Obama open to the elimination of penny

[Sibirsky]

They don't, but so what? Not everybody is literate either nor can everybody see, but neither one of those makes the written word a bad idea. In a large, modern society, the lowest common denominator is very low. That shouldn't hold the rest of us back.

So basically, fuck people without access to the internet.

The government already pays for internet access for the poor.

[The Emerald Dawn]

But they're not going to look at it unless if you are buying copious amounts of explosives or whatnot. They don't just go around looking into everyones business for no reason.

Hopefully.

Realistically speaking there are way too many transactions for them to track. So they set rules. For example cash transactions of $10,000 + trigger a report.

They can check what I check out at a library without a warrant though. That's wrong.

Why would it be wrong? The government runs the library, it'd be silly to not give them the ability to LOOK at the records of the company they run.

[AiliailiA]

I never understood the uproar over the gov't looking up what you buy. As long as you have nothing to hide, why should you care?

It's none of their business what I spend my money on.

Yet you trust a bank with that information. (you said before that 90% of your transactions are digital ... necessarily someone has access to that information)

Or what I check out from the library.

Weird. You expect to use a government service without the government knowing about how you use it?

[Grenartia]

So basically, fuck people without access to the internet.

There are these places you see, and they're called Libraries. There is at least one in every city and town in America.

Yes, but they're not always open, and some people may live too far away to reasonably be expected to drive to one. Not to mention that there may be time limits on usage.

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?

These are the problems inherent to eliminating paper currency in favor of electronic currency.

[Conscentia]

Pennies (actually cents) and nickels (actually five cent pieces) both cost more to make that their face value. Get rid of both.

Nickels could be made cheaper by using less expensive metals, so no need to get rid of them yet.

Indeed. That's an option. However, I'm not going to oppose the elimination of the penny in absence of plans to change the penny to make it cheaper to produce.

[Sibirsky]

Hopefully.

Realistically speaking there are way too many transactions for them to track. So they set rules. For example cash transactions of $10,000 + trigger a report.

They can check what I check out at a library without a warrant though. That's wrong.

Why would it be wrong? The government runs the library, it'd be silly to not give them the ability to LOOK at the records of the company they run.

With a warrant because I am a suspect in a criminal investigation? Go for it. Without that, none of their business.

[Sibirsky]

It's none of their business what I spend my money on.

Yet you trust a bank with that information. (you said before that 90% of your transactions are digital ... necessarily someone has access to that information)

Yes. I take a loss in privacy for a gain in convenience.

Or what I check out from the library.

Weird. You expect to use a government service without the government knowing about how you use it?

I mean the Federal government, police FBI etc. Not the Fairfax County Public Library system.

[AiliailiA]

Hopefully.

Realistically speaking there are way too many transactions for them to track. So they set rules. For example cash transactions of $10,000 + trigger a report.

They can check what I check out at a library without a warrant though. That's wrong.

Why would it be wrong? The government runs the library, it'd be silly to not give them the ability to LOOK at the records of the company they run.

Different levels of government I guess. I still think it's weird that anyone would trust a local government with information but not a national government with the same information. Local government is far more likely to be insecure in their data storage, and far more likely to be corrupt.

[Grenartia]

So basically, fuck people without access to the internet.

The government already pays for internet access for the poor.

Source?

And probably not even all the poor. Not to mention that there are certain places in this country where people live where there are NO internet service providers.

[Minoriteeburg]

There are these places you see, and they're called Libraries. There is at least one in every city and town in America.

Yes, but they're not always open, and some people may live too far away to reasonably be expected to drive to one. Not to mention that there may be time limits on usage.

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?

These are the problems inherent to eliminating paper currency in favor of electronic currency.

Libraries are open for a good portion of the day, and you can use it for up to an hour (in the libraries where you have to reserve spots). You can get everything important in your life done in an hour on the internet.

Libraries are open year round minus the gov't holidays.

[Sibirsky]

The government already pays for internet access for the poor.

Source?

And probably not even all the poor. Not to mention that there are certain places in this country where people live where there are NO internet service providers.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/col ... 55315532/1

[Great Nepal]

Yes, but they're not always open, and some people may live too far away to reasonably be expected to drive to one. Not to mention that there may be time limits on usage.

82% of people have access to internet and that number is increasing. This is a non-issue.

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?
These are the problems inherent to eliminating paper currency in favor of electronic currency.

Contact less payment card.

[YellowApple]

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?

There are these cool things called "checks" (or "cheques", if you're British or just like using the letter 'Q').

Here's how it works:

• You fill out the information on the piece of paper that is the check.
• You hand it to the seller.
• The seller deposits it as his/her bank or credit union.
• The seller gets money.

Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

[Northwest Slobovia]

They don't, but so what? Not everybody is literate either nor can everybody see, but neither one of those makes the written word a bad idea. In a large, modern society, the lowest common denominator is very low. That shouldn't hold the rest of us back.

So basically, fuck people without access to the internet.

Are you planning on giving up on writing because some people are blind or music because some people are deaf? I hope not, because either of those would be stupid.

The reality is that being poor, blind, or deaf sucks. We try to help people whose lives suck, but we don't stop the world for them. Since I got cash a little while ago, I know that that ATM has braille printing on it, and there's a button to press to make the ATM talk. But US currency is all the same size, so blind people are on their own keeping it straight. (They fold it in different ways, apparently.) So, we take some steps for them, but don't do without conveniences for ourselves. Not everybody has to deal with a voice-only ATM.

Further, in point of fact:

a) No internet, no online shopping anyway. That sucks. That means you pay more for stuff. As I said, it sucks to be poor.

b) If for some reason the US went to completely electronic-money-only, we'd be foolish to design a system that depended on something as dodgy as today's internet. So, I think the objection is silly.

[Saiwania]

And probably not even all the poor. Not to mention that there are certain places in this country where people live where there are NO internet service providers.

Indeed, if all currency was to be electronic today, it would be a disaster and would backfire tremendously. It would disrupt a lot of people.

[Grenartia]

Yes, but they're not always open, and some people may live too far away to reasonably be expected to drive to one. Not to mention that there may be time limits on usage.

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?

These are the problems inherent to eliminating paper currency in favor of electronic currency.

Libraries are open for a good portion of the day, and you can use it for up to an hour (in the libraries where you have to reserve spots). You can get everything important in your life done in an hour on the internet.

Libraries are open year round minus the gov't holidays.

So what if you have to buy something on a government holiday? Or an unexpected expense pops up after your hour is up, or after the library is closed?

[Great Nepal]

Also, what the fuck happens after a natural disaster when the internet goes down?

There are these cool things called "checks" (or "cheques", if you're British or just like using the letter 'Q').

Here's how it works:

• You fill out the information on the piece of paper that is the check.
• You hand it to the seller.
• The seller deposits it as his/her bank or credit union.
• The seller gets money.

Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

Or, just touch the card on the receiver which will record your information and bank/credit union will transfer money on seller's account.

[Saiwania]

Or, just touch the card on the receiver which will record your information and bank/credit union will transfer money on seller's account.

Or you, (call me crazy) pay cash! Because you actually have the money with you and you don't need a 3rd party to access it!

[YellowApple]

There are these cool things called "checks" (or "cheques", if you're British or just like using the letter 'Q').

Here's how it works:

• You fill out the information on the piece of paper that is the check.
• You hand it to the seller.
• The seller deposits it as his/her bank or credit union.
• The seller gets money.

Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

Or, just touch the card on the receiver which will record your information and bank/credit union will transfer money on seller's account.

But then he'll complain about a potential power outage, in which case those nifty checks are useful.

[AiliailiA]

Yet you trust a bank with that information. (you said before that 90% of your transactions are digital ... necessarily someone has access to that information)

Yes. I take a loss in privacy for a gain in convenience.

I suggest to you that knowledge of all financial transactions (which your bank uses for commercial purposes) would drastically reduce all kinds of property crime other than perhaps vandalism and shoplifting. And as such would be a substantial gain in convenience for you as well as all other law abiding citizens.

Property crime is the vast majority of reported crime, and it's largely motivated by getting money. Without cash of any kind, there would be far less incentive to do armed hold-ups or house burglaries.

Weird. You expect to use a government service without the government knowing about how you use it?

I mean the Federal government, police FBI etc. Not the Fairfax County Public Library system.

Why trust Fairfax County government? Is it because they're too dumb and incompetent to make any use of the information?

[Great Nepal]

So what if you have to buy something on a government holiday? Or an unexpected expense pops up after your hour is up, or after the library is closed?

I dont get the idea that electronic payment means web transaction. In Hong Kong, you can use oyster card to pay for pretty much anything in traditional brick and mortar store. Similar concept can be introduced where customer goes and taps card on reader. Money is taken out of the account and transferred to seller's account.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Why would it be wrong? The government runs the library, it'd be silly to not give them the ability to LOOK at the records of the company they run.

With a warrant because I am a suspect in a criminal investigation? Go for it. Without that, none of their business.

In fact, because of the "Patriot Act", many library systems purge their records of what people check out as soon as books are brought back.

I'm also fascinated by this notion of "the government" as a monolithic agency. At least here in the US, are many levels and jurisdictions of government. So fact that some fundie sheriff in East Nowhere, Georgia would like to know who's read "The Joy of Gay Sex" is thankfully not my problem. "The government", hmph!

[AiliailiA]

Or, just touch the card on the receiver which will record your information and bank/credit union will transfer money on seller's account.

Or you, (call me crazy) pay cash! Because you actually have the money with you and you don't need a 3rd party to access it!

Mighty convenient for anyone thinking of mugging you too.

[Conscentia]

The government already pays for internet access for the poor.

Source?

And probably not even all the poor. Not to mention that there are certain places in this country where people live where there are NO internet service providers.

There's also people who don't want internet access. (The Amish a good example.)

[Great Nepal]

Or, just touch the card on the receiver which will record your information and bank/credit union will transfer money on seller's account.

Or you, (call me crazy) pay cash! Because you actually have the money with you and you don't need a 3rd party to access it!

What will you do with that autographed paper toy? Give it to a guy who deposits it on bank with knowledge that central bank will owe up to its promise. You are still relying on 3rd party for it to be useful.
Its not hard concept. Cards are as much of cash as notes are.