Republican vs Conservative vs Democrat

[Sibirsky]

The person who wrote the above has more beliefs about economics than knowledge.

The person is right. Cap and trade will kill the middle class. The rich don't care, because energy costs are a tiny fraction of their expenses. The poor don't care because they don't pay for their energy. The middle class gets crushed. Multiple times. Minimum wage, again hurts the poor more than it helps them. Welfare does the same.

[Kashindahar]

Welfare does the same.

Yes, yes, someone who isn't able to work would be better off without welfare than with it.

[Allanea]

Can we just get this lame NY-23 thing over with? It's entirely blown out of proportion by all three sides involved.

[Lunatic Goofballs]

Welfare does the same.

Yes, yes, someone who isn't able to work would be better off without welfare than with it.

I was just thinking the same thing. When my father abandoned my mother with a 2 year old daughter and 6 month old son(me) and she had no education, money or hope and after a brief stint on Welfare got her high school diploma and a job, parlaying that eventually into a college degree and owning her own home and raising two successful children, It's clear that Welfare was very damaging to her.

[Whiskey Hill]

The person who wrote the above has more beliefs about economics than knowledge.

The person is right. Cap and trade will kill the middle class. The rich don't care, because energy costs are a tiny fraction of their expenses. The poor don't care because they don't pay for their energy. The middle class gets crushed. Multiple times. Minimum wage, again hurts the poor more than it helps them. Welfare does the same.

Cap & trade, first of all, I don't think is the best policy, a carbon tax probably is. But aside from that, the CBO estimate shows it'll cost the average family only $100. That'll hardly kill the middle class.

There has not been a single situation in the US which one can point to in which an increase in the minimum wage has led directly to an increase in unemployment. Classical economics says this should happen, but it doesn't happen. Why? Because it's wrong.

Welfare is a very vague term. Some welfare programs work. Some don't. Some have worked, but not as they were intended to. I tend to agree with someone, I forget who said it, but they said the best anti-poverty program is a good job. True.

[New Chalcedon]

So: Why is Scozzafava a liberal? Let's examine her votes and stated policy positions.

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

2. Abortion: Pro-choice.

3. LGBT issues: Pro-rights.

4. Military: Pro-veterans' affairs.

Seems to me, the right-wingers are simply unhappy that her first (and only) response to anything Obama will bring up won't be either "You lie!" or "No!"

I have no sympathy for those who claim that she's a RINO. She's the kind of Republican that I (as a liberal) could vote for - I disagree with some of her policies, but at least she's honest and consistent in them. She's close to being a Libertarian.

[Allanea]

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

So anybody who has ever voted against increased taxes is a free market supporter? Wow.

And no. She's nowhere close to being a libertarian.

A libertarian is not simply a person who opposes increases in taxes.

[New Chalcedon]

Allanea, note the rest of my post.

1. She *consistently* votes against tax increases, and for smaller government by extension.

2. She *consistently* supports personal freedoms - the pro-choice, pro-rights etc.

I didn't say that she's *a* libertarian. I said that she's *close to* being one.

Certainly far more so than the typical Republican of late.

[Greed and Death]

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

So anybody who has ever voted against increased taxes is a free market supporter? Wow.

And no. She's nowhere close to being a libertarian.

A libertarian is not simply a person who opposes increases in taxes.

I said libertarian leaning.
If she was a libertarian she wouldn't get elected to state government outside of New Hampshire.

[New Chalcedon]

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

So anybody who has ever voted against increased taxes is a free market supporter? Wow.

And no. She's nowhere close to being a libertarian.

A libertarian is not simply a person who opposes increases in taxes.

I said libertarian leaning.
If she was a libertarian she wouldn't get elected to state government outside of New Hampshire.

I doubt that NH is the only state to elect a Libertarian. After all, Ron Paul still represents TX-14.

*Toddles off to research numbers*

They claim 207 elected candidates (i.e., candidates operating with the party's endorsement) at state and local levels across the US.

[Allanea]

1. She *consistently* votes against tax increases, and for smaller government by extension.

Except:

Voting For a bill that would have removed an income tax credit for people with income over $250,000 and taxing online merchants and increasing cigarette taxes.

She supports increasing state spending on education.

Her ratings are here:

right here.

[Allanea]

2. She *consistently* supports personal freedoms - the pro-choice, pro-rights etc.

Is this why NARAL Pro-Choice America gave her a mixed rating?

[Kantria]

She supports increasing state spending on education.

No!

[New Chalcedon]

Fair enough, Allanea. So she's not a dyed-in-the-wool Libertarian.

First, I never said she was. She's close to being one.

Second, I will paraphrase to you what Newt Gingrich said to certain Republicans recently (the man's slime, but he's smart):

If you want to remain totally ideologically pure, you will be in the minority forever.

At any rate, I believe it was Newt. I may be wrong about who it was who said it - it remains good advice. In order to get anything achieved in politics, you need to compromise on occasion.

[Greed and Death]

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

So anybody who has ever voted against increased taxes is a free market supporter? Wow.

And no. She's nowhere close to being a libertarian.

A libertarian is not simply a person who opposes increases in taxes.

I said libertarian leaning.
If she was a libertarian she wouldn't get elected to state government outside of New Hampshire.

I doubt that NH is the only state to elect a Libertarian. After all, Ron Paul still represents TX-14.

*Toddles off to research numbers*

They claim 207 elected candidates (i.e., candidates operating with the party's endorsement) at state and local levels across the US.

Ron paul is in the republican party. Still.
Most of them local. Mayors, city councilmen, and so on. the positions you can win by being a popular local.

[New Chalcedon]

1. The Economy: Scozzafava is apparently a believer in the power of the free market, voting against increased taxes multiple times in her time in the Assembly.

So anybody who has ever voted against increased taxes is a free market supporter? Wow.

And no. She's nowhere close to being a libertarian.

A libertarian is not simply a person who opposes increases in taxes.

I said libertarian leaning.
If she was a libertarian she wouldn't get elected to state government outside of New Hampshire.

I doubt that NH is the only state to elect a Libertarian. After all, Ron Paul still represents TX-14.

*Toddles off to research numbers*

They claim 207 elected candidates (i.e., candidates operating with the party's endorsement) at state and local levels across the US.

Ron paul is in the republican party. Still.
Most of them local. Mayors, city councilmen, and so on. the positions you can win by being a popular local.

Granted, and granted. However, *most* =/= *all*.

Also, I wonder how long Paul will remain Repub - he's part of a small and shrinking minority of the GOP that actually holds reasonably firm to thier principles, and McConnell and Boehner can't abide that sort of Republican - it doesn't occur to them that if they actually started taking stands on principle, rather than automatic naysaying or perceived political advantage, people might actually respect them and vote for them more.

[Allanea]

I'll see your Newt and raise you a Mark:

“If more Republicans were willing to go down to the floor and lose..., we'd win more as conservatives.”

[Sibirsky]

Welfare does the same.

Yes, yes, someone who isn't able to work would be better off without welfare than with it.

I was just thinking the same thing. When my father abandoned my mother with a 2 year old daughter and 6 month old son(me) and she had no education, money or hope and after a brief stint on Welfare got her high school diploma and a job, parlaying that eventually into a college degree and owning her own home and raising two successful children, It's clear that Welfare was very damaging to her.

Very well. I am not talking about brief stints on welfare.

[Sibirsky]

The person who wrote the above has more beliefs about economics than knowledge.

The person is right. Cap and trade will kill the middle class. The rich don't care, because energy costs are a tiny fraction of their expenses. The poor don't care because they don't pay for their energy. The middle class gets crushed. Multiple times. Minimum wage, again hurts the poor more than it helps them. Welfare does the same.

Cap & trade, first of all, I don't think is the best policy, a carbon tax probably is. But aside from that, the CBO estimate shows it'll cost the average family only $100. That'll hardly kill the middle class.

There has not been a single situation in the US which one can point to in which an increase in the minimum wage has led directly to an increase in unemployment. Classical economics says this should happen, but it doesn't happen. Why? Because it's wrong.

Welfare is a very vague term. Some welfare programs work. Some don't. Some have worked, but not as they were intended to. I tend to agree with someone, I forget who said it, but they said the best anti-poverty program is a good job. True.

The CBO, like any government organization, notoriously bad at estimating costs.

The best anti-poverty program is a good job. I love it.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

Sibirsky, if you love free speech and democratic rights, try to be more like Whiskey Hill here. And less with the "W00t, TWO parties! Now THIS is FREEDOM! YAY for MY party!" childish rubbish. Partisanism when you recognize two parties, is just one better than partisanism when there is only one.

And where do you see me saying that? Besides, the Democrats are for bigger government, and state so, which is fine, but the Republicans are for bigger government also, even thought hey say they're for smaller government, I am for neither ones of the morons.

Good, good. I find myself in a similar position.

Except that I am for bigger government, not smaller as you are. And what I see is government growing, but not fast enough to keep up with the economic power of corporations.

Yes, you are right that government power is growing. But I think I am also right, in thinking that is is shrinking relative to other seats of power.

Perhaps the common point is that in our information age, where power lies is becoming more plain, more explicit, and less hidden behind "legitimacy". This has to be good. If anyone or any collective has appropriated some of your power or mine, or if we unwittingly handed our power over to them, then best we should know. Even if we cannot claim it back.

We should know what is done in our name. With our money. With our authority. It can only serve our interests to know.

If we would rebel, at cost and risk to ourselves, better that we know clearly what we rebel against. Not just "fight the power."

If there was some cause of the two-party system ... some specific feature of the electoral system which tended to make only two sides from the diversity of intentions among the people ... that should be our target, rather than either or both of the factions which benefit from it. Both of them are just doing what parties should, taking all the power they can get.

[Neo Art]

I fully, truly, and UTTERLY support any conservative 3rd party candidates. I wholeheartedly encourage them to field conservative party candidates in any election.

Splitting the right wing vote would be the single best thing to happen to the democratic party.

[Czardas]

Welfare does the same.

Yes, yes, someone who isn't able to work would be better off without welfare than with it.

I was just thinking the same thing. When my father abandoned my mother with a 2 year old daughter and 6 month old son(me) and she had no education, money or hope and after a brief stint on Welfare got her high school diploma and a job, parlaying that eventually into a college degree and owning her own home and raising two successful children, It's clear that Welfare was very damaging to her.

Very well. I am not talking about brief stints on welfare.

Since most of the use of welfare is for brief stints, you then agree that welfare is generally beneficial to the poor, only harming a small proportion who try to make it their sole source of income?

[Les Drapeaux Brulants]

I don't know where Mrs. Scozzafava economic views lie. She seems as if she is one of the libertarian leaning republicans.
though it is hard to tell because of some of the endorsements she has gotten.

If this is the case this could be the turning point between if the GOP stays a Christian values orientated party, or becomes a more libertarian leaning party.

Got all that from her campaign page, huh?

As a state assemblywoman, she voted for massive tax increases, Democratic budgets and a $180 million state bank bailout. She also supported the trillion-dollar federal stimulus package — which every House Republican voted against. She supports the federal “card-check” legislation. Worst of all, The Daily Kos endorses her. What could be worse?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

WOO HOO Independent Conservatives FTW

You see, the reason people are beginning to vote for the Independent Conservative is that they have been lied to for the better part of 10 years. It makes no difference, Blue or Red, Republican or Democrat. They both have sold out to the special interest groups and have become an oligarchy.

It is time we have Patriots, NOT politicians running this great country.

[Kashindahar]

WOO HOO Independent Conservatives FTW

You see, the reason people are beginning to vote for the Independent Conservative is that they have been lied to for the better part of 10 years. It makes no difference, Blue or Red, Republican or Democrat. They both have sold out to the special interest groups and have become an oligarchy.

It is time we have Patriots, NOT politicians running this great country.

So why are you trying to become a politician?