Most Americans Support Troop Increase

[Bot-Hell]

See, unlike your run of the mill homefront liberal, the troops recognize that increased numbers translate into decreased causalities and violence (as demonstrated by the surge).

Yeah, in Iraq, where they recently bombed a building after declaring the blast wall no longer necessary,

You cant create a stable democracy at the point of a gun, especially not in this day and age...

It is possible, it just takes time.

Is it? Could you provide some examples of it being done?

Japan ?
South Korea ?(though in fairness they did that on their own 30 years later).
West Germany ?

Japan is probably the best such example. A nation that had centuries of dynastic rule suddenly embracing western democracy.

They began embracing western styles back in the USA Civil War days, which had nothing to do with a threat of violence against them. Because of the proxy wars in Germany (post WW2) and Korea families have been torn apart and many, many many troops killed over forcing a government style on the local people without regard for what they wanted or what was best for them.

And need I remind anyone that those efforts also helped bankrupt the USSR? Well, that and corruption. But show me a person on the planet that doesn't honestly believe that America is worm-ridden with corruption and I'll show you a gullible republican, or a amazonian tribe that doesn't know what America is.

[Parthenon]

See, unlike your run of the mill homefront liberal, the troops recognize that increased numbers translate into decreased causalities and violence (as demonstrated by the surge).

Yeah, in Iraq, where they recently bombed a building after declaring the blast wall no longer necessary,

You cant create a stable democracy at the point of a gun, especially not in this day and age...

It is possible, it just takes time.

Is it? Could you provide some examples of it being done?

Japan ?
South Korea ?(though in fairness they did that on their own 30 years later).
West Germany ?

Japan is probably the best such example. A nation that had centuries of dynastic rule suddenly embracing western democracy.

They began embracing western styles back in the USA Civil War days, which had nothing to do with a threat of violence against them. Because of the proxy wars in Germany (post WW2) and Korea families have been torn apart and many, many many troops killed over forcing a government style on the local people without regard for what they wanted or what was best for them.

And need I remind anyone that those efforts also helped bankrupt the USSR? Well, that and corruption. But show me a person on the planet that doesn't honestly believe that America is worm-ridden with corruption and I'll show you a gullible republican, or a amazonian tribe that doesn't know what America is.

Supporting western industry and trade practices and supporting western democracy are two enitrley different subjects. Yes, the Japanese had a positive view of industrialization (unlike the Boxers in China or the Swadeshi Movement in India) however, they didn't have as positive an outlook on destroying the centuries long tradition of power situated around an emperor or Daimyos.

[Bot-Hell]

See, unlike your run of the mill homefront liberal, the troops recognize that increased numbers translate into decreased causalities and violence (as demonstrated by the surge).

Yeah, in Iraq, where they recently bombed a building after declaring the blast wall no longer necessary,

You cant create a stable democracy at the point of a gun, especially not in this day and age...

It is possible, it just takes time.

Is it? Could you provide some examples of it being done?

Japan ?
South Korea ?(though in fairness they did that on their own 30 years later).
West Germany ?

Japan is probably the best such example. A nation that had centuries of dynastic rule suddenly embracing western democracy.

They began embracing western styles back in the USA Civil War days, which had nothing to do with a threat of violence against them. Because of the proxy wars in Germany (post WW2) and Korea families have been torn apart and many, many many troops killed over forcing a government style on the local people without regard for what they wanted or what was best for them.

And need I remind anyone that those efforts also helped bankrupt the USSR? Well, that and corruption. But show me a person on the planet that doesn't honestly believe that America is worm-ridden with corruption and I'll show you a gullible republican, or a amazonian tribe that doesn't know what America is.

Supporting western industry and trade practices and supporting western democracy are two enitrley different subjects. Yes, the Japanese had a positive view of industrialization (unlike the Boxers in China or the Swadeshi Movement in India) however, they didn't have as positive an outlook on destroying the centuries long tradition of power situated around an emperor or Daimyos.

Really, the enforcement of democracy on them was more of an accident and punishment than a 'gift'. And that was only enforced at the point of a super weapon the likes the world has never seen before, and such a jump in weaponry isn't likely to be available ever again simply because a weapon of sufficient magnitude would be world destroying, instead of cities. So instead the only forceful options we have left are nukes (seen as generally bad for people) and conventional force (our current favorite), both of which cause considerable economic and political damage to both the target country and the aggressor.

[Kantria]

Might aswell have said "Most Americans are fucking morons who support an illegal war".

Which one? Iraq or Afghanistan?

Either.

You do realize that the United States isn't the only country with troops in Afghanistan, right? And that the ISAF was established by the UN? What would it to make the war legal, in your eyes? If the Taliban had stood up and asked the international community, "please overthrow us"?

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

[RoI3]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

[Kantria]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

...are you fucking kidding me? OK, then, would you have supported an invasion of Saudi Arabia instead, even though al-Qaeda—the organization that actually attacked us, regardless of the nationalities of its members—was in Afghanistan, supported by the Taliban regime? Or do you want to deny that they were ever there, too?

What if the hijackers had been Canadian nationals trained there, or that the organization was receiving funding from citizens of the UK. Should we have invaded them?

[Ordo Mallus]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

actually they too flight school in florida, history channel ftw

also might be signing up for the marines next year

[RoI3]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

...are you fucking kidding me? OK, then, would you have supported an invasion of Saudi Arabia instead, even though al-Qaeda—the organization that actually attacked us, regardless of the nationalities of its members—was in Afghanistan, supported by the Taliban regime? Or do you want to deny that they were ever there, too?

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

[Kantria]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

[RoI3]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

I should work for em, not like they've done a good job catching him, is it? All that they have done is scaremonger.

[Zivenzia]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

proving once again that the use of massive smilies makes an effective argument. uh huh, yeah, sure, youbetcha.

And you would be wrong then, wouldn't you?

[Glorious Freedonia]

I am pretty sure that no significant majority of the American populace will ever stop wanting to support countries that have lots of suicide bombers blowing themselves up in order to undermine democracy. However, there has always been that component of society that wants minimal military involvement with the world outside of our borders. However, we have always been willing to fight piracy. Terrorism is a lot like piracy in the sense that it is done by criminals and causes a lot of violence and horror.

[Ordo Mallus]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

I should work for em, not like they've done a good job catching him, is it? All that they have done is scaremonger.

and prevent a number of other attacks on US soil. sarcasim aside, you take a helicopter through a mountain range and try and find him. he isn't by himself, we do believe he in on the Afgan/Pakistan border, and to cross the border would be invading pakistan. if you can find him good for you, now catch him.

[RoI3]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

proving once again that the use of massive smilies makes an effective argument. uh huh, yeah, sure, youbetcha.

And you would be wrong then, wouldn't you?

And you know, how? You don't so stfu.

[HurrfDurrf]

Supporting western industry and trade practices and supporting western democracy are two enitrley different subjects. Yes, the Japanese had a positive view of industrialization (unlike the Boxers in China or the Swadeshi Movement in India) however, they didn't have as positive an outlook on destroying the centuries long tradition of power situated around an emperor or Daimyos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taisho_democracy
Cracked down upon by an increasingly-militaristic government in the years leading up to the war, but it is not as though liberalism was some gift bestowed to Japan in 1945 by the Glorious American Conquerors.

[HurrfDurrf]

Anyway, more on topic: I'm totally digging this hope and change that Obama is bringing to the table right now. Troop surges, what a fresh concept.

[Kantria]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

I should work for em, not like they've done a good job catching him, is it? All that they have done is scaremonger.

No, they haven't, but Afghanistan is a big, rugged place, and Pakistan is making things even more difficult.

Also, dialysis equipment isn't an ungodly huge, immobile machine and neither are small electrical generators. It's a bigger problem bringing in fresh supplies (food, water, fuel for the generator) than lugging the equipment around.

I'll agree on the scaremongering, but that has less to do with the CIA and more to do with Bush and the American media. Blame the Iraq war on scaremongering—not Afghanistan.

[RoI3]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

I should work for em, not like they've done a good job catching him, is it? All that they have done is scaremonger.

No, they haven't, but Afghanistan is a big, rugged place, and Pakistan is making things even more difficult.

Also, dialysis equipment isn't an ungodly huge, immobile machine and neither are small electrical generators. It's a bigger problem bringing in fresh supplies (food, water, fuel for the generator) than lugging the equipment around.

I'll agree on the scaremongering, but that has less to do with the CIA and more to do with Bush and the American media. Blame the Iraq war on scaremongering—not Afghanistan.

Oh, like the yanks didn't take advantage of 9/11.

[Kryozerkia]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

proving once again that the use of massive smilies makes an effective argument. uh huh, yeah, sure, youbetcha.

And you would be wrong then, wouldn't you?

And you know, how? You don't so stfu.

Utterly unnecessary and unconstructive. If not for your history, this remark would have been borderline. Warned for flaming.

[Kantria]

Oh, you think Bin Laden was behind it? The guy has to ave dialysis, ho many caves in afghanistan have machines in them?

Wow. You should work for the CIA. They could use your powers of clairvoyance. I mean, they and every other intelligence agency have got it all wrong, but you have gotten all the answers without even leaving your house.

I should work for em, not like they've done a good job catching him, is it? All that they have done is scaremonger.

No, they haven't, but Afghanistan is a big, rugged place, and Pakistan is making things even more difficult.

Also, dialysis equipment isn't an ungodly huge, immobile machine and neither are small electrical generators. It's a bigger problem bringing in fresh supplies (food, water, fuel for the generator) than lugging the equipment around.

I'll agree on the scaremongering, but that has less to do with the CIA and more to do with Bush and the American media. Blame the Iraq war on scaremongering—not Afghanistan.

Oh, like the yanks didn't take advantage of 9/11.

Never said we didn't—again, see Iraq. We've let our leaders fuck us over in our own country, too. Afghanistan wasn't an overreaction, but bullshit like the PATRIOT Act was. Deep-seated hatreds were also given new life and a few of our "noble" public avengers decided they could do their part in the glorious crusade by beating innocent Middle Eastern (or Middle Eastern-looking) people to death. Those things are all reprehensible, but again, they don't have anything to do with the morality or legality of the war in Afghanistan.

[RoI3]

What are you saying, anyway? That if your nation were attacked by elements headquartered in a foreign country, you'd do... what? Nothing?

Saudi Arabia - why didn't we invade them? They were funded by them, a number of the hijackers were Saudi and in my eyes they were trained Saudi pilots.

proving once again that the use of massive smilies makes an effective argument. uh huh, yeah, sure, youbetcha.

And you would be wrong then, wouldn't you?

And you know, how? You don't so stfu.

Utterly unnecessary and unconstructive. If not for your history, this remark would have been borderline. Warned for flaming.

Oh, Kryo - I was doin so well. I hadn't had a warning in ages.

[Farnhamia]

I dont, I think we should leave, immediately, we arent doing anything over there but dying and blowing lots and lots of money...

The money spent on the useless Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq could have funded Universal Healthcare in this country several times over...

Iraq was wasting a billion dollars every four days a few years ago. That's probably come down a bit but it's still a major waste.

[Gauntleted Fist]

The money spent on the useless Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq could have funded Universal Healthcare in this country several times over...

This statement is false.

Taxpayers in the United States will pay $915.1 billion for total Iraq and Afghanistan war spending since 2001. For the same amount of money, the following could have been provided:
269,705,508 People with Health Care for One Year

This is not "several times over".

Yes, I understand, we have spent a seriously large amount of money on these wars, but we have not spent anywhere near as much as you claim.

[Beingthebest]

How does a guy in a cave manage to take down the twin towers? Exactly. I support our troop but get them the hell out of there.

[Kantria]

How does a guy in a cave manage to take down the twin towers? Exactly. I support our troop but get them the hell out of there.

He doesn't. His less cowardly underlings do it for him.

I really hope you were attempting some kind of satire, there.