Pope Benedict resigns / Bergoglio is Pope Francis I

[Greed and Death]

Has anyone else noticed that the those who are contenders for the papacy are all batshit crazy conservatives ?

I think the sith lord retired early to ensure his stacked college of cardinals remained stacked.

The next pope will be a conservative?


No. Fucking. Way.

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

[Divair]

The next pope will be a conservative?


No. Fucking. Way.

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

Yes.

[Vosona]

i think the new pope should be Timothy Dolan, in my humble opinion.

[Angleter]

The next pope will be a conservative?


No. Fucking. Way.

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

That great liberal, whose theology had nothing to do with the then Cardinal Ratzinger?

[Greed and Death]

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

That great liberal, whose theology had nothing to do with the then Cardinal Ratzinger?

Pope John Paul II was fairly conservative he was just normally conservative. As in home sexuality may be wrong, and we wont recognize homosexual marriages, but homosexuals deserve the same respect that all humans deserve.

As opposed to Ratzinger who is batshit crazy conservative.

[Scholencia]

The next pope will be a conservative?


No. Fucking. Way.

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

What is the difference between JP2 and others?

It is not that he had different views than Benedict.

[New Chalcedon]

The next pope will be a conservative?


No. Fucking. Way.

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

JPII was a conservative too, you know. Just less strident and more tactful about it.

[Angleter]

That great liberal, whose theology had nothing to do with the then Cardinal Ratzinger?

Pope John Paul II was fairly conservative he was just normally conservative. As in home sexuality may be wrong, and we wont recognize homosexual marriages, but homosexuals deserve the same respect that all humans deserve.

As opposed to Ratzinger who is batshit crazy conservative.

I can't see any difference, either in tone or in actual teaching (the latter would be a real turn up for the books, since Ratzinger was essentially JPII's theologian-in-chief), between JPII and B16 on homosexuality. Indeed, your characterisation of JPII's views on homosexuality quite accurately describe B16's comments on homosexuality - admittedly, they all seem to come from before his election to the Papacy, but I don't think anybody could seriously accuse Ratzinger of being JPII's puppet on theology (especially in 2003 or 2004), and the dearth of quotable comments on homosexuality from B16's Papacy speaks volumes in its own right.

To be perfectly honest, I think the perceived difference between JPII and B16 on theological issues is largely down to their different personalities and how they're reported in the media. JPII was the superstar Pope who was elected young, wasn't Italian, travelled more than any Pope before him and drew huge crowds as he went, got shot, helped bring down Communism, and then suffered a public and protracted decline in health. While the Church as a whole, and most notably its conservatism and the sex abuse scandal, was most certainly up for public criticism, JPII himself really wasn't. Considering he had none of the qualities, tragedies, or novelties that kept JPII in the world media's good books, had been the chief defender of JPII's conservative positions, was elected over the liberal (as the Church will go) Cardinal Martini, and got in just as the sex abuse scandal had come to a head, B16 was always going to receive far more public criticism than JPII ever did. Of course, it didn't help that the Vatican's PR, long saved by JPII and his personal popularity, was (and is) absolutely dreadful.

[Arcturus Novus]

i think the new pope should be Timothy Dolan, in my humble opinion.

Dolan acualy is pop

[Scholencia]

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

JPII was a conservative too, you know. Just less strident and more tactful about it.

The context of JP2s time should be considered. It was the time of the Cold war and being conservative was a virtue. Coming from the Eastern block and surviving an assasination.made him charismatic.

[Auralia]

That great liberal, whose theology had nothing to do with the then Cardinal Ratzinger?

Pope John Paul II was fairly conservative he was just normally conservative. As in home sexuality may be wrong, and we wont recognize homosexual marriages, but homosexuals deserve the same respect that all humans deserve.

As opposed to Ratzinger who is batshit crazy conservative.

I don't recall Benedict XVI calling for gay bashings.

[Cill Airne]

That great liberal, whose theology had nothing to do with the then Cardinal Ratzinger?

Pope John Paul II was fairly conservative he was just normally conservative. As in home sexuality may be wrong, and we wont recognize homosexual marriages, but homosexuals deserve the same respect that all humans deserve.

As opposed to Ratzinger who is batshit crazy conservative.

That's actually not correct. Wojtyła and Ratzinger were both liberal, compared to past Popes. Both were not initially invited to Vatican II because the Church thought they were too liberal for the Church (though they were later invited, along with people such as Balthasar). Both stated that while homosexuality is wrong, they should be treated as humans. During his Papacy, Benedict XVI supported several organisations for Gay Catholics to insure they were not alienated in their own church - he wanted to make sure they knew they were welcome, although encouraged to live a celibate life.

[Thesan]

Really? Well here wasn't so common... before Scola there was Dionigi Tettamanzi (it is considered even a left-winger, the Northern League have always hated him) and even before there was Carlo Maria Martini (the only Cardinal that have publicly opened to gay unions in the catholic church, the condom and abortion, against futile medical care, an ultra progressist jesuit that would have revolutioned the church) the only obstacle to his election intead of ratzinger was his parkinson I think (and the fact that he was a progressist while John Paul II was a conservative)

I'd rather have had a repeat of Alexander VI than Cardinal Martini. His liberal beliefs would have completely destroyed the church. For a start, just look at how well that has gone for the lutheran and episcopal churches. If the church simply follows the whims of mainstream society, why should it even exist? Remember that throughout its history, members of the church have chosen to die rather than submit to things contrary to the church's teaching. We're often labelled as "intolerant" for standing by our beliefs, but that's hardly any reason for changing them.

That's not even mentioning the inevitable schism that such changes would cause. Following endless misinterpretation of Vatican II, the last thing we need is more schism. However, most importantly, suddenly adopting liberal teachings would simply destroy any authority held by the Pope or the church. Teaching things that contradict what the church has taught for centuries essentially implies that the church was wrong all this time, and can therefore be wrong about anything and everything else.

Oh yeah... effectively the fact that 80,000 people were watching the Mass of Martini in july in Meazza stadium was sign that the people hated so much progressism... I remember that at the end all the people remained to listen to his speech pro tolerance and against the corruption that was even then endemic of the Church (I was only 4 at that time)


more than 500,000 people assisted his funeral in Lombardy (and consider that Lombardy is the most agnostic/atheist region of Italy and is where the UAAR, union of atheists and agnostics, has home), no Cardinal has ever received so much attention...

The Church should instead follow progressism because the people is becoming (at least in the catholic southern europe) more progressist and the fact that the Church is still so conservative makes many people leave it because is considered almost oppressive... and a Church with no believers is useful as a ship in the desert... so I really would like a progressist pope

[GrandKirche]

Come on Jesus!!!

[Place of Interest]

The Church should instead follow progressism because the people is becoming (at least in the catholic southern europe) more progressist and the fact that the Church is still so conservative makes many people leave it because is considered almost oppressive... and a Church with no believers is useful as a ship in the desert... so I really would like a progressist pope

The church is not a democracy. Neither does it have the authority to change God's law, especially just for the sake of popularity. Christ himself said to his followers that the world would hate them because of him.

Besides, the increasingly traditional church is growing world wide, even in places like Sweden. Compare the growing popularity of traditional Catholicism to the declining liberal groups such as the LCWR, which is full of aging 60s throwbacks, who are gradually dying out.

[Gauthier]

You'd have to play the Lethal Weapon movies in St. Peter's Square. Even then, chances are slim.

He has the conservativism they want in the next pope.
The church has been willing to over look sex scandals and nazi scandals in its pontiffs if they are conservative.

It'll be fun to see a Pope that pisses off Jews just by existing.

[Greed and Death]

He has the conservativism they want in the next pope.
The church has been willing to over look sex scandals and nazi scandals in its pontiffs if they are conservative.

It'll be fun to see a Pope that pisses off Jews just by existing.

Pope Gibson was arrested for a DUI in Florida today, he says the comments he made about the Jews plotting to have him arrested, was just sacramental wine drunk talk and not reflective of his actual views of Jewish people.

Nope Mel Gibson does not piss of the Jews by merely existing, any ire he has from organizations such as the anti defamation league has been well earned.

[Oneracon]

The Church should instead follow progressism because the people is becoming (at least in the catholic southern europe) more progressist and the fact that the Church is still so conservative makes many people leave it because is considered almost oppressive... and a Church with no believers is useful as a ship in the desert... so I really would like a progressist pope

The church is not a democracy. Neither does it have the authority to change God's law, especially just for the sake of popularity. Christ himself said to his followers that the world would hate them because of him.

Besides, the increasingly traditional church is growing world wide, even in places like Sweden. Compare the growing popularity of traditional Catholicism to the declining liberal groups such as the LCWR, which is full of aging 60s throwbacks, who are gradually dying out.

How does one judge growing?

In many developed nations like Canada there are plenty of people who are "Catholic" if you look at census figures or self-identification surveys. However the reality is that churches are closing as the dioceses have neither the money nor the attendance to justify keeping them open, sometimes priests are having to be brought in from other countries as barely anyone is going into the seminary, and church attendance (especially in Catholicism) has plunged dramatically.

In a study done in 2000 it was found that, of Canadians that identify as Catholic, weekly church attendance has dropped from 75% in the 1950s to 32%. In the previously Catholic-dominated province of Quebec the percentage dropped from 88% in 1950 to 20%.

In the newest study in 2012 it was found that over 50% of people in the 15-to-29 age cohort had no religion or had never attended any religious service. Between 2002 and 2012, the number of youth saying religion was "very important" dropped by ten percentage points from 34% to 22%. Even with immigration (which is currently the only thing keeping places of worship open in Canada), irreligion tends to set in after the first or second generation born in the new country.

[Corporations and Companies]

Big shake up in the Papl Race.

Archbishop Angelo Scola (Italy) has jumped into a commanding lead but Cardinal Odilo Scherer (Brazil), who wasn't even among the top ten a week ago, has positioned himself in second place. Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana) has slipped into third and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (Italy) is nipping at his cassock in fourth. Cardinal Marc Ouellet (Canada) an early leader is well back in fifth.

Other strong movers over the last three days are Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States), Cardinal Raymond Burke (United States) and Cardinal Timothy Dolan (United States) 7th, 9th and 10th but all seem to be on an upward swing. Cardinal Thomas Collins (Canada) also seems to be making a move.

The big droppers are Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco (Italy), Cardinal Leonardo Sandri (Argentina) and Cardinal Peter Erdo (Hungary) all having lost serious steam.

THE BIG SHOCKER however is in the name race where Leo has taken the lead from Peter. Peter had led from the start. Gregory has also seen a huge leap in support and could push Peter into third.

[Crolacia]

i think the new pope should be Timothy Dolan, in my humble opinion.

I msut agree here. Saw his interview on Amanpour on CNN. He seems like a great man. And he smiles a lot! Which is always a good thing

[Disserbia]

Was it too much to ask for a another pope John Paul II.

JPII was a conservative too, you know. Just less strident and more tactful about it.

I think a Paul VI type character would be good. Are there any though?

i think the new pope should be Timothy Dolan, in my humble opinion.

I msut agree here. Saw his interview on Amanpour on CNN. He seems like a great man. And he smiles a lot! Which is always a good thing

I think his conservatism might continue to alienate people. Plus I just don't think him becoming Pope is very realistic, but I could be wrong, I mean the Holy See can go one of two ways here, I'm just not sure he's on the right side of things right now. He is still pretty young though.

[Vosona]

If Dolan doesn't get it, and there is an election within the next 10-15 years, then he will be Pope.

[Typhlochactas]

Can we get a Pope that isn't white?

[Coccygia]

Can we get a Pope that isn't a narrow-minded bigot who puts the interests of the hierarchy ahead of everything else?*


*Rhetorical question.

[Disserbia]

Can we get a Pope that isn't white?

I hardly think that should be the priority.