Obama open to the elimination of penny

[Minoriteeburg]

Then the details are stored in a computer and payment taken out at earliest possible time.


If you cant afford wristband or keyring, currency transaction is not likely to affect you.

You could also point out that anyone who can't afford the single dollar items is most likely receiving government services to survive, or bumming on the street. That's a poverty issue, and won't be HARMED by changing from coin to pure denim currency.

Well they might get hurt in a bum fight or something.

[Grenartia]

2. And if you lose the card? Or it gets stolen?

1. Now you're just being silly: What happens when you lose your wallet?

1. You're comparing apples to pickup trucks.

2. Not at all. You're saying the majority should do without something because a small minority can't use it. I'm pointing out that many different minorities do without plenty of things already, and the majority happily continues to use them anyway.

2.A. Yes. That is why we should make life easier for the poor.

I'm willing to lower the barriers to gainful employment to make it easier for them to get jobs. Need transportation to get to work? Fine, here's a subsidy. Need training for a job? Fine, here's a subsidy. Need daycare for your kids so you can work full time? Fine...

Oh, that's not what you meant...

3. But, if we a) have gone to e-money and b) are giving subsidies to the poor, then, um, yes, it would seem silly to design an e-money system that prevents them from getting the subsidy. My understanding is that the US government already provides most subsidies via electronic payment cards or direct deposit into bank accounts, so I guess I guess they've found a way to make that work.

1. A card is easier to lose than an entire wallet.

2. No. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't abolish all non-electronic currency in favor of electronic currency. I'm perfectly fine with allowing it for those who are able to use it. But don't make it mandatory and disallow the usage of alternatives.

3. But they haven't abolished checks and cash payments, either, as far as I know.

[YellowApple]

Well if you had one of these epic natural disasters that is what you could do. Use a check.

Paper is easier. Doesn't require writing shit down, which takes time.

Not even mentioning that what's seeming to be advocated here is abolishing checks as well.

But paper is inexact and prone to being lost just as easily as any other form of currency. Might as well write a check and give exact change.

Also, who said anything about abolishing checks?

[Minoriteeburg]

1. A card is easier to lose than an entire wallet.

A card is easier to replace than a wad of cash. And most places completely refund any money stolen from you if that is the case. They don't do that for cash.

[Dyakovo]

1. A card is easier to lose than an entire wallet.

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

[Saiwania]

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

[Great Nepal]

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

Pray tell how using card, which is better in every sense of word being slave?

[Minoriteeburg]

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

And who exactly are you a slave to?

[AiliailiA]

I've heard this story plenty of times, but I've yet to see it sourced.

That would be because its bullshit.

OK, Fisher not Parker, and NASA payed virtually nothing for the pens ... not a "modest" price so much as a "nominal" one. But I mostly remembered it right.

Paper is easier. Doesn't require writing shit down, which takes time.

Not even mentioning that what's seeming to be advocated here is abolishing checks as well.

But paper is inexact and prone to being lost just as easily as any other form of currency. Might as well write a check and give exact change.

Also, who said anything about abolishing checks?

Checks have a paper trail (who payed, who received, how much and on what date) so are clearly superior to cash. Something like a check is what we should look at for "offline" legal transactions (whenever a card or computing device won't work) but to be as easily auditable as electronic transactions they would need human input to verify signatures, enter hand-written details etc.

I'm thinking tax 'em

[Grenartia]

Paper is easier. Doesn't require writing shit down, which takes time.

Not even mentioning that what's seeming to be advocated here is abolishing checks as well.

Checks are made from paper last I checked. And no we were talking about dollars and cents earlier. I saw no mention of checks.

You know what I was talking about.

Still doesn't mean shit when the internet is down.

Why do you say that? Stores can take cash when the net is down, why couldn't they take electronic payment too? There's no reason to assume all transactions must be processed online in real time. Store and forward will work just fine if the electronic payment system is designed for it. If I were designing an e-money system, you could bet your ass I wouldn't assume the net was up all the time to make it work.

What happens when the power (and your ultra-capacitors) run out, then?

Still need to access your account. Also, your cards are still pretty fucking useless when the internet in an area is down (such as after natural disasters).

Then the details are stored in a computer and payment taken out at earliest possible time.

1. I don't call nearly 1 out of 5 people a 'very tiny minority'.
2A. Granted...
2B. And if you can't afford all that?

If you cant afford wristband or keyring, currency transaction is not likely to affect you. Also with social welfare systems in place in most nations, state will give you a wristband or keyring if you cant afford it. That should cost no more than £20.

Currency transaction affects EVERYBODY, because EVERYBODY needs it. And, too many people fall through cracks in America's social welfare system, so its not inconceivable that people who need these things, and are unable to obtain them through other means may be denied.

I have no clue what 20 British pounds converts to in terms of USD, but what ever that amount is, its that much that can't be used for things like food, rent, gas, and utilities.

[Saiwania]

And who exactly are you a slave to?

The government and banks of course.

[Dyakovo]

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

Congratulations. This ranks right up there with "But I don't have 3 souls" as one of the stupidest responses I've seen in my years here.

[Minoriteeburg]

Checks are made from paper last I checked. And no we were talking about dollars and cents earlier. I saw no mention of checks.

You know what I was talking about.

You just said in this quote that we were advocating abolishing checks, and I said no we haven't, because we haven't.

So no, I don't know what you are talking about.

[Conscentia]

· One shouldn't have to barter because the economy doesn't like one's way of life.
· The Amish are not the only technology avoiders.

One shouldn't have to use cash because "the economy doesn't like one's way of life".

Yet weirdly, those people do use cash instead of bartering. [...]

Not all those I speak of use currency because the economy doesn't like their way of life. Many choose to use physical currency, but don't like the idea of using virtual currency.

[Minoriteeburg]

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

Congratulations. This ranks right up there with "But I don't have 3 souls" as one of the stupidest responses I've seen in my years here.

I'll drink to that.

[Sibirsky]

Why do you say that? Stores can take cash when the net is down, why couldn't they take electronic payment too? There's no reason to assume all transactions must be processed online in real time. Store and forward will work just fine if the electronic payment system is designed for it. If I were designing an e-money system, you could bet your ass I wouldn't assume the net was up all the time to make it work.

^This.

Also most of the major data centers that store all of the transaction information have backup generators so that they stay online when the power goes out.

Unless if we are having a Day After Tomorrow situation, they most likely won't be shut down.

When I worked retail we would sandbag for Christmas. The store did about $3 million in sales, annually. The record for the Saturday before Christmas was $92,000 my 2nd to last year there. Some of our items were for delivery only. Giant mattresses, beds, stuff like that. We would sell the stuff, but not put the orders in all week. Then put them all in the Saturday before Christmas. We did $122,000 my last year. And got a massive bonus for doing $100,000+ from corporate.

[Sibirsky]

1. A card is easier to lose than an entire wallet.

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

And nearly impossible to replace.

[The Black Forrest]

A bill (or several) is just as easy to lose as a card.

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

Wow.......just wow.

I am guessing you are living at home still......

[Minoriteeburg]

And who exactly are you a slave to?

The government and banks of course.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you realize that?

Putting your money in a bank is something you do freely, so how does that make you a slave?

[Minoriteeburg]

It is better to live free and be exposed to risk, than it is to be a slave but remain secure.

Wow.......just wow.

I am guessing you are living at home still......

Doesn't pay a single bill I bet.

[The Black Forrest]

The government and banks of course.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you realize that?

Putting your money in a bank is something you do freely, so how does that make you a slave?

You telling us you don't have a castle and moat to protect your treasure chests?

[Sibirsky]

And who exactly are you a slave to?

The government and banks of course.

And cash versus electronic payments affects this how, exactly?

[Minoriteeburg]

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you realize that?

Putting your money in a bank is something you do freely, so how does that make you a slave?

You telling us you don't have a castle and moat to protect your treasure chests?

No I don't live in England.

[Sibirsky]

You telling us you don't have a castle and moat to protect your treasure chests?

No I don't live in England.

We have some here.

[Dyakovo]

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you realize that?

Putting your money in a bank is something you do freely, so how does that make you a slave?

You telling us you don't have a castle and moat to protect your treasure chests?

Only a very small one...