labor on virtually any terms" is a demonstrable lie. Even on unemployment benefits (which, by the way KMA, I thought you said unemployment is not welfare, strange you'd use it now), one is not obligated to take ANY job. Merely any job of reasonable equivalent to the recipient's skills, education, and background.

A doctor an unemployment is not obligated to take a job at McDonalds.


Not my words, thiers.


Which you saw fit to bold for emphasis.
if you were Batman you'd be home by now

"Consistency is a matter we are attempting to remedy." - Dread Lady Nathinaca

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