Obama open to the elimination of penny

[Wikipedia and Universe]

This thread is moving way too fast. I think my question just got buried.

[Conscentia]

Finally something positive in this administration.

There has been plenty of positive things from this administration.

[Minoriteeburg]

A police force will be created to control that I am sure.

Also voicing your opinion will go up to at least a nickel as well, since you can no longer do two cents.

The price for your thoughts will have to increase to a nickel as well.

Thanks Obama.

[Great Nepal]

We dont need physical currency therefore, it will be obsolete hence electronic payment will eventually replace physical currency.

We don't need physical documents either. Yet they still exist & are common. And it's far easier to digitalise documents than currency.

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

[Minoriteeburg]

We don't need physical documents either. Yet they still exist & are common. And it's far easier to digitalise documents than currency.

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

Especially with all of the Environmentalism going on these days. It's much greener to be digital.

[Conscentia]

But in this situation the cards aren't the means of exchange. They're a means to access the means of exchange, which is the currency which exists as data.

You could equally make the case that notes/coins aren't means of exchange and on their own, they mean nothing. They are simply means to access part of the actual currency stored in a bank's vaults.

Notes are actually a promise for the central bank to pay up. ("I promise to pay the bearer...")
I think coins are actually money though.

[Sibirsky]

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I didn't watch the video. Is he considering ultimately eliminating the penny entirely from circulation, or is the proposal just to discontinue its minting and production while keeping it in circulation and retaining its status as legal tender? (For example, $2 bills and half-dollar coins are still in circulation and can still buy stuff, even though I believe they've been discontinued.)

I believe it would be allowed to stay in circulation. That makes far more sense. It would remain legal tender. Eventually, prices would be rounded to the nearest nickel.

But, I would be allowed to give two $1 bills and 10 pennies for a $2.10 total.

[Conscentia]

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

Especially with all of the Environmentalism going on these days. It's much greener to be digital.

Recycled paper is greener than data accessed using power obtained from burned coal.

[Dazchan]

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I didn't watch the video. Is he considering ultimately eliminating the penny entirely from circulation, or is the proposal just to discontinue its minting and production while keeping it in circulation and retaining its status as legal tender? (For example, $2 bills and half-dollar coins are still in circulation and can still buy stuff, even though I believe they've been discontinued.)

You're wrong regarding $2 bills and half-dollars, which are both still made.

As for eliminating the penny, keeping them as legal tender while stopping production is the sensible way of doing it. As they get returned to a bank, they get slowly removed from circulation until their existence as legal tender is only theoretical. We did that 20+ years ago in Australia with the 1c and 2c coins.

[Natair]

I have $30 in just pennies.

If he gets rid of the penny...Shit.

Your pennies will still be of value you know.

They may actually be worth MORE than 0.01 due to the fact that they are no longer being created and TECHNICALLY aren't in circulation **officially** >.>

[Minoriteeburg]

Especially with all of the Environmentalism going on these days. It's much greener to be digital.

Recycled paper is greener than data accessed using power obtained from burned coal.

But If Environmentalism does take place, then burning coal will be out of the question.

[The Emerald Dawn]

We shall become nickle wise, pound foolish.

[Conscentia]

We don't need physical documents either. Yet they still exist & are common. And it's far easier to digitalise documents than currency.

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

They haven't yet, and the ability to digitalise documents has been around for a while now.

[Minoriteeburg]

Your pennies will still be of value you know.

They may actually be worth MORE than 0.01 due to the fact that they are no longer being created and TECHNICALLY aren't in circulation **officially** >.>

It'll take decades for that to happen, as I mentioned earlier.

[The Emerald Dawn]

IT will be Nicklewise the clown.

[Free South Califas]

A phone is more convenient than a card? Since when?

Since Google Wallet came out and introduced the ability to wave one's phone over a cash register to pay.

Think about it; why carry a wallet and a phone when your phone is capable of using NFC to transmit/authorize a payment and has a screen to display a photo ID and has the computational power and storage capacity to store and replicate a wide variety of barcode-based cards? The only things lacking on a phone are smartcard emulation and magnetic strips, and both of those can be conceivably obsolesced by NFC.

Also blacklight verification.

Last year I watched the whole series of The West Wing with my partner, and before some of the more violent plot twists, one of the more pointlessly tragic episodes to me was the one with the subplot about abolishing the penny. All through the episode one of the protagonists builds a solid case for stopping production, and frantically lobbies the administration (and Congress IIRC). At the end,

he is informed by another protagonist that even though every reasonable person agrees that we should stop making pennies, it "will never happen" because of the Congressional delegation from Illinois, who want to keep the one piece of currency with Lincoln's face on it.

That is a new design, isn't it? Even if it was around in the early 2000s, same exact post but remove the word "one" from between "the" and "piece".

I almost never carry any cash.

So what on earth do you do when you want to tip someone or make small purchases? With everything being reliant on credit, it is much easier for dumbasses to spend as much as they want and get into lots of debt.

And for employers to steal tips.

No, you're thinking of roads, education, equal protection under the law, and so forth.

------- The joke














------- Your head

I was aware that you thought your comment was humorous.

Utter nonsense. A great many people in the US alone meet the US govt definition of poverty, which itself has an insanely low threshold which does not take the cost of most relevant goods and services into account.

And even those in poverty tend to have cell phones, or at the very least some form of electronic payment, like a debit or credit card. Credit/debit cards are cheap to manufacture, and most credit unions - being non-profit - have very low charges associated with them, if any at all, making them very suitable for those in poverty. It's silly to argue that poor people would be shut out from an all-electronic currency scheme when said poor people are already more than capable of participation.

"Very low charges" are a different matter for people in different socioeconomic circumstances, and I really don't think all this is anywhere near as widespread as is convenient to pretend from a neoliberal position.

Can you prove that all poor people have cell phones, much less cell phone or internet service? I didn't get a cell phone until a year ago and didn't have my own computer until around 3 years ago.

They can use card which will be free.
Or wristband.
Or watch.

Ah, I see. If you're proposing the distribution of free equipment and services along with this plan, that is altogether more reasonable.

[Minoriteeburg]

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

They haven't yet, and the ability to digitalise documents has been around for a while now.

Were talking the future, not tomorrow.

Everything takes a long time to fully phase out. I never said it would happen soon, but you will see it in your lifetime.

[Great Nepal]

You could equally make the case that notes/coins aren't means of exchange and on their own, they mean nothing. They are simply means to access part of the actual currency stored in a bank's vaults.

Notes are actually a promise for the central bank to pay up. ("I promise to pay the bearer...")
I think coins are actually money though.

Yes, so cards are as much of currency as notes are.

Especially with all of the Environmentalism going on these days. It's much greener to be digital.

Recycled paper is greener than data accessed using power obtained from burned coal.

You are comparing best from one side to worst on other. Try recycled paper VS nuclear power instead.

[Saiwania]

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

I see no evidence of that taking place in practice.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

I see no evidence of that taking place in practice.

You've never heard of offices going "paperless"?

[Great Nepal]

Especially with all of the Environmentalism going on these days. It's much greener to be digital.

Recycled paper is greener than data accessed using power obtained from burned coal.

You are comparing best from one side to worst on other. Try recycled paper VS nuclear power.

Which is why physical documents will be phased out as well.

I see no evidence of that taking place in practice.

You dont? We can access most government documents (of developed nations) online. Google is digitalising books to create global library. Offices are going paperless while libraries are being phased out.

[Hallistar]

Anything that's less than a quarter, I don't care much about. Although, I guess giving exact change would be kind of harder

[Conscentia]

Notes are actually a promise for the central bank to pay up. ("I promise to pay the bearer...")
I think coins are actually money though.

Yes, so cards are as much of currency as notes are.

Thing is, I'm all in favour of abolishing notes. To me, cards & coins would be ideal.

[Minoriteeburg]

I see no evidence of that taking place in practice.

You've never heard of offices going "paperless"?

I do paperless billing with all of my utilities.

[Arkiasis]

Anything Canada does is a good idea so yes.