Has colonialism been whitewashed?

[Zaharawi]

I came across a really interesting speech today. This speech was delivered by one of my favourite writers, Nigozi Adchie. She offers a different interpretation that I found to be more befitting of the story of western colonization. In her speech, she spoke specifically about that of the relationship that Africans enjoyed with their former colonizer. It would be interesting to hear your take on it. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=rela ... YEWg1vIOyw

[Genivaria]

Whats your opinion?

[Zaharawi]

Whats your opinion?

My opinion would be biased, hence subjective.

[Genivaria]

Whats your opinion?

My opinion would be biased, hence subjective.

ALL opinions are subjective. What is your opinion?

[Zaharawi]

My opinion would be biased, hence subjective.

ALL opinions are subjective. What is your opinion?

If you insist. I quite agree with her. I think the western society is attempting to mask/erase the history of colonization by offering bribes to the corrupted elites, who in turns shuts up and dance to the tune of the westerners. I would even go as far as to say that they stall development so that Africa can remain the needie.

[West Sylvania]

I'm not sure I understand how there is some conspiracy to cover up the nastiness of colonialism when it is entrenched as a basic social study in most every school in the western world.

We are taught early and often how horrible it was, and how it effects the world to this day. The degree to which any given student cares/contemplates the issue is up to them.

[Bahanesia]

Generally if you post a thread in NSG, you're inclined to present a story, news article, etc. and express your position regarding it so as to allow commentators to have a basis of discussion.

That being said, she's an exceptional writer.

[Cannot think of a name]

Twice in the span of a few weeks I get to make the same reference to a Senegalese film I saw in college, Xala.

(though last time I screwed up this opening sequence, there are no limos)

Basically, for those who don't want to watch, the people throw out the French colonial government, who calmly leave, celebrate their independence, and then the French colonial leaders come back with briefcases full of money to give to the new leaders, essentially making things a ceremonial change and the people who supported the independence are quickly shuffled off.

The idea (mine, the movie is a little more complex and directly relevant to Senegal, but you should totally watch it, it's actually kind of funny, uses impotence to criticize the leaders for selling out their nation) is that colonial power was too cumbersome a way to get what they needed out of colonies, it's much easier and cheaper just to prop up local 'leaders' and continue on.

Not sure if that's what she's talking about, but I thought Xala was a pretty good critique of post-colonial Africa.

[Zaharawi]

Twice in the span of a few weeks I get to make the same reference to a Senegalese film I saw in college, Xala.

(though last time I screwed up this opening sequence, there are no limos)

Basically, for those who don't want to watch, the people throw out the French colonial government, who calmly leave, celebrate their independence, and then the French colonial leaders come back with briefcases full of money to give to the new leaders, essentially making things a ceremonial change and the people who supported the independence are quickly shuffled off.

The idea (mine, the movie is a little more complex and directly relevant to Senegal, but you should totally watch it, it's actually kind of funny, uses impotence to criticize the leaders for selling out their nation) is that colonial power was too cumbersome a way to get what they needed out of colonies, it's much easier and cheaper just to prop up local 'leaders' and continue on.

Not sure if that's what she's talking about, but I thought Xala was a pretty good critique of post-colonial Africa.

This is exactly what she was talking about. In her views and mine, colonization has not really ended, but took another way to manifest itself.

[Risottia]

ALL opinions are subjective. What is your opinion?

If you insist. I quite agree with her. I think the western society is attempting to mask/erase the history of colonization by offering bribes to the corrupted elites, who in turns shuts up and dance to the tune of the westerners. I would even go as far as to say that they stall development so that Africa can remain the needie.

Yeah, I too think we "westerners" should really stop giving money to Africa, considered how - with some notable exception - the Africans seem to always end up supporting authoritarian regimes and corrupted elites who spend all the governmental money in wars and luxury for themselves, instead of doing stupid, western-like, culturally-imperialist stuff like building roads and aqueducts.

[Ralkovia]

Twice in the span of a few weeks I get to make the same reference to a Senegalese film I saw in college, Xala.

(though last time I screwed up this opening sequence, there are no limos)

Basically, for those who don't want to watch, the people throw out the French colonial government, who calmly leave, celebrate their independence, and then the French colonial leaders come back with briefcases full of money to give to the new leaders, essentially making things a ceremonial change and the people who supported the independence are quickly shuffled off.

The idea (mine, the movie is a little more complex and directly relevant to Senegal, but you should totally watch it, it's actually kind of funny, uses impotence to criticize the leaders for selling out their nation) is that colonial power was too cumbersome a way to get what they needed out of colonies, it's much easier and cheaper just to prop up local 'leaders' and continue on.

Not sure if that's what she's talking about, but I thought Xala was a pretty good critique of post-colonial Africa.

This is exactly what she was talking about. In her views and mine, colonization has not really ended, but took another way to manifest itself.

Of course. We figured out something way more profitable.

Give them their freedom. And don't pay for any infrastructure needed because you haven't colonized them.

Way more profitable.

We don't even have to take care of you guys and we get the same thing as before. Actually, even better, we get cheaper labor because the standard of living has fallen immediately after decolonization.

[Zaharawi]

This is exactly what she was talking about. In her views and mine, colonization has not really ended, but took another way to manifest itself.

Of course. We figured out something way more profitable.

Give them their freedom. And don't pay for any infrastructure needed because you haven't colonized them.

Way more profitable.

We don't even have to take care of you guys and we get the same thing as before. Actually, even better, we get cheaper labor because the standard of living has fallen immediately after decolonization.

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

[Bahanesia]

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

Yet this sort of practice is not exclusive in Africa alone. Many post-Colonial independent states and regions in Southeast Asia and South America also suffer from Western influence and corruption to their governments and societies.

I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

While I do understand your resentment against the state of third-world countries following post-colonial times, it does not necessitate such insult and utter prejudice, this was quite distasteful.

[Vecherd]

She seems fairly intolerant and filled with generalizations. She probably has some points though.

[Mirkana]

Hmm, I don't know of any conspiracy to whitewash the colonial era. It might be partly because I got most of my historical education outside the classroom, but the narrative I got had the whole colonial saga as one filled with bloodshed, and that a lot of what is wrong with Africa today stems from the legacy of colonialism. The best example is how Columbus no longer commands the respect he once did.

[Ralkovia]

Of course. We figured out something way more profitable.

Give them their freedom. And don't pay for any infrastructure needed because you haven't colonized them.

Way more profitable.

We don't even have to take care of you guys and we get the same thing as before. Actually, even better, we get cheaper labor because the standard of living has fallen immediately after decolonization.

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

I'm actually more surprised that you guys have continually done worse. I mean South America has stayed stagnant, Asia has grown, and North America is doing terrific. It seems to be just Africa and the Middle East.

[Herskerstad]

ALL opinions are subjective. What is your opinion?

If you insist. I quite agree with her. I think the western society is attempting to mask/erase the history of colonization by offering bribes to the corrupted elites, who in turns shuts up and dance to the tune of the westerners. I would even go as far as to say that they stall development so that Africa can remain the needie.

I am not sure. With China's influence over the region growing and the working standards continually dropping, I am not sure a hard line towards nations such as the US, UK and France will be a chess move. You're entirely right about the bribes though, and nations like France secured one third of Libya's oil reserves by supporting the rebels, so they have figured out how to make political bribes in a way that certainly is not charitable. But the west is continually moving forward and outsourcing standards is becoming a legitimate issue. Whereas this has never been a case with eastern influence.

Africa does need business more than it needs charity though.

[Ralkovia]

If you insist. I quite agree with her. I think the western society is attempting to mask/erase the history of colonization by offering bribes to the corrupted elites, who in turns shuts up and dance to the tune of the westerners. I would even go as far as to say that they stall development so that Africa can remain the needie.

I am not sure. With China's influence over the region growing and the working standards continually dropping, I am not sure a hard line towards nations such as the US, UK and France will be a chess move. You're entirely right about the bribes though, and nations like France secured one third of Libya's oil reserves by supporting the rebels, so they have figured out how to make political bribes in a way that certainly is not charitable. But the west is continually moving forward and outsourcing standards is becoming a legitimate issue. Whereas this has never been a case with eastern influence.

Africa does need business more than it needs charity though.

Africa needs more standard business and less corrupt business.

Africa hasn't developed on its own. It still faces a lot of problems with Tribalism. We've forced it to come to our level without any of the societal infrastructure actually occurring. For East Asia, a communal culture developed, uniting all ethnic groups in a social contract. In the West, we are united by our nations. Africa and the Middle East are still governed by loyalty to their individual ethnic groups and tribes. No matter how much colonization they went through, they still remained aligned to their tribes.

That might actually be because of the geographic distance of Africa. Africa is in actuality a wide open space. It was entirely possible to never encounter another person that wasn't from your tribe. And it still is.

South Africa and the other industrialized nations bring all of the tribes together into cities. Hence why these places have organized governments that actually function.

[Forster Keys]

Of course. We figured out something way more profitable.

Give them their freedom. And don't pay for any infrastructure needed because you haven't colonized them.

Way more profitable.

We don't even have to take care of you guys and we get the same thing as before. Actually, even better, we get cheaper labor because the standard of living has fallen immediately after decolonization.

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

Well that's a little racist.

[Ralkovia]

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

Well that's a little racist.

Truthfully, Racism is a natural part of the Human Brain. We are pack animals. Distrust of outside groups is normal and distrust leads to hatred. Tolerance is learned. That's why when the thin veneer of civilization is peeled back, you get to see what humanity truly looks like.

[Forster Keys]

Well that's a little racist.

Truthfully, Racism is a natural part of the Human Brain. We are pack animals. Distrust of outside groups is normal and distrust leads to hatred. Tolerance is learned. That's why when the thin veneer of civilization is peeled back, you get to see what humanity truly looks like.

Well yes, but the whole point of will and consciousness is transcending your natural form.

[Nazis in Space]

Four minutes in, the video is certainly fun, but I'm not entirely clear on how it relates to the topic...?

Edit: And at 4:30, it may become relevant. Yay.

Edit #2: Or not?

Edit #3: Okay, 6:30, and we're hitting the topic.

[Forsher]

Four minutes in, the video is certainly fun, but I'm not entirely clear on how it relates to the topic...?

Edit: And at 4:30, it may become relevant. Yay.

Edit #2: Or not?

Anyone got a transcript? Or even a summary?

The state of my internet prevents me from anything more than reading at the moment and I'd like to know what the video was about, not that it'd change my answer to the question, "Has colonialism been whitewashed?"

No. The colonisation of NZ was bad. The evil Brits swindled the Maori out of their land and are totally to blame for iwi who acquired guns before other iwi killing the other iwi. Who cares if the only difference was now that they could do it more efficiently than before?

Let's not forget Amritsar, the horrors of the Raj, the seeds of South Africa's apartheid, concentration camps, the slave trade, the end of the Tasmanian Aborigines, the Forgotten/Lost Generation (apologies, name may be wrong there... twice) and don't let us get started on the Falklands. And that's just the British Empire... without the famines.

I'd go as far to say that colonialism is so unpopular that undue blame is occasionally attributed to it... without anyone batting an eyelid. Needless to say, I don't think it's fair to say colonialism is responsible for the Musket Wars. After all, the iwi were going to get guns at some point anyway...

[Risottia]

After all, the iwi were going to get guns at some point anyway...

Well, not necessarily.
They could have gone extinct before attaining firearm technology.

Truthfully, Racism xenophobia is a natural part of the Human Brain. We are pack animals. Distrust of outside groups is normal and distrust leads to hatred. Tolerance is learned. That's why when the thin veneer of civilization is peeled back, you get to see what humanity truly looks like.

Fixed.
Xenophobia is an instinct. Racism is a set of pseudoscientifical theories constructed with the exact purpose of exploiting xenophobia.

[Azurand]

You see the cruel irony:) I want you "westerners" to keep that in mind when next you wanna talk about poverty and Africa.

Yet this sort of practice is not exclusive in Africa alone. Many post-Colonial independent states and regions in Southeast Asia and South America also suffer from Western influence and corruption to their governments and societies.

Indonesia is one of the example

I personally am not against Colonialism..but that would be very biased since I support Islamic Colonialism, not Western. I support attempts to failing the Western Colonization.

EDIT: To be add, I support the benevolent colonialism, the colonialism which not related with "GENOSIDE LOKKALS" stuffs. But I could understand the rebellion against the colonialism, also the colonialism attempt to fight the rebellion, etc, etc. Well, Survival of the Fittest, comrade.