Pope Benedict resigns / Bergoglio is Pope Francis I

[Everbeek]

next pope should be a woman just to mix things up a bit after 2000 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

..... It was widely believed for centuries, though modern religious scholars consider it fictitious, perhaps deriving from historicized folklore regarding Roman monuments or from anti-papal satire. ....

[Tyrants]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan

..... It was widely believed for centuries, though modern religious scholars consider it fictitious, perhaps deriving from historicized folklore regarding Roman monuments or from anti-papal satire. ....

So? People believed the Coelacanth extinct, but it wasn't. May be a logical fallacy but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth

[Everbeek]

So? People believed the Coelacanth extinct, but it wasn't. May be a logical fallacy but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth

well I think Arch said it better in this post earlier in this thread

Pope Joan?

That hoax was so silly it was comprehensively demolished as the 17th century; by a Protestant.

[Fedeledland]

So, I support the new pope's name to be Sixtus VI.

[Angleter]

John Allen in the National Catholic Reporter has been doing very good profiles of the main papabili each day, and for those interested, here's a page with links to them all.

Interestingly, Allen has yet to mention Tarcisio Bertone, and the fact that he's already got onto real longshots like Tauran (whose health problems alone really ought to disqualify him) before thinking of Bertone would suggest he doesn't see him as the front-runner that others do. Neither Dolan or O'Malley from America have been mentioned yet, either. He has, however, profiled some Cardinals who've generally gone unnoticed - Ranjith, Sarah, and Tauran.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

How To: Choose a new Pope



A reptilian Pope would be interesting.

[Angleter]

More John Allen, this time on the major camps, divided by their priorities. There's Governance, ie. those who want a Pope who'll reform the Curia and perhaps the organisation of the Church in general; Pastoral, ie. those who want a Pope who'll sort out internal problems and be less 'ideological' than JPII or B16; Third World, ie. those who want a Pope who'll reflect and embrace the growing non-Western aspect to the Church (and build bridges to the Muslims); and Evangelical, ie. those who want a Pope who'll be a charismatic missionary sort. Now, of course, many Cardinals will belong to more than one camp, but it shows that a papabile will have to have a very wide appeal to get the necessary two-thirds majority.

[Abatael]

I hope either an Italian or an American becomes the next Pope.

[Oneracon]

I hope either an Italian or an American becomes the next Pope.

A rather poor selection, since most Catholics these days are not American or Italian.

[Abatael]

I hope either an Italian or an American becomes the next Pope.

A rather poor selection, since most Catholics these days are not American or Italian.

How would that make an American or Italian Pope a "poor selection?"

[Oneracon]

A rather poor selection, since most Catholics these days are not American or Italian.

How would that make an American or Italian Pope a "poor selection?"

Rome would want to woo more followers in the developing world, since they're rapidly losing followers in western Europe and North America.

It would be a far better political choice to say to people in Africa, for example, "Hey look! There's one of you people in charge, you should come and give us more influence and converts."

[Abatael]

How would that make an American or Italian Pope a "poor selection?"

Rome would want to woo more followers in the developing world, since they're rapidly losing followers in western Europe and North America.

It would be a far better political choice to say to people in Africa, for example, "Hey look! There's one of you people in charge, you should come and give us more influence and converts."

Also, going back to your original post, the US is ranked number four in the amounts of Catholics in the world. Brazil has the most, then Mexico, then Philippines, then the US. Italy is number six. Most Catholics don't belong to one country. So I agree with you most Catholics aren't Italian or American, but most Catholic aren't even Brazilian. The largest number of Catholics are Brazilian, but a very large number are also Italian and American.

[Oneracon]

Rome would want to woo more followers in the developing world, since they're rapidly losing followers in western Europe and North America.

It would be a far better political choice to say to people in Africa, for example, "Hey look! There's one of you people in charge, you should come and give us more influence and converts."

Also, going back to your original post, the US is ranked number four in the amounts of Catholics in the world. Brazil has the most, then Mexico, then Philippines, then the US. Italy is number six. Most Catholics don't belong to one country. So I agree with you most Catholics aren't Italian or American, but most Catholic aren't even Brazilian. The largest number of Catholics are Brazilian, but a very large number are also Italian and American.

Yeah, but all of those people who may call themselves Catholic in a survey don't necessarily attend church or other religious functions regularly.

43% of Canada's population is Catholic, but they're having to close churches since there aren't enough parishioners or priests to justify keeping them open.

Someone can say that they identify as a Catholic, but that doesn't mean they go to church regularly or even particularly care about religious issues.

Actual dedicated Catholics are an ever dwindling number in the developed world, so Rome needs to look elsewhere to woo new followers.

[Abatael]

Also, going back to your original post, the US is ranked number four in the amounts of Catholics in the world. Brazil has the most, then Mexico, then Philippines, then the US. Italy is number six. Most Catholics don't belong to one country. So I agree with you most Catholics aren't Italian or American, but most Catholic aren't even Brazilian. The largest number of Catholics are Brazilian, but a very large number are also Italian and American.

Yeah, but all of those people who may call themselves Catholic in a survey don't necessarily attend church or other religious functions regularly.

43% of Canada's population is Catholic, but they're having to close churches since there aren't enough parishioners or priests to justify keeping them open.

Someone can say that they identify as a Catholic, but that doesn't mean they go to church regularly or even particularly care about religious issues.

Actual dedicated Catholics are an ever dwindling number in the developed world, so Rome needs to look elsewhere to woo new followers.

You'll need to give a source for this. I'm not going to accept some source that simply regurgitates what you just said. If you say the numbers I have given you are wrong, then give me the right ones.

[The Blaatschapen]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... eting.html

Hilarious

[Oneracon]

Yeah, but all of those people who may call themselves Catholic in a survey don't necessarily attend church or other religious functions regularly.

43% of Canada's population is Catholic, but they're having to close churches since there aren't enough parishioners or priests to justify keeping them open.

Someone can say that they identify as a Catholic, but that doesn't mean they go to church regularly or even particularly care about religious issues.

Actual dedicated Catholics are an ever dwindling number in the developed world, so Rome needs to look elsewhere to woo new followers.

You'll need to give a source for this. I'm not going to accept some source that simply regurgitates what you just said. If you say the numbers I have given you are wrong, then give me the right ones.

I never said the numbers you gave were wrong. The numbers you gave are most likely the results of basic census data, where people choose what religious group they identify as.

The majority of census surveys don't actually ask about church attendance unless they are specifically looking for information on that topic. For example this report from Statistics Canada's General Social Survey, which is designed to gather more detailed data on social issues. Incidentally, that survey showed that only 21% of all Canadians stating they are a member of a religious group actually attended church/temple/etc.

Or a survey in 2000 that showed only 32% of Catholics outside of Quebec attend church regularly, down from 75% in 1950. In Quebec, the same survey showed that only 22% of Catholics attend church (down from 88% in 1950).

In the US, a Gallup poll found that church attendance of Catholics has dropped to 45% in 2005 (from 75% in 1955).

[Dainer]

It doesn't matter if you attend church or not, as long as you can back them up with power support and money, which a lot of "non-practicing" Catholics do. That's why support for an American pope is high at the moment - the CC in the United States handles a lot of money and power.

Brazil, despite its high number of Catholics, has always been the stray dog of Church politics because the Brazilian wallets don't contribute as much as, say, the Italian ones, and people don't take clergy as seriously as in the rest of Latin America.

[Angleter]

Ouellet does an interview with French CBC. He basically accepted the possibility as a conclave Cardinal of being elected Pope, and noted how great the task would be, but then said he thought others had a better chance and would be better Popes. He also talked about his early life and the sex abuse scandal. Not as bad as Turkson telling the Telegraph virtually his entire vision for the Church within hours of Benedict announcing his abdication (to say nothing of the Amanpour interview), but I doubt it'll help his cause. Although, given that there have been concerns about Ouellet saying a few years ago that being Pope would be "a nightmare," especially considering that we're coming off the heels of a Papal resignation, perhaps his comments may reassure some Cardinals.

Speaking of Ouellet, the Telegraph, and scandal: The Telegraph has claimed that a priest had complained about Cardinal O'Brien to the Vatican as early as October, and that his original resignation date was arranged in November in a deal brokered by Cardinal Ouellet to basically stop all this going public. Of course, the Vatican isn't talking (and if the article's anything to go by, the source isn't in the Vatican either), but anyway, if true, this isn't going to help Ouellet one bit, to say the least (to say nothing of the ramifications for the Church). However, I'm sceptical of the story - the article is vague, not least about who the source actually is, it's only thus far been picked up by Press TV, which doesn't actually mention the Telegraph article or its contents at all, and the Vatican brokering a deal to keep this thing quiet and then going public at the worst possible time strikes me as unlikely even for them. We'll have to see.

On a lighter note, the ITCCS say you can now do a citizens' arrest on the Pope Emeritus, the Queen, Stephen Harper, Rowan Williams (still listed as Abp. of Canterbury), and many more, to serve their twenty-five year jail sentences for 'crimes against humanity'. Here's the extremely slow-moving transcript of the 'verdict' and a list of the 'defendants' (see 6:30 on for them) - apparently the YouTube account that uploaded this very serious international court verdict commented on a Willow 'n' Jaden Smith music video a month or so ago.

[Ethel mermania]

it appears the pope betting is shaping up to be a three horse race, so to speak. two fellows at 7/2 and one at 9/2

my cardinal in the race is steady @33/1.

www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/ ... pe-betting


so right now the cardinals are sizing each other up, and the voting starts next week.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Personally, Colbert or Bono would be my suggestions.

Well, technically any Catholic man can be Pope, right?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

If we assume that the new Pope is going to be someone who is currently a Cardinal (a safe assumption--I realize that legally it's open to lay Catholic men as well, but in practice that doesn't happen anymore, and hasn't in nearly a thousand years if memory serves), I think it'll probably be Yadi. I mean, Wainwright, Holliday, and Craig are heavyweights too, but no one compares to #4 Yadier Molina.

[Chestaan]

If we assume that the new Pope is going to be someone who is currently a Cardinal (a safe assumption--I realize that legally it's open to lay Catholic men as well, but in practice that doesn't happen anymore, and hasn't in nearly a thousand years if memory serves), I think it'll probably be Yadi. I mean, Wainwright, Holliday, and Craig are heavyweights too, but no one compares to #4 Yadier Molina.

According to This, the last lay person to become Pope was Leo X in 1513, he had to be ordained a priest before he became pope. Also, the last pope who, when elected, was not a bishop was Gregory XVI. He was elected in 1831. But yeah, highly likely that this pope will be a cardinal.

[Oneracon]

Personally, Colbert or Bono would be my suggestions.

Well, technically any Catholic man can be Pope, right?

Pope Stephen has a nice ring to it, he'll bring the quest for truthiness to the Vatican

[Ethel mermania]

If we assume that the new Pope is going to be someone who is currently a Cardinal (a safe assumption--I realize that legally it's open to lay Catholic men as well, but in practice that doesn't happen anymore, and hasn't in nearly a thousand years if memory serves), I think it'll probably be Yadi. I mean, Wainwright, Holliday, and Craig are heavyweights too, but no one compares to #4 Yadier Molina.

i thought the priesthood were pitchers not catchers.

[Yarth]

He will be old, and hold pretty much the same views as previous popes this century. I don't speculate, as I am not catholic and don't care about who the pope might be.