Hawaii marijuana legalization bill scheduled

[Shallowell]

You very well could be right. Either way, it has the same effect

Not quite. If marijuana were to be legalized, it would most likely be sold at ordinary stores with no connection to harder drugs. This would eliminate the supposed "gateway effect", or at least decrease it.

Fair enough. I think it would probably decrease, but not eliminate, marijuana as a gateway drug; like you said, dealers would do less conniving, but people still would likely long for that stronger high (or whatever, I'll admit I don't really know anything about the effects of drugs past what I've been told and what I've seen with other people)

[Cannot think of a name]

Not quite. If marijuana were to be legalized, it would most likely be sold at ordinary stores with no connection to harder drugs. This would eliminate the supposed "gateway effect", or at least decrease it.

Not really.

You know, as a kid I was able to pick up those halloween catalogs with the women in skimpy costumes.

The costume shop had nothing to do with Playboy.

Halloween catalogs weren't your gate way to porn, your testicles were.

[The God-Realm]

Not really.

You know, as a kid I was able to pick up those halloween catalogs with the women in skimpy costumes.

The costume shop had nothing to do with Playboy.

Pictures of women in skimpy clothing aren't illegal.

True, but my mom let me get the catalogs, but not the playboys.

[The God-Realm]

Not really.

You know, as a kid I was able to pick up those halloween catalogs with the women in skimpy costumes.

The costume shop had nothing to do with Playboy.

Halloween catalogs weren't your gate way to porn, your testicles were.

But I always had those.

And to clarify, I support weed, but nothing more hard than extra strong weed strains.

[Merriwhether]

Bullshit, prove it.

what I mean is the supply will get larger the price will get smaller and wow more kids are smoking pot.

Saying that legalizing drugs won't increase the number of people who do it is the equivalent of saying that throwing a cup of gasoline in a brush fire won't agitate it. I dare you to legalize drugs, and not regret it. Actually, scratch that, you'll be too high to regret anything.

[Abatael]

It does. As anecdotal as this may be, when my teacher was in college, he had a roommate. When he was a freshman in college, his roommate began to consume cannabis. By the time he was a senior in college, his roommate began to consume either cocaine or heroine, I don't remember which one exactly. Now, we have no way of verifying this, but I believe it.

Also, his roommate was not necessarily harmed by using the cocaine or heroine, but those drugs can and do harm people.

No, what you have in an anecdote. What you need is proof. Now there are studies out there that will provide correlation between use of weed and use of harder drugs. However, what this does not take into account is that weed is cheaper than harder drugs. Hard drug users will buy weed to hold them over until they can earn/steal enough money for their drug of choice. Just like when I'm low on money I'll buy Pall Malls instead of Parliaments.

Also, I'll remind you lot: When it is not common sense and someone asks you, you better be ready to go get a source!

I don't understand your first sentence. Or the last of the first section.

A source for what?

And he was right, when he said that the cannabis builds up, in a way, so that it takes more and more or more potent drugs to get you to that same "high." It's called tolerance. That is why his roommate used the hard drugs.

[Abatael]

Which was enumerated in which founding document explicitly?

I'd always interpreted the entire "Pursuit of Happiness" thing with the Declaration of Independence to mean "If it doesn't hurt anyone else or impede on their life and liberty and their pursuit of happiness, why ban it?"

I mean, I could be wrong and my interpretation could be ass backwards, but that's how I had always viewed it.

I am in full support of Hawaii legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes, for the record.

And I've always interpreted "explicitly" to mean "in an explicit manner."

[Kreanoltha]

Halloween catalogs weren't your gate way to porn, your testicles were.

But I always had those.

And to clarify, I support weed, but nothing more hard than extra strong weed strains.

That's his point. Also, since I forgot this in my first post: Good for Hawaii. Now let's hope my state (Va) get's around to it soon damn it!

[The Jahistic Unified Republic]

I'd always interpreted the entire "Pursuit of Happiness" thing with the Declaration of Independence to mean "If it doesn't hurt anyone else or impede on their life and liberty and their pursuit of happiness, why ban it?"

I mean, I could be wrong and my interpretation could be ass backwards, but that's how I had always viewed it.

I am in full support of Hawaii legalizing marijuana for recreational purposes, for the record.

And I've always interpreted "explicitly" to mean "in an explicit manner."

I've always considered pursuit of happiness as explicit enough.

[Wisconsin9]

Pictures of women in skimpy clothing aren't illegal.

True, but my mom let me get the catalogs, but not the playboys.

I fail to see how this is an argument for marijuana being a gateway drug.

[The God-Realm]

what I mean is the supply will get larger the price will get smaller and wow more kids are smoking pot.

Saying that legalizing drugs won't increase the number of people who do it is the equivalent of saying that throwing a cup of gasoline in a brush fire won't agitate it. I dare you to legalize drugs, and not regret it. Actually, scratch that, you'll be too high to regret anything.

"Yo Pinko, if you repeal the Prohibition amendment we will all regret it!"

"Dumb nigger you will regret it if we give you your freedom"

"If I stop sending pinkos to jail you will all regret it! Nixon is one."

[The God-Realm]

True, but my mom let me get the catalogs, but not the playboys.

I fail to see how this is an argument for marijuana being a gateway drug.

[The God-Realm]

But I always had those.

And to clarify, I support weed, but nothing more hard than extra strong weed strains.

That's his point. Also, since I forgot this in my first post: Good for Hawaii. Now let's hope my state (Va) get's around to it soon damn it!

Virginia will legalize pot after the great pot march of 2045

[America Resurgent]

It does. As anecdotal as this may be, when my teacher was in college, he had a roommate. When he was a freshman in college, his roommate began to consume cannabis. By the time he was a senior in college, his roommate began to consume either cocaine or heroine, I don't remember which one exactly. Now, we have no way of verifying this, but I believe it.

Also, his roommate was not necessarily harmed by using the cocaine or heroine, but those drugs can and do harm people.

At least some of that may have to do with lack of regulation, though. Illegally obtained marijuana can sometimes have things mixed in. Or so I've heard, at least.

On top of that, it's also kind of a reason to legalize...well, at least heroin, in my mind. There's actually a few pretty good treatment options for that drug as well, such as methadone.

[Abatael]

And I've always interpreted "explicitly" to mean "in an explicit manner."

I've always considered pursuit of happiness as explicit enough.

Let me give to you an example of a truly explicit comment concerning the legality of cannabis, "Cannabis shall now and forever in the United States and all its territories be fully and completely legal, able to be used legally by all within the United States."

Now, I doubt they would be this explicit, so something such as, "Pursuit of happiness through any pharmacological methods..." or something endorsing consumption forthright, but this is very wishful of me.

[Kreanoltha]

I don't understand your first sentence. Or the last of the first section.

A source for what?

And he was right, when he said that the cannabis builds up, in a way, so that it takes more and more or more potent drugs to get you to that same "high." It's called tolerance. That is why his roommate used the hard drugs.

Yes, just like how it takes more booze to get older people drunk. However, what you and your teacher fail at is understanding how tolerance works. Weed and hard drugs do not have the same compounds in them. What you develop a tolerance for in weed is THC. It is completely different from the compounds in cocain and heroin. You do not switch to cocain because you've built up a tolerance to THC. You switch from one joint to two.

As for my last sentence, I was kindly reminding people that it is perfectly acceptable to ask for a source when, in a debate, someone states a fact that you dispute. Pro-tip: Anecdotal evidence is not.

[Wisconsin9]

I've always considered pursuit of happiness as explicit enough.

Let me give to you an example of a truly explicit comment concerning the legality of cannabis, "Cannabis shall now and forever in the United States and all its territories be fully and completely legal, able to be used legally by all within the United States."

Now, I doubt they would be this explicit, so something such as, "Pursuit of happiness through any pharmacological methods..." or something endorsing consumption forthright, but this is very wishful of me.

I don't suppose that we could just take the fact that Thomas Jefferson grew weed and assume he was OK with it, could we?

[Abatael]

It does. As anecdotal as this may be, when my teacher was in college, he had a roommate. When he was a freshman in college, his roommate began to consume cannabis. By the time he was a senior in college, his roommate began to consume either cocaine or heroine, I don't remember which one exactly. Now, we have no way of verifying this, but I believe it.

Also, his roommate was not necessarily harmed by using the cocaine or heroine, but those drugs can and do harm people.

At least some of that may have to do with lack of regulation, though. Illegally obtained marijuana can sometimes have things mixed in. Or so I've heard, at least.

On top of that, it's also kind of a reason to legalize...well, at least heroin, in my mind. There's actually a few pretty good treatment options for that drug as well, such as methadone.

I believe Kreanoltha is more of the authority in that field, so I can neither confirm nor deny this.

[Abatael]

I don't understand your first sentence. Or the last of the first section.

A source for what?

And he was right, when he said that the cannabis builds up, in a way, so that it takes more and more or more potent drugs to get you to that same "high." It's called tolerance. That is why his roommate used the hard drugs.

Yes, just like how it takes more booze to get older people drunk. However, what you and your teacher fail at is understanding how tolerance works. Weed and hard drugs do not have the same compounds in them. What you develop a tolerance for in weed is THC. It is completely different from the compounds in cocain and heroin. You do not switch to cocain because you've built up a tolerance to THC. You switch from one joint to two.

As for my last sentence, I was kindly reminding people that it is perfectly acceptable to ask for a source when, in a debate, someone states a fact that you dispute. Pro-tip: Anecdotal evidence is not.

You misspelled cocaine.

As for the first section, I don't know why his roommate turned to cocaine, but it sounded like because he built up a tolerance, whether or not his roommate knew cocaine has the same compounds as cannabis does not change the fact that his roommate turned to cocaine.

Concerning the second section, it is what it is.

[Kreanoltha]

At least some of that may have to do with lack of regulation, though. Illegally obtained marijuana can sometimes have things mixed in. Or so I've heard, at least.

On top of that, it's also kind of a reason to legalize...well, at least heroin, in my mind. There's actually a few pretty good treatment options for that drug as well, such as methadone.

This is actually a fantastic reason to legalize drugs. Illegally processed drugs often are cut with terrible things, not just stuff like powdered milk. Imported weed has a chance to be grown in soil that has terrible things in it as well.

[Cannot think of a name]

Not quite. If marijuana were to be legalized, it would most likely be sold at ordinary stores with no connection to harder drugs. This would eliminate the supposed "gateway effect", or at least decrease it.

Fair enough. I think it would probably decrease, but not eliminate, marijuana as a gateway drug; like you said, dealers would do less conniving, but people still would likely long for that stronger high (or whatever, I'll admit I don't really know anything about the effects of drugs past what I've been told and what I've seen with other people)

Okay, first of all, one of the things that non-drug people have to understand is that drugs don't get along. Yes, you can find people who use a variety of drugs, but for the most part, people have a 'weapon of choice'. There is no universal 'drug effect.' It doesn't work like items in a video game RPG where one is better than the other and you just upgrade.

Meth heads freak out pot heads and pot heads annoy the shit out of meth heads and heroin junkies make everyone uncomfortable and tweakers, well, they're fucking tweakers.

So there is no 'something stronger,' it's different kinds high.

Drug dealers don't generally upsell. You approach them already with a need, there really isn't much they have to do in the way of sales.

What would really take care of this notion of a 'gateway' drug is if we stopped lying about the drugs themselves. Because lets say our little teetotaler, that guy has been lied to about drugs, about marijuana. Say that guy breaks down for whatever reason, finds himself in a room where he decides "Alright, I'll try it" or maybe some dickhead slips him a brownie (lets be clear, that is a dick move, and calling it a dick move is a complete understatement.) and he finds that the worst thing that happens is he gains an appreciation of Pink Floyd, thinks the word 'dude' sounds funny, and that all food should come in burrito form. His balls don't shrivel up and fall away, he still remembers algebra when we comes down, he finds out that the guy who had the weed is holding down a job as a lawyer or professor or a factory manager or a world renowned astrophysicist...what does he do?

What have we done to all that information he's been told about marijuana? How much credibility does the rest of what he knows about drugs and their effects when he smokes some marijuana and nothing bad happens? Suddenly, the people doing drugs have a better track record of telling him the truth than the people trying to warn him not to do drugs. He doubts everything else he knows. If they lied about marijuana, did they lie about coke? Meth? Heroin?

By overstating the case with marijuana, by trying to put things in the scariest terms possible regardless of if they are founded in reality, the anti-drug culture has built that gateway. Not just by placing marijuana on the same shelf as the other schedule one drugs, but by not being credible. By being hyperbolic. By creating the fiction that all drugs are drugs and it's all the same. Because when that lie is revealed, all bets are off.

If you want to take away that gateway, the first thing they're going to have to do is stop lying.

[Cannot think of a name]

At least some of that may have to do with lack of regulation, though. Illegally obtained marijuana can sometimes have things mixed in. Or so I've heard, at least.

On top of that, it's also kind of a reason to legalize...well, at least heroin, in my mind. There's actually a few pretty good treatment options for that drug as well, such as methadone.

I believe Kreanoltha is more of the authority in that field, so I can neither confirm nor deny this.

In the early days, when I was a little more sheltered and had heard about these 'lacing' stories I was hanging out with a dude who had gone way too far down the rabbit hole and had come back. In a lot of ways he was kind of our little drug Gandalf. I once asked him about that, about lacing weed and the like and he laughed..."Why in the hell would I waste my good drugs on that?"

[Kreanoltha]

Let me give to you an example of a truly explicit comment concerning the legality of cannabis, "Cannabis shall now and forever in the United States and all its territories be fully and completely legal, able to be used legally by all within the United States."

Now, I doubt they would be this explicit, so something such as, "Pursuit of happiness through any pharmacological methods..." or something endorsing consumption forthright, but this is very wishful of me.

I don't suppose that we could just take the fact that Thomas Jefferson grew weed and assume he was OK with it, could we?

I'm good with that.

You misspelled cocaine.

As for the first section, I don't know why his roommate turned to cocaine, but it sounded like because he built up a tolerance, whether or not his roommate knew cocaine has the same compounds as cannabis does not change the fact that his roommate turned to cocaine.

Concerning the second section, it is what it is.

Curse you spell checker.

Also, that is probably not why he switched to cocaine. It's probably more to do with the people he was around which is actually another reason to legalize weed. If you remove weed from the culture of hard drugs then what you have is a harmless recreant that has never been noted to be physically harmful (I include neurologically in this).

[Cannot think of a name]

what I mean is the supply will get larger the price will get smaller and wow more kids are smoking pot.

Saying that legalizing drugs won't increase the number of people who do it is the equivalent of saying that throwing a cup of gasoline in a brush fire won't agitate it. I dare you to legalize drugs, and not regret it. Actually, scratch that, you'll be too high to regret anything.

There are I believe three different places that have legalized weed. Surely you can point to them and prove that legalizing weed and an increase in drug use.

[Abatael]

I don't suppose that we could just take the fact that Thomas Jefferson grew weed and assume he was OK with it, could we?

I'm good with that.

You misspelled cocaine.

As for the first section, I don't know why his roommate turned to cocaine, but it sounded like because he built up a tolerance, whether or not his roommate knew cocaine has the same compounds as cannabis does not change the fact that his roommate turned to cocaine.

Concerning the second section, it is what it is.

Curse you spell checker.

Also, that is probably not why he switched to cocaine. It's probably more to do with the people he was around which is actually another reason to legalize weed. If you remove weed from the culture of hard drugs then what you have is a harmless recreant that has never been noted to be physically harmful (I include neurologically in this).

I don't think cannabis is a hard drug.