Rape prevention

[Ostroeuropa]

It explicitly mentions women as the victims of rape. It's a sexist poster.
It implies that men are incapable of being raped (Sexist against men)
And that only women care capable of being raped (Sexist against women)

That's not why it offends me, because statistically, it is generally men who rape women.

It offends me because it only speaks to potential rapists and doesn't address what women can do.

Presumably you'd be fine with a poster that explicitly addressed black people as criminals.
Given the lack of support for male rape victims, even if they are a minority, a poster like this which reinforces gender stereotypes isn't helping rape victims. It's making things worse.

[Uawc]

That's not why it offends me, because statistically, it is generally men who rape women.

It offends me because it only speaks to potential rapists and doesn't address what women can do.

Presumably you'd be fine with a poster that explicitly addressed black people as criminals.

I'd be fine with a poster that explains how to avoid being victimized by criminals.

[Ovisterra]

But when you say that women should learn to carry and use weapons, you are, like it or not, saying that some people who have been raped might not have been raped if they had carried weapons. That's victim blaming.

I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad, but I want to ask you to look at the stats and then come back and tell me that I'm wrong.

I'm well aware of the stats. I never disputed them. I'm disputing the conclusion you drew from them, the conclusion that it's the victim's responsibility to protect themselves. You know, victim blaming.

-Says the person who thinks all women should carry weapons

Your hypocrisy would be laughable if we were on a more light hearted topic. Instead, I'm closer to crying.

I fail to see how this is hypocritical at all. Granted, I'm not a liberal in any sense of the word, so I'm not looking at this through a liberal point of view.

This has fuck all to do with liberalism. It's to do with you being a hypocrite.

You claim that all women should carry weapons. Then when someone suggests that potential rapists should not rape, you go "THAT'S DEMEANING TO WOMEN!"

If you fail to see how that's hypocritical, then I really pity you.

[Page]

I have zero sympathy for any rapist who is maimed or killed in the process of committing rape.

That said, potential victims do not have an obligation to carry weapons, train in self-defense, avoid certain areas, especially not dress a certain way, because rape is always a choice, and rapists always make a conscious choice to harm someone and impose their will on someone.

If certain "prevention" measure would improve the quality of lives of those who have endured rape or are worried they will be raped by making them feel more secure, then they have a right to pursue those. But that should not be the status quo - rapists should stop committing rape. A society where potential victims need to be constantly vigilant and prepared for rapists is a sick society.

[Great Nepal]

We just need to invent anti-rape metal saw, which can be inserted into vagina which cut off anything entering it if she doesn't want to. *nod*
More seriously, yes rape is preventable but it is not women's job. There is reason law enforcement exists.

[Ostroeuropa]

We just need to invent anti-rape metal saw, which can be inserted into vagina which cut off anything entering it if she doesn't want to. *nod*
More seriously, yes rape is preventable but it is not women's job. There is reason law enforcement exists.

There are anti-rape devices which kind of do that.
Imagine a reverse condom with spikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device#Rape-aXe

[Khadgar]

We just need to invent anti-rape metal saw, which can be inserted into vagina which cut off anything entering it if she doesn't want to. *nod*
More seriously, yes rape is preventable but it is not women's job. There is reason law enforcement exists.

There are anti-rape devices which kind of do that.
Imagine a reverse condom with spikes.

It's a horrible idea incidentally. Not so much anti-rape device as pro-murder. Put a rapist's cock in a plastic sheathe full of tiny spines and they'll probably just skip to killing.

I'm not certain rape is totally preventable, you can minimize the chance, but if there's a sufficiently determined deranged asshole...

[Condunum]

Casual sex is already quite available, yet rape still happens. Somehow, I think there is more to it than a desire to get laid once in a while.

But free sex with nothing but asking for it is not. It should be made easier, and brothels made legal.

Free sex will not stop rape. At all.

[Uawc]

I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad, but I want to ask you to look at the stats and then come back and tell me that I'm wrong.

I'm well aware of the stats. I never disputed them. I'm disputing the conclusion you drew from them, the conclusion that it's the victim's responsibility to protect themselves. You know, victim blaming.

I fail to see how this is hypocritical at all. Granted, I'm not a liberal in any sense of the word, so I'm not looking at this through a liberal point of view.

This has fuck all to do with liberalism. It's to do with you being a hypocrite.

You claim that all women should carry weapons. Then when someone suggests that potential rapists should not rape, you go "THAT'S DEMEANING TO WOMEN!"

If you fail to see how that's hypocritical, then I really pity you.

Criminals do not stop committing crime when you rub their nose in it and tell them "no".

[Kvatchdom]

But free sex with nothing but asking for it is not. It should be made easier, and brothels made legal.

Free sex will not stop rape. At all.

Have we ever tried it?

[Khadgar]

Casual sex is already quite available, yet rape still happens. Somehow, I think there is more to it than a desire to get laid once in a while.

But free sex with nothing but asking for it is not. It should be made easier, and brothels made legal.

Rape's connection to sex is incidental only. The sex isn't the point.

[Wikkiwallana]

How are firearms going to stop date rape, far and away the most common form of rape?

I'm not saying that weapons can stop every form of rape all the time. Just that it can reduce the chances.

Note the underlined. I'm not trying to denigrate the trauma of violent rape (yes, I know all rape is violence, but I can't think of a better word to describe it, sorry), but the hulking brute lunging out of an alley to have his way with the lone woman just isn't statistically all that common. Far more common are the abusive uncle, the drunk significant other, and the creep plying you with booze. In the US, rape outdoors and in bars combined makes up just under 6% of all rapes. Even cutting that in half would barely affect the overall number of rapes at all. As such, even if you could prove guns would stop half or more of all rapes in which they were a usable tactic, you'd still need to show that this would likely outweigh the accidental shootings, wrongful shootings, and the chances of increased violence against those who used a gun but were unsuccessful.

[Tsuntion]

Presumably you'd be fine with a poster that explicitly addressed black people as criminals.

I'd be fine with a poster that explains how to avoid being victimized by criminals.

That wasn't the question.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Hi, NSG.

A short while ago we had a rape thread, which was labelled as a "safe space". In that thread, I suggested that women (let's be realistic, it is almost always women who are victimized) should carry and learn how to use weapons in order to prevent rapes. I was very clear that I was not attempting to place the blame on victims, and was trying to be supportive. It was apparent that some people were still offended, however, and and some people even suggested that I was aiding rapists by promoting the carry of and training with weapons among women. I cannot with any intellectual honesty apologize for what I said, because I still sand by it. I want to emphasize that my heart goes out to the victims of abuse.

So, here is a different thread with a different purpose. I want to ask you, NSG: do you believe that rape is preventable? If so, what can women do to prevent rape? If not, why not?

Here is a video with some statistics which support the idea that women should carry and learn how to use weapons.

I really, really don't want this to turn into a flame war. Please keep it civil. I want this to be a good thread with some good, constructive discussion, and I don't want any victims who may be reading this to feel that it is in any way their fault.

In the Maldives we recently had a series of very well publicised rapes. Every single instance was of a father/father in law/family-figure raping a girl between the ages of 11-15. Spousal rape is also very common where I'm from, and from what I understand, pretty much everywhere on the planet.

Your advice would have been of no use to the victims involved.

[Varijnland]

Yes, it is preventable. There's not that much more to say. You know the drill, stay in groups, don't walk home on your own yada yada yada etc etc.

But apparently you're victim blaming by implying that there is any way that rape could have been prevented, the same way you'd be victim blaming if a career criminal had his home invaded and his skull ventilated by some other criminals.

I'm not victim blaming, i'm saying that rape can be avoided if the correct precautions are taken.

[Ostroeuropa]

Free sex will not stop rape. At all.

Have we ever tried it?

I sincerely doubt that married people with regular access to sex don't also have the occasional rapist among them.

[Camelza]

I will use my usual answer to every problem: Education, sex education and social education for all. ...and progressive reforms all over the place.
Seriously though, I believe that if people where socialy educated and had respect for each other, rapes would decrease drasticaly.

[Stephania Incognita]

We just need to invent anti-rape metal saw, which can be inserted into vagina which cut off anything entering it if she doesn't want to. *nod*
More seriously, yes rape is preventable but it is not women's job. There is reason law enforcement exists.

There are anti-rape devices which kind of do that.
Imagine a reverse condom with spikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device#Rape-aXe

Seems to me like the fastest way to turn a rape in to a murder.

[Rereumrari]

It ignores that men are also raped, and implies only woman are raped.
Ergo, it implies only men are capable of rape, and only women are capable of being raped.

Ah, okay; I've gotten so used to seeing female-on-someone or someone-on-male rape being ignored that I don't really register it any more, I guess. I should work on changing that part of my thoughts.

It will never stop happening, though. Society is imperfect. There will always be murders, muggings, rapes, and beatings. Worrying about what you can't control will just destroy you inside.

But why can't we try to think of ways to reduce it? People will (probably) always die from illness, but that doesn't mean we don't work on medicine.

Unless you're a doctor or a biologist, I don't see the point in worrying over how you're going to cure ilnesses. Same goes with rape. If you lack the resources, knowledge, and skills to actually arrest rapists and help rape victims, then you're just torturing yourself over trying to contemplate how to stop it. I understand feeling sympathetic for the victims, but pretending you can actually do something about it is where it gets unrealistic. If you're just sitting here on a computer, you're not helping.

[Great Nepal]

There are anti-rape devices which kind of do that.
Imagine a reverse condom with spikes.

It's a horrible idea incidentally. Not so much anti-rape device as pro-murder. Put a rapist's cock in a plastic sheathe full of tiny spines and they'll probably just skip to killing.

Wouldn't they die/pass out because of blood loss? Prior to sex, there is lot of blood flowing through there.

[Ostroeuropa]

There are anti-rape devices which kind of do that.
Imagine a reverse condom with spikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device#Rape-aXe

Seems to me like the fastest way to turn a rape in to a murder.

Results are mixed.
Some victims get killed.
Some victims have attested that their attacker was stunned/collapsed in pain, allowing escape.

What it guarantee's however is that the rapist WILL be caught. I am fully in favor, if someone is willing to risk it, of their right to wear the device. I personally wouldn't.

[Wikkiwallana]

I'm well aware of the stats. I never disputed them. I'm disputing the conclusion you drew from them, the conclusion that it's the victim's responsibility to protect themselves. You know, victim blaming.



This has fuck all to do with liberalism. It's to do with you being a hypocrite.

You claim that all women should carry weapons. Then when someone suggests that potential rapists should not rape, you go "THAT'S DEMEANING TO WOMEN!"

If you fail to see how that's hypocritical, then I really pity you.

Criminals do not stop committing crime when you rub their nose in it and tell them "no".

Teach them empathy and sound morals before they turn to crime, however, and they don't become criminals.

[Stephania Incognita]

It's a horrible idea incidentally. Not so much anti-rape device as pro-murder. Put a rapist's cock in a plastic sheathe full of tiny spines and they'll probably just skip to killing.

Wouldn't they die/pass out because of blood loss? Prior to sex, there is lot of blood flowing through there.

The "RapeAxe" link posted above suggests it doesn't kill you, it just latches on to you and can only be removed surgically. It's to I.D. you.

[Khadgar]

It's a horrible idea incidentally. Not so much anti-rape device as pro-murder. Put a rapist's cock in a plastic sheathe full of tiny spines and they'll probably just skip to killing.

Wouldn't they die/pass out because of blood loss? Prior to sex, there is lot of blood flowing through there.

The one I'm familiar with doesn't shred your dick. Just puts lots of tiny barbed spines in it so that it basically has to be surgically removed. Even if it did kill through blood loss, that takes a minute or two even from a serious wound, plenty of time for revenge.

[Ovisterra]

I'm well aware of the stats. I never disputed them. I'm disputing the conclusion you drew from them, the conclusion that it's the victim's responsibility to protect themselves. You know, victim blaming.



This has fuck all to do with liberalism. It's to do with you being a hypocrite.

You claim that all women should carry weapons. Then when someone suggests that potential rapists should not rape, you go "THAT'S DEMEANING TO WOMEN!"

If you fail to see how that's hypocritical, then I really pity you.

Criminals do not stop committing crime when you rub their nose in it and tell them "no".

Some do, actually. The point is that criminals aren't some sort of group, separate from the "good people". They're often people like you or me, who fuck up badly. Date rape is an example of this. They don't go "Mwa ha ha! Today I'm going to go rape someone! My dastardly plan is coming together!". They just cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. Education is key to prevention.