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House of Commons Debates Same-Sex Marriage

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If you were an MP in the Commons tonight, how would you vote?

Aye! Yes to same-sex marriage
224
84%
No! No to same-sex marriage
37
14%
Other
7
3%
 
Total votes : 268

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Stephania Incognita
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Founded: Feb 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Stephania Incognita » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:58 am

Hevzane wrote:It isn't my opinion remember.

I wish it were possible to express myself without being banned.

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Fnordgasm 5
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Founded: Nov 15, 2007
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Postby Fnordgasm 5 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:24 am

Divair wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Presumably you want to ban all working on sunday/saturday too.
And eating meat on fridays.

Can't wear mixed fabric clothing, either.



If you read Mathew 5:17 you could argue that all the laws set out by Deuteronomy and Leviticus all still apply to Christians. Assuming that these Christians refuse to abandon their faith completely would you really prefer that they follow the laws of the Old Testament to the letter?
Fnordgasm 5 is a twat.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:25 am

Fnordgasm 5 wrote:
Divair wrote:Can't wear mixed fabric clothing, either.



If you read Mathew 5:17 you could argue that all the laws set out by Deuteronomy and Leviticus all still apply to Christians. Assuming that these Christians refuse to abandon their faith completely would you really prefer that they follow the laws of the Old Testament to the letter?

I'm hoping they realize that it's insane to enforce religious beliefs on others before that happens.

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Napkiraly
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Postby Napkiraly » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:27 am

Divair wrote:
Fnordgasm 5 wrote:

If you read Mathew 5:17 you could argue that all the laws set out by Deuteronomy and Leviticus all still apply to Christians. Assuming that these Christians refuse to abandon their faith completely would you really prefer that they follow the laws of the Old Testament to the letter?

I'm hoping they realize that it's insane to enforce religious beliefs on others before that happens.

I wouldn't hold your breath, mate.

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Fnordgasm 5
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Founded: Nov 15, 2007
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Postby Fnordgasm 5 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:32 am

Divair wrote:
Fnordgasm 5 wrote:

If you read Mathew 5:17 you could argue that all the laws set out by Deuteronomy and Leviticus all still apply to Christians. Assuming that these Christians refuse to abandon their faith completely would you really prefer that they follow the laws of the Old Testament to the letter?

I'm hoping they realize that it's insane to enforce religious beliefs on others before that happens.


The only way I see that happening is if it were another religion trying to enforce their beliefs on them. I'm sure they'll see it then. Until then I'll be satisfied that they're slowly losing ground and accept that their hypocrisy means at least they're not trying to stone people.
Fnordgasm 5 is a twat.

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Hevzane
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Founded: Dec 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hevzane » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:24 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Hevzane wrote:
It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.


Presumably you want to ban all working on sunday/saturday too.
And eating meat on fridays.


Excuse me? I take offense to that. The Orthodox church doesnt believe in that.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:25 am

Napkiraly wrote:
Divair wrote:I'm hoping they realize that it's insane to enforce religious beliefs on others before that happens.

I wouldn't hold your breath, mate.

One can hope.

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Ceannairceach
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Founded: Sep 05, 2009
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Postby Ceannairceach » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:32 am

Hevzane wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Presumably you want to ban all working on sunday/saturday too.
And eating meat on fridays.


Excuse me? I take offense to that. The Orthodox church doesnt believe in that.

I'd suggest reading the Bible a few times before immediately following your denomination's dogma.

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Hevzane
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Founded: Dec 08, 2012
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Postby Hevzane » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:46 pm

Ceannairceach wrote:
Hevzane wrote:
Excuse me? I take offense to that. The Orthodox church doesnt believe in that.

I'd suggest reading the Bible a few times before immediately following your denomination's dogma.


I'm not Amish you know. Im GREEK orthodox. We don't wear simple clothes and things like that.
Ignore my nation name. It sucks, yes, but that's because my friend gave this nation to me. I'd be willing to pay to change it.

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Napkiraly
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Founded: Aug 02, 2011
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Postby Napkiraly » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:48 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:I'd suggest reading the Bible a few times before immediately following your denomination's dogma.


I'm not Amish you know. Im GREEK orthodox. We don't wear simple clothes and things like that.

Which still has the Old and New Testaments, I believe.

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Delvoir
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Posts: 699
Founded: Aug 21, 2012
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Postby Delvoir » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:I'd suggest reading the Bible a few times before immediately following your denomination's dogma.


I'm not Amish you know. Im GREEK orthodox. We don't wear simple clothes and things like that.

You've obviously never read the Bible thoroughly enough to know what you're talking about.
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Ovisterra
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Founded: Jul 17, 2010
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Postby Ovisterra » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:I'd suggest reading the Bible a few times before immediately following your denomination's dogma.


I'm not Amish you know. Im GREEK orthodox. We don't wear simple clothes and things like that.


But you follow the Bible, correct?
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TomKirk
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Founded: May 08, 2012
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Postby TomKirk » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:51 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Presumably you want to ban all working on sunday/saturday too.
And eating meat on fridays.


Excuse me? I take offense to that. The Orthodox church doesnt believe in that.

Then the Orthodox church is profoundly hypocritical.
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Of the Free Socialist Territories
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Founded: Feb 12, 2012
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Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:52 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
I have a problem with you denying other people equal legal recognition and equal rights because of your prejudices, yes.


It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.


Indeed. As Jesus was often wont to say about homosexuality, "......................................"
Last edited by Of the Free Socialist Territories on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Romalae
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Founded: May 31, 2011
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Postby Romalae » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:53 pm

I think gays should be allowed to access the same life-ruining institution as the rest of us.
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CVT Temp
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Founded: Oct 03, 2012
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Postby CVT Temp » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:54 pm

Hevzane wrote:It isn't my opinion remember.


Yes it is. I hate when people try to hide their own opinions behind "God said so." Well, by saying "God said so." you're also implicitly saying "Everything god says is correct." which automatically implies that you agree with god. You can't disagree with someone you hold to be axiomatically correct.

Besides, neurologically, god's opinions are just your opinions anyway.
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
I have a problem with you denying other people equal legal recognition and equal rights because of your prejudices, yes.


It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.

Jesus also said the Law of Moses no longer applies.... so... yeah... there's that.
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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:42 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Presumably you want to ban all working on sunday/saturday too.
And eating meat on fridays.


Excuse me? I take offense to that. The Orthodox church doesnt believe in that.

Do you support the abolition of slavery?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Salandriagado
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Posts: 17577
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:45 pm

Baltenstein wrote:


Is that an actual campaigning poster?

Because he looks both scary and hilarious at the same time.


You should have seen the parody versions.
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Stephania Incognita
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Postby Stephania Incognita » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:47 pm

Menassa wrote:
Hevzane wrote:
It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.

Jesus also said the Law of Moses no longer applies.... so... yeah... there's that.

What about not one jot nor tittle passing from the law and so forth?

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Menassa
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Founded: Aug 11, 2010
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Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:49 pm

Stephania Incognita wrote:
Menassa wrote:Jesus also said the Law of Moses no longer applies.... so... yeah... there's that.

What about not one jot nor tittle passing from the law and so forth?

What about him coming to fulfill the law? ... which makes no sense.

Another way you can look at it is that the Law was never given to Christians....

Also, he told a rich man that the Law was not enough.
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"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
"God said: you must teach, as I taught, without a fee."
"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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Of the Free Socialist Territories
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Founded: Feb 12, 2012
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Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:52 pm

Stephania Incognita wrote:
Hevzane wrote:It isn't my opinion remember.

I wish it were possible to express myself without being banned.


Go and shout at a wall; it works for me when NSG gets too much.
Don't be deceived when our Revolution has finally been stamped out and they tell you things are better now even if there's no poverty to see, because the poverty's been hidden...even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which these new industries foist on you, and even if it seems to you that "you never had so much" - that is only the slogan of those who have much more than you.

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Grenartia
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Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Hevzane wrote:
Of the Free Socialist Territories wrote:
I have a problem with you denying other people equal legal recognition and equal rights because of your prejudices, yes.


It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.


No, the Bible doesn't say it. See below.

Grenartia wrote:
Hevzane wrote:I'm against it. I'm not homophobic, but Britain has been Christian for over 1700 years. I know, it's all civil rights and stuff, but to be honest, a Christian like me should not be supporting gay marriage. I can't believe David Cameron calls himself a Christian :palm:


Being Christian has nothing to do with opposing LGBT rights. It has everything to do with supporting them.

Oneracon wrote:
According to? [Please select from the options below]

If you're going to say Leviticus 18:22 or any other part of the OT
The Hebrew Bible contains the law for Jews, not for Christians


If you're going to cite Romans or any other NT quote relating to homosexuality
Any mentions to homosexuality being sinful were written in Paul's letters, well after Jesus left the Earth.

If the Son of God truly believed that homosexuality was so sinful, why was it never mentioned in any of the four editions of his biography (the Gospels)? Or for that matter in any other books in the New Testament?


Not to mention that Leviticus is such an anal retentive book anyways. I mean, if somebody's going to use it to tell me I shouldn't have gay sex, then they should at least have the common fucking decency to use it to tell me I shouldn't eat bacon, wear clothes of mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, or perform the environmentally-beneficial practice of crop rotation (if I were a farmer).

Also, I'd say that even Paul wasn't saying it was a sin. Given the fact that Paul made up the word arsenokoitai, instead of using the already existing Greek word for homosexuals.
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Menassa
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Menassa » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Hevzane wrote:
It isn't my opinion remember. If it was up to me, yes I would probably give gay people the same rights as straights. But it says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. God never wanted it to happen. As I am an Orthodox Christian, I have to follow that.


No, the Bible doesn't say it. See below.

Grenartia wrote:
Being Christian has nothing to do with opposing LGBT rights. It has everything to do with supporting them.



Not to mention that Leviticus is such an anal retentive book anyways. I mean, if somebody's going to use it to tell me I shouldn't have gay sex, then they should at least have the common fucking decency to use it to tell me I shouldn't eat bacon, wear clothes of mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, or perform the environmentally-beneficial practice of crop rotation (if I were a farmer).

Also, I'd say that even Paul wasn't saying it was a sin. Given the fact that Paul made up the word arsenokoitai, instead of using the already existing Greek word for homosexuals.

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"A missionary uses the Bible like a drunk uses a lamppost, not so much for illumination, but for support"
"Imagine of a bunch of Zulu tribesmen told Congress how to read the Constitution, that's how it feels to a Jew when you tell us how to read our bible"
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"Against your will you are formed, against your will you are born, against your will you live, against your will you die, and against your will you are destined to give a judgement and accounting before the king, king of all kings..."

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Tmutarakhan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tmutarakhan » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:32 pm

Grenartia wrote:Also, I'd say that even Paul wasn't saying it was a sin. Given the fact that Paul made up the word arsenokoitai, instead of using the already existing Greek word for homosexuals.
[/quote]
He wasn't making up the compound arseno-koitai "male-bedder" out of nothing: he was imitating the Septuagint translation of Leviticus. Leviticus says not to shakav "bed" a male, so the Septuagint unusually turns the Greek word for "bed" into a verb for purpose of translating this verse, and Paul is following that usage.
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