Free Cellphones and minutes for Welfare

[Jocabia]

But it's so much more fun on here.

I've seen two threads by you so far. One you were ranting about Obamacare for three days before finally admitting you didn't actually know what it was. The second one you ranted about people gaming the system and then admitted that you were one of those people. I can't wait for the next thread. I wonder what it will be called. "I'm so tired of people who use latin in their usernames." Or perhaps "why do so many people make threads about things they don't really know about?"

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

Because not every dollar I give to taxes go to help people who need it. It goes for porkbarrel projects. it goes into the pockets of greedy politicians. It goes to those who are cheating the system.

How do you ensure your 10% tithe is all going to people who need it. Does your pastor go out and personally inspect each purchase when doling out charity? Does your pastor get any money, have a car, etc.? Does he spend any of that money on the church itself rather than just giving 100% of it out as charity? Sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare this church of yours.

LDS Bishops do not get paid by the church. There are at least 2 categories of tithing funds. One, which is generally regarded as 10% goes into the "general tithing fund" for the church. This is used to build temples and churches, operate the churchhouses (utilities/maintenance), among other things.

The second part "Fast Offerings" is when, on the first Sunday of the month, members fast for 24 hours and donate the money they would have spent on food to the "Fast Offering Fund". Those funds are consecrated for the welfare of the members and the people in the ward's boundaries. If there is money left over, it goes to the Church for the general welfare fund. Most members donate way more than 24 hours worth of food. This is why we have a very generous Church welfare program.

The Bishop does not give money to the recipient. They bring in the bills and the Bishop makes out the checks to the persons on the bills.

How do you ensure there is no fraud in the system? Someone could set up a holding company, preferably in the Cayman Islands for tax shielding purposes, and call it "Joe's Heating Company." Hire some employees with a 10% commission and send them off to infiltrate the church with fake bills and sob stories about how they would freeze to death if they didn't have those precious dollars.

Sounds pretty dubious this Church of yours, how do you ensure that none of the officials in the church are skimming any of the money off the top either? Does anyone audit their books? Are donators issued receipts so that the money can be properly accounted for on those books? Do they have any books at all? This is a total financial nightmare.

[Jocabia]

Do we really want to talk about my politics here. I could talk for hours and hours and pages and pages. You dont know anything about me.

Try here IndyCons

Why do you hate America?

I love America. Scratch that. I love what America used to be, and what America can be again. Right now, America is heading down a dangerous road. We need to turn her around and put her back to following "The Iron Rod"

What America used to be? You mean back when it denied rights to minorities and women? Back when people like the LDS were oppressed? Back then?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Because not every dollar I give to taxes go to help people who need it. It goes for porkbarrel projects. it goes into the pockets of greedy politicians. It goes to those who are cheating the system.

How do you ensure your 10% tithe is all going to people who need it. Does your pastor go out and personally inspect each purchase when doling out charity? Does your pastor get any money, have a car, etc.? Does he spend any of that money on the church itself rather than just giving 100% of it out as charity? Sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare this church of yours.

LDS Bishops do not get paid by the church. There are at least 2 categories of tithing funds. One, which is generally regarded as 10% goes into the "general tithing fund" for the church. This is used to build temples and churches, operate the churchhouses (utilities/maintenance), among other things.

The second part "Fast Offerings" is when, on the first Sunday of the month, members fast for 24 hours and donate the money they would have spent on food to the "Fast Offering Fund". Those funds are consecrated for the welfare of the members and the people in the ward's boundaries. If there is money left over, it goes to the Church for the general welfare fund. Most members donate way more than 24 hours worth of food. This is why we have a very generous Church welfare program.

The Bishop does not give money to the recipient. They bring in the bills and the Bishop makes out the checks to the persons on the bills.

How do you ensure there is no fraud in the system. Someone could set up a holding company, preferably in the Cayman Islands for tax shielding purposes, and call it "Joe's Heating Company." Hire some employees with a 10% commission and send them off to infiltrate the church with fake bills and sob stories about how they would freeze to death if they didn't have those precious dollars.

Sounds pretty dubious this Church of yours, how do you ensure that none of the officials in the church are skimming any of the money off the top either? Does anyone audit their books? Are donators issued receipts so that the money can be properly accounted for on those books? Do they have any books at all? This is a total financial nightmare.

We have receipts for tithing. They have books. I am sure there are cases in which Bishops were skimming or members were skimming. However, Bishops are given certain keys when they are ordainen to be Bishops. One key is that of "discernment". Because they are ordained to be "Judges over Israel", this gift or key is essential.

They are given the right to discern the scams and such. Some may not be in tune to the Holy Spirit enough to use it though, and they dont tend to be Bishops long.

[The_pantless_hero]

This is getting progressively more asinine. I think it's because Mormonism was brought into it.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

here is an image of the slip. It has two copies, one for the Church, one for your records. BTW, at the end of the year, each tithe payer has a meeting with the Bishop called "Tithing Settlement" where they reconcile thier records with the Church's to make sure both are in synch.

[Neo Art]

We have receipts for tithing. They have books. I am sure there are cases in which Bishops were skimming or members were skimming. However, Bishops are given certain keys when they are ordainen to be Bishops. One key is that of "discernment". Because they are ordained to be "Judges over Israel", this gift or key is essential.

They are given the right to discern the scams and such. Some may not be in tune to the Holy Spirit enough to use it though, and they dont tend to be Bishops long.

This is a horrendous threadjack but...to make sure I get this straight, bishops can discern who is scamming the system because....god tells them?

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

We have receipts for tithing. They have books. I am sure there are cases in which Bishops were skimming or members were skimming. However, Bishops are given certain keys when they are ordainen to be Bishops. One key is that of "discernment". Because they are ordained to be "Judges over Israel", this gift or key is essential.

They are given the right to discern the scams and such. Some may not be in tune to the Holy Spirit enough to use it though, and they dont tend to be Bishops long.

So you retract your previous statement bitching about waste in the government, and agree that you are completely unable to verify that there is not equal or greater waste going on in this church of yours?

[KiloMikeAlpha]

This is getting progressively more asinine. I think it's because Mormonism was brought into it.

Sounds like you are afraid of well dressed young men in white shirts riding bikes. Ohhh scary.

[The_pantless_hero]

This is a horrendous threadjack but...to make sure I get this straight, bishops can discern who is scamming the system because....god tells them?

I told you Mormonism was making the thread more asinine. Which is quite the accomplishment provided the thread is about a highly religious person is being a huge anti-poor people dick.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

We have receipts for tithing. They have books. I am sure there are cases in which Bishops were skimming or members were skimming. However, Bishops are given certain keys when they are ordainen to be Bishops. One key is that of "discernment". Because they are ordained to be "Judges over Israel", this gift or key is essential.

They are given the right to discern the scams and such. Some may not be in tune to the Holy Spirit enough to use it though, and they dont tend to be Bishops long.

This is a horrendous threadjack but...to make sure I get this straight, bishops can discern who is scamming the system because....god tells them?

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

This is a horrendous threadjack but...to make sure I get this straight, bishops can discern who is scamming the system because....god tells them?

I told you Mormonism was making the thread more asinine. Which is quite the accomplishment provided the thread is about a highly religious person is being a huge anti-poor people dick.

Because I prefer to handle things like this myself, I will until I cant. Please, dont call me a dick. It is offensive and flaming. You dont have to apologize, just refrain from doing it again.

[Jocabia]

We have receipts for tithing. They have books. I am sure there are cases in which Bishops were skimming or members were skimming. However, Bishops are given certain keys when they are ordainen to be Bishops. One key is that of "discernment". Because they are ordained to be "Judges over Israel", this gift or key is essential.

They are given the right to discern the scams and such. Some may not be in tune to the Holy Spirit enough to use it though, and they dont tend to be Bishops long.

This is a horrendous threadjack but...to make sure I get this straight, bishops can discern who is scamming the system because....god tells them?

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Many of our politicians claim the same ability. Why don't you trust them equally?

[Fartsniffage]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

You have no way to verify that it works, or is efficient. It isn't voluntary because you'll go to hell if you don't do it. It is a hand out. And we don't need any of it any more than we would need welfare.

[Fartsniffage]

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

Because decisions are made based on voices in people's heads.

[Neo Art]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

Because, apparently, somehow a system dictated by elected and accountable politicians, in which all wage earners are equally obligated to enter into is somehow inferior than one that's run by people who claim to know how to run it because god told them.

[The_pantless_hero]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

It isn't voluntary. It works because... the church tells you it does? And it is efficient because.. the church tells you so? And it isn't corrupt because... Mormon Jesus makes sure it isn't?

Good to know.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

You have no way to verify that it works, or is efficient. It isn't voluntary because you'll go to hell if you don't do it. It is a hand out. And we don't need any of it any more than we would need welfare.

It is not a hand out. People are expected to work it off.

[Neo Art]

It is not a hand out. People are expected to work it off.

Totally different from welfare systems designed to help people get out of poverty, get on their feet, and become income earning, tax paying people.

Yup, totally different

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Dont like it, dont do it. Give to your own church. Whatever. Just dont force me to give.

[Fartsniffage]

It is not a hand out. People are expected to work it off.

So it isn't even charity then?

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

You all asked. I answered. But, yeah, if they are listening.

Your version of a charity based welfare system just got a whole lot more scary.

Why? Because it works? Because it is efficient? Because it is voluntary? Because it isnt a hand out? Or because you dont get any?

You have no way to verify that it works, or is efficient. It isn't voluntary because you'll go to hell if you don't do it. It is a hand out. And we don't need any of it any more than we would need welfare.

It is not a hand out. People are expected to work it off.

Yet you have no way to verify that they do.

[Neo Art]

Dont like it, dont do it. Give to your own church. Whatever. Just dont force me to give.

I'm not forcing you to do anything. The US federal government is. As is the government of whatever state you're in.