NationStates

New Chalcedon wrote:

Choronzon wrote:[Citation needed]

You won't get one worth the electrons it tortures - remember, Hippostania (a Finn) is more American than every single person who voted for Obama.

And believes in nation building so strongly that he will advocate for military intervention in any conflict while dodging his own country's draft.

Spiritwolf wrote:Screw entitlements!!!

Why do you hate freedom and America so much?

Anyone citing HuffPo for anything immediately sets his credibility circling the bowl.

As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009, and who was at the 9/12 March with about a million or so of my best friends, I submit that the OP speaks of what he does not know. To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join, that nobody I know in any Tea Party organization gives a rat's rear about tobacco (I don't even know any smokers who are in Tea Party) other than a general opposition to excessive government regulation of any aspect of citizens' lives, and that for every dollar the dreaded Koch Brothers contribute to conservative causes, an order of magnitude more, at the least, goes to extreme-left causes from a whole rogues' gallery of extreme-left, anti-American individuals, groups and foundations.

The entire so-called "study" is nothing but an exercise is left-wing mendacity. But that's typical with the extreme left, and indicative of how much they fear that patriotic Americans will eventually take effective action to reduce or, hopefully, eliminate the political power of the left once and for all.

Neo Mitanni wrote:To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join

That's the amazing part. They got you to do it for free, and had you believing it was your idea the whole time.

I mean, as a marketting campaign it's down right brilliant. It's not just getting you to DRINK the kool-aid, it's getting you to hop into your car, drive to the store, buy it, drive back home, mix it, THEN drink it. And having you believe that it was a good idea the whole while.

I wouldn't be able to accurately explain how the entire tea party movement fell for it hook line and sinker. Thank god you showed up to demonstrate it so thoroughly.

Neo Mitanni wrote:Anyone citing HuffPo for anything immediately sets his credibility circling the bowl.

As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009, and who was at the 9/12 March with about a million or so of my best friends, I submit that the OP speaks of what he does not know. To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join, that nobody I know in any Tea Party organization gives a rat's rear about tobacco (I don't even know any smokers who are in Tea Party) other than a general opposition to excessive government regulation of any aspect of citizens' lives, and that for every dollar the dreaded Koch Brothers contribute to conservative causes, an order of magnitude more, at the least, goes to extreme-left causes from a whole rogues' gallery of extreme-left, anti-American individuals, groups and foundations.

The entire so-called "study" is nothing but an exercise is left-wing mendacity. But that's typical with the extreme left, and indicative of how much they fear that patriotic Americans will eventually take effective action to reduce or, hopefully, eliminate the political power of the left once and for all.

Do you even know what left-wing means?

Neo Mitanni wrote:Anyone citing HuffPo for anything immediately sets his credibility circling the bowl.

HuffPo cited a study.

Please, feel free to point out what exactly was wrong with the study, the methods it employed, etc.

As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009, and who was at the 9/12 March with about a million or so of my best friends, I submit that the OP speaks of what he does not know. To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join,

Go figure, bigoted conservatives angry that the black guy won didn't need prompting to go hold up racist signs and wave their boomsticks around.

that nobody I know in any Tea Party organization gives a rat's rear about tobacco (I don't even know any smokers who are in Tea Party) other than a general opposition to excessive government regulation of any aspect of citizens' lives,

Except for the Tobacco companies, which funded the damn thing.

and that for every dollar the dreaded Koch Brothers contribute to conservative causes, an order of magnitude more, at the least, goes to extreme-left causes from a whole rogues' gallery of extreme-left, anti-American individuals, groups and foundations.

Source

The entire so-called "study" is nothing but an exercise is left-wing mendacity.

Feel free to get into specifics. Because right now its the deranged ramblings of an angry tea partier next to a peer reviewed study.

Guess which one has way more credibility outside the FOX echo chamber?

But that's typical with the extreme left, and indicative of how much they fear that patriotic Americans will eventually take effective action to reduce or, hopefully, eliminate the political power of the left once and for all.

How'd that whole "rise up and crush the left and TAKE MY COUNTRY BACK FROM THE NIGGER!" work last election?

Face it, your astroturffed band of corporate shills is way outside the mainstream. You were rejected, and your slow death is inevitable.

Neo Art wrote:

Neo Mitanni wrote:To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join

That's the amazing part. They got you to do it for free, and had you believing it was your idea the whole time.

I mean, as a marketting campaign it's down right brilliant. It's not just getting you to DRINK the kool-aid, it's getting you to hop into your car, drive to the store, buy it, drive back home, mix it, THEN drink it. And having you believe that it was a good idea the whole while.

I wouldn't be able to accurately explain how the entire tea party movement fell for it hook line and sinker. Thank god you showed up to demonstrate it so thoroughly.

Its not really that surprising. It wasn't going to take much to get the Republican base to go hold up pictures of Obama as a witch doctor and shriek about "TAKING THEIR COUNTRY BACK [from the black guy]." And, because FOX and its subsidiaries are the only place from which these people get their news, all they had to do was repeat the word "grassroots" over and over again and call anyone who said otherwise a shill for the tax and spend liberal establishment.

I mean, its not like FOX has a hard time conning its viewing base.

Vashtanaraada wrote:Corrupted capitalist pigs. right from the start.

^thus. If this is true, I'm astonished and horrified. It shows how...how conspiratory the Republicans and Greedy Hypercapitalist Lunatics are.
This Messianic Jew guy I know was wrong...the Illuminati is not in allegiance with Obama (in spirit)...they're allied with...THE KOCH BROTHERS!
Surprise!
Oh what the fuck, this is scary. A twenty-year...no 30 year old plan was waiting in the wings to crash the country and save the Hypercapitalists when they fucked the whole nation up. Again. I wonder what's next, I wonder what things they're planning.
Again, this could be just a conspiracy theory and Ron Paul and his Libertarian buddies probably had a smart idea for themselves. It wasn't enough to get them to become Aynrandtheocratic leaders of the country, though.

Spiritwolf wrote:I dont care how the TEA Party got started........ i dont care who started it.......... I really dont even care why it was started........... All I care about is that the TEA Party is taking a stand AGAINST MORE FRIGGIN TAXES!!!!!! We the People can and should SHUT DOWN the current government where it stands and just start over because this government is OUT OF CONTROL when it comes to levying more and more and more friggin taxes on the poor and already OVERTAXED American population. Screw entitlements!!! Screw more taxes!!! It's time we lived in a FREE America!!!

I think we should tax random word capitalization.

Neo Mitanni wrote:Anyone citing HuffPo for anything immediately sets his credibility circling the bowl.

Which is why I included a link to a peer reviewed study. You know, the kind of thing that defines "credible source"?

As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009, and who was at the 9/12 March with about a million or so of my best friends, I submit that the OP speaks of what he does not know.

Ok, proceed.

To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join,

Duh, why would they? You're a replaceable cog. The money went to event licenses, media promotion, administration and organization. Something doesn't get that big overnight without serious cash greasing the wheels to let it happen.

that nobody I know in any Tea Party organization gives a rat's rear about tobacco (I don't even know any smokers who are in Tea Party)

Operative words underlined.

other than a general opposition to excessive government regulation of any aspect of citizens' lives,

Which is exactly what the point was. They created an atmosphere of knee-jerk opposition to any and all regulation so that they would benefit from an umbrella effect.

and that for every dollar the dreaded Koch Brothers contribute to conservative causes, an order of magnitude more, at the least, goes to extreme-left causes from a whole rogues' gallery of extreme-left, anti-American individuals, groups and foundations.

Source? Also, few things are more anti-American than claiming a duly and openly elected official is illegitimately in office. Or have you forgotten the 1860s?

The entire so-called "study" is nothing but an exercise is left-wing mendacity.

Source?

But that's typical with the extreme left,

Define "extreme left".

and indicative of how much they fear that patriotic Americans

Actually, I fear mislead Americans being used against their own interests by highly unpatriotic plutocrats and theocrats.

will eventually take effective action to reduce or, hopefully, eliminate the political power of the left once and for all.

And see, this is completely ridiculous. You say it's the "extreme" left that is the problem, and your solution is to propose destruction of the entire left. That's so far against both democratic principles, and basic civil decency, that I can't even fathom it. I find the extreme right to be a problem, but I wish for their removal from the right, not the rights removal from politics. Just because I generally disagree with someone doesn't mean their presence is not valuable in keeping me from going off the deep end.

Wikkiwallana wrote:

Neo Mitanni wrote:Operative words underlined.

Oh I'm not even willing to go that far. I'm not even going to pull the "ehh, that's just an anicdote" line. I'm fully willing to believe him when he says that most of the people don't care about the tobacco lobby, and don't support the tobacco lobby, or any of the other corporate backers.

That's the entire point

That this, as a group, was so willing to be blinded by their own biases that they ended up supporting industries they don't even like

And for what?. Losing the senate, losing the white house, losing every single policy objective you've ever had, losing same sex marriage votes across the country, losing attempts to stop the Affordable Care act, both in the legislature and the courts, primarying republican candidates who had a shot at winning only to lose to democrats in the election, so deeply dividing the House that the majority leadership of YOUR OWN PARTY has taken steps to neuter you in the political process, and so disgusted huge demographics of people that you practically handed the white house right back to the guy you were so desperate to defeat.

They filled the pockets of corporate interests who didnt give a damn about them, accomplished absolutely nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Akin lost. Brown lost. O'Donnell lost. Koster lost. Romney/Ryan lost. You lost on the fiscal cliff, you lost on the debt ceiling, you're losing on sequester. You lost on Hagel, you lost on Obamacare.

You greased the palms of interests you don't even agree with and gained......nothing.

No wonder you're all so angry all the time.

Wikkiwallana wrote:So, what say you NSG? Surprised? Alarmed? Pleased? Indifferent? Hungry?

Yes.

Hippostania wrote:[Edit: Crazy-ass claim.]

Lolcite. Also relevance, for a movement that is known to have been organized by a small handful of mostly anarchist activists in New York, like the anthropologist David Graeber and the like. If the Media Committee of Occupy Waukeegan has accepted a donation from Ritz Camera (and I haven't heard of anything like that yet but I'm keeping an open mind), that wouldn't be relevant to the movement as a whole. But then, you'd know that if you had the most basic understanding of the movement's structure, or of US politics.

BTW, as far as I can tell, the regime most hostile to the US right now is the US government.

(ETA: I'll admit, Hippo has pulled a number on us by getting us to repeat this claim for him, perhaps...)

Conscentia wrote:

Insane Kidney Mentality wrote:Well, there is an American flag on the moon...

They aren't American flags any more. They're white, with the colour having faded away completely.

Awesome, you leave the Moon for long enough and your flag automatically signals your surrender

Chinese Regions wrote:While I think the OWS are just as stupid as the Tea Party, if not worse

You might not like it, but the movement inspired by anthropologists' intensive study of anarchistic decision-making structures throughout history is anything but "stupid". You might sensibly argue that it is misguided (though I'd at least partially disagree), but not that it is "stupid". The Tea Party, on the other hand, derives its analysis entirely from astroturfed propaganda. It is a hollow mimicry at best.

Condunum wrote:

Conscentia wrote:There are plenty of people who don't know that it's not possible to own the moon.

And the all caps about martians didn't give it off?

I appreciated the fact Conscentia shared.

Neo Mitanni wrote: To address just a few points, I can say with little fear of contradiction that nobody paid, prompted or encouraged me to join

Irrelevant.

, that nobody I know in any Tea Party organization gives a rat's rear about tobacco (I don't even know any smokers who are in Tea Party) other than a general opposition to excessive government regulation of any aspect of citizens' lives

Well, that's a convenient reaction to have to the topic, isn't it? Funny...the government preventing the distribution or seizure of free goods and services like drugs and healthcare is a fine way to regulate an aspect of citizens' lives judging from your inaction. You (I'm referring to the whole TP) also seem fine with the government regulating or eliminating the previously accepted right to organize in the workplace. Why such a different tune there?

and that for every dollar the dreaded Koch Brothers contribute to conservative causes, an order of magnitude more, at the least, goes to extreme-left causes from a whole rogues' gallery of extreme-left, anti-American individuals, groups and foundations.

Many citations needed for this bizarre claim, which seems far out of touch with the actual statistics.

The entire so-called "study" is nothing but an exercise is left-wing mendacity. But that's typical with the extreme left, and indicative of how much they fear that patriotic Americans will eventually take effective action to reduce or, hopefully, eliminate the political power of the left once and for all.

I thought it wasn't OK to excessively regulate any aspect of citizens' lives. Leftist citizens are exempt now, I suppose?

Free South Califas wrote:

Conscentia wrote:They aren't American flags any more. They're white, with the colour having faded away completely.

Awesome, you leave the Moon for long enough and your flag automatically signals your surrender

It is indeed awesome.

Free South Califas wrote:

Condunum wrote:And the all caps about martians didn't give it off?

I appreciated the fact Conscentia shared.

Thank-you.

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:

Spiritwolf wrote:Screw entitlements!!!

Why do you hate freedom and America so much?

Saying screw entitlements is literally saying screw freedom. Freedom is a right, and therefore an entitlement.

Neo Mitanni wrote:As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009

Why do you hate freedom so much? Why do you hate America so much?

Condunum wrote:

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:Why do you hate freedom and America so much?

Saying screw entitlements is literally saying screw freedom. Freedom is a right, and therefore an entitlement.

I disagree.

Well, no, in fairness, the Tea Party as an entity is more that corporate shills. It's corporate shills and people too unaware to recognize they're being manipulated by corporate shills.

This

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:

Neo Mitanni wrote:As someone who has been involved with Tea Party since April 15, 2009

Why do you hate freedom so much? Why do you hate America so much?

Bluth, this is the second time you asked why someone hates freedom without afterwards saying they'd would know better if they were a Christian. Are you feeling ok?

Edit: typo

Spiritwolf wrote:I dont care how the TEA Party got started........ i dont care who started it.......... I really dont even care why it was started........... All I care about is that the TEA Party is taking a stand AGAINST MORE FRIGGIN TAXES!!!!!! We the People can and should SHUT DOWN the current government where it stands and just start over because this government is OUT OF CONTROL when it comes to levying more and more and more friggin taxes on the poor and already OVERTAXED American population. Screw entitlements!!! Screw more taxes!!! It's time we lived in a FREE America!!!

Tea Party Organizer: "They've bled us white, the bastards! They've taken everything we had, not just from us, but from our fathers! And our fathers fathers!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And from our fathers fathers fathers!"

Tea Party Organizer: "Yes."

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And our fathers fathers fathers fathers!"

Tea Party Organizer: "All right, David, don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?"

Man Holding 'Government out of Medicare' sign: "Sewers?"

Tea Party Organizer: "Oh, yeah. They gave us that, that's true."

Masked Activist: "And sanitation!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "Oh, yes, sanitation, Charles...You remember what the country used to be like.

Tea Party Organizer: "All right, I'll grant you that sewers and sanitation are two things the government HAS done..."

Thoughtful activist: "And the roads..."

Tea Party Organizer: (sharply) "Well yes obviously the roads...the roads go without saying. But apart from sewers, sanitation and roads..."

Another Masked Activist: "Cheap gasoline?"

Other Voices: "The internet...GPS...education..."

Tea Party Organizer: "Yes...all right, fair enough..."

Activist near the front: "And the fire department."

Thoughtful activist: "Oh yes! True!"

Smoking activist: "That's true, Charles. That's something we'd miss if the government was gone."

Masked Activist at the Back: "The FDA!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And it's safe to walk the streets at night now."

Smoking activist: "Yes, they certainly know how to keep order..." (general nodding) "...let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this."

(Murmurs of general agreement)

Tea Party Organizer: "All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and cheap gasoline and the internet and GPS and public education and roads and not being burned alive and the FDA and public order... what has the government done for us?"

Thoughtful Activist: "Brought the post!"

Tea Party Organizer: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) "What!? Oh..." (scornfully) "The post, yes... shut up!"

Conscentia wrote:

Condunum wrote:Saying screw entitlements is literally saying screw freedom. Freedom is a right, and therefore an entitlement.

I disagree.

I wouldn't.
"An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. A "right" is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an "entitlement" is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society."

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:

Spiritwolf wrote:I dont care how the TEA Party got started........ i dont care who started it.......... I really dont even care why it was started........... All I care about is that the TEA Party is taking a stand AGAINST MORE FRIGGIN TAXES!!!!!! We the People can and should SHUT DOWN the current government where it stands and just start over because this government is OUT OF CONTROL when it comes to levying more and more and more friggin taxes on the poor and already OVERTAXED American population. Screw entitlements!!! Screw more taxes!!! It's time we lived in a FREE America!!!

Tea Party Organizer: "They've bled us white, the bastards! They've taken everything we had, not just from us, but from our fathers! And our fathers fathers!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And from our fathers fathers fathers!"

Tea Party Organizer: "Yes."

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And our fathers fathers fathers fathers!"

Tea Party Organizer: "All right, David, don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?"

Man Holding 'Government out of Medicare' sign: "Sewers?"

Tea Party Organizer: "Oh, yeah. They gave us that, that's true."

Masked Activist: "And sanitation!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "Oh, yes, sanitation, Charles...You remember what the country used to be like.

Tea Party Organizer: "All right, I'll grant you that sewers and sanitation are two things the government HAS done..."

Thoughtful activist: "And the roads..."

Tea Party Organizer: (sharply) "Well yes obviously the roads...the roads go without saying. But apart from sewers, sanitation and roads..."

Another Masked Activist: "Cheap gasoline?"

Other Voices: "The internet...GPS...education..."

Tea Party Organizer: "Yes...all right, fair enough..."

Activist near the front: "And the fire department."

Thoughtful activist: "Oh yes! True!"

Smoking activist: "That's true, Charles. That's something we'd miss if the government was gone."

Masked Activist at the Back: "The FDA!"

Fervent Tea Party Activist: "And it's safe to walk the streets at night now."

Smoking activist: "Yes, they certainly know how to keep order..." (general nodding) "...let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this."

(Murmurs of general agreement)

Tea Party Organizer: "All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and cheap gasoline and the internet and GPS and public education and roads and not being burned alive and the FDA and public order... what has the government done for us?"

Thoughtful Activist: "Brought the post!"

Tea Party Organizer: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) "What!? Oh..." (scornfully) "The post, yes... shut up!"

Yes.

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:Thoughtful Activist: "Brought the post!"

the post

Anti-American infiltrator! Caught you red handed! No good commie foreigners like you get sent back to Mexico.

Wikkiwallana wrote:

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:Thoughtful Activist: "Brought the post!"

the post

Anti-American infiltrator! Caught you red handed! No good commie foreigners like you get sent back to Mexico.

It's a British production

Such blatant high-jacking of a nations political structure for ones own gain enrages me.

Donations should be removed by politics if one has a democracy, political parties should be funded by the government itself after meeting the requirements to become a political party. Requirements which should be relaxed to practically non-existent so such a system would function fairly and properly.

Otherwise your democracy is broken automatically by basic human greed.