How will history judge Obama?

[Western cuba]

Perhaps it's a bit too early to think how we will judge President Obama?

Who knows, in the next four years Obama could establish himself as the best or worst president in American history.

Right now things are beginning to look like its heading up.. After a rather few shitty years, the unemployment rate is going back down and the stock market is finally back at its 2007 pace.

If Obama makes the right moves, and congress stops throwing a hissy fit with each other, I can see Obama's next term the sign of a bright future for America. Of course there will be the constant rambling of the national debt, but it's not like we can wipe the debt off or face by the end of Obama's term. We must realize that it will a very long-term issue to deal with.

As of right now I'm hoping for an amendment legalizing same-sex marriage and Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state.

[Post War America]

As a lost chance. He came to power in a time not friendly to politicians, and tried to navigate the tumultuous seas of a world wide global economic recession. The progressive era that was started with his first term lasted only 11 months and produced only a major piece of legislation which was marred by corporate interests. He failed and spent the rest of his first term hamstrung by an unfriendly congress and an increasingly aggressive right. The extremists were cut down in the 2012 election, but there were enough of the Republicans still in congress to stop him from really changing anything. He lacked any political capital, and could not really achieve any of the goals he was elected to do. He was the first black president, and the first one to fail due to his policy being too little, too late.

[Radiatia]

He'll be the Reagan of the left. Remembered and hated, but respected by American Conservatives, but loved by American liberals.

No, OBAMA. Not Clinton.

Clinton isn't hated by Conservatives, nor is he loved by the left. He pandered far too much to the right, with his "Third Way Centrism" (even though as a Centrist myself, I support this ideology).

Clinton was actually the Democrat who cemented Reagan's legacy as a realigning President, simply due to the fact that he did not choose to dismantle the major ideas of Reaganism - Clinton was a "New Federalist" who constantly prattled on about 'small government' in a Reaganistic fashion. GWB also attempted to appeal to the centre through his "compassionate conservatism" but ended up attempting to imitate Reagan and failing miserably.

Obama does have the potential to be a realigning President, even though arguably the realignment began in 1992 when Clinton turned California into a blue state. (Though this is similar to Reagan's relationship with Nixon in regards to the Southern States.)

The next eight years will be telling - the fact that Obama was re-elected is significant, but it really depends on the next President being a Democrat, which, given the current state of the GOP (where only the die-hard nutters are still lurking) is a distinct possibility.

So how will Obama be judged? Only time will tell really. He has potential and it's still too early to say whether or not he has lived up to that potential, no matter how disappointed we were in his first term.

[Socialist EU]

Perhaps it's a bit too early to think how we will judge President Obama?

Who knows, in the next four years Obama could establish himself as the best or worst president in American history.

Right now things are beginning to look like its heading up.. After a rather few shitty years, the unemployment rate is going back down and the stock market is finally back at its 2007 pace.

If Obama makes the right moves, and congress stops throwing a hissy fit with each other, I can see Obama's next term the sign of a bright future for America. Of course there will be the constant rambling of the national debt, but it's not like we can wipe the debt off or face by the end of Obama's term. We must realize that it will a very long-term issue to deal with.

As of right now I'm hoping for an amendment legalizing same-sex marriage and Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state.

To be honest, with the decline of capitalism I don't think we'll see any more "great" presidents.

Whist the stock market is up, that doesn't mean it won't go down again at some point, as it has in the past, also, regarding unemployment, you must have missed this:

'Job Growth Steady, but Unemployment Rises to 7.9%'
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/busin ... ?src=rechp

[North Stradia]

As a statist liar, just like all the rest of them. After the coming anarcho-capitalist revolution, all the Presidents will rightfully be viewed with disgust.

Fortunately for humanity, the fascist psuedomovement called AnCap will never amount to shit.

I am not a fascist.

Powerful and continuing nationalism
No.
Disdain for human rights
I only have disdain for 'justice' based human rights. 'Liberty' based human rights are good and necessary.
Identification of enemies/scapegoats
No.
Supremacy of the military
Fuck the military.
Controlled mass media
Freedom of speech.
Obsession with national security
No.
Religion and government are intertwined
Fuck religion.
Corporate power is protected
Somewhat.
Labor power is suppressed
No. I don't like unions, but I'm fine with their existence.
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
HELL NO
Obsession with crime and punishment
No!!! Legalize everything!
Rampant cronyism and corruption
No; instead this is a symptom of the current system.
Fraudulent elections
No.
Rampant sexism
Hell no.

[Kingdom of Salem]

Obama being the first sitting president to coming out in favor of Same sex marriage has already put him on the right path of history.

[Death Metal]

Fortunately for humanity, the fascist psuedomovement called AnCap will never amount to shit.

I am not a fascist.

Yes you are. AnCapland is just North Korea run by a CEO.

[North Stradia]

I am not a fascist.

Yes you are. AnCapland is just North Korea run by a CEO.

Respond to the rest of the post, and stop with the pointless insults.

[Death Metal]

Yes you are. AnCapland is just North Korea run by a CEO.

Respond to the rest of the post, and stop with the pointless insults.

I already did. A CEO is nothing but a dictator by design.

[North Stradia]

Respond to the rest of the post, and stop with the pointless insults.

I already did. A CEO is nothing but a dictator by design.

You didn't respond to my point by point refutation of your ridiculous assertion that anarcho-capitalism is fascist.

[Death Metal]

I already did. A CEO is nothing but a dictator by design.

You didn't respond to my point by point refutation of your ridiculous assertion that anarcho-capitalism is fascist.

I already did. Corporations become the authority.

AnCap is fascist. Deal with it.

[North Stradia]

How about, instead of insulting me, you actually debate me?

[Socialist EU]

I am not a fascist.

Yes you are. AnCapland is just North Korea run by a CEO.

He does have a point there, you calling him a fascist has more to do with an insult than proper analysis.

[Death Metal]

I already did. Corporations become the authority.

AnCap is fascist. Deal with it.

Statism is fascist. Deal with it.

And AnCap is just statism by corporate authority.

[North Stradia]

Statism is fascist. Deal with it.

And AnCap is just statism by corporate authority.

Are you going to refute my refutation or not? You're still slinging insults around instead of engaging in a rational debate, as I attempted to do.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Yes you are. AnCapland is just North Korea run by a CEO.

He does have a point there, you calling him a fascist has more to do with an insult than proper analysis.

Death Metal is correct, though. AnCaps are fascist, whether they agree with the label or not.

[Death Metal]

And AnCap is just statism by corporate authority.

Are you going to refute my refutation or not? You're still slinging insults around instead of engaging in a rational debate, as I attempted to do.

Fine.

Powerful and continuing nationalism
Power vacuum. With no public powers, the private powers will assume control.
Disdain for human rights
Slavery is by nature a capitalist practice, and it took government intervention to stop slavery.
Identification of enemies/scapegoats
"Government is evil"
Supremacy of the military
With no state police, private security will step in, and become the military of the corporate authority.
Controlled mass media
Corporations will control the media.
Obsession with national security
The CEOs will inevitably cling to their power at all costs.
Religion and government are intertwined
Ayn Rand will be the religion of this new slave empire.
Corporate power is protected
Somewhat? More like totally.
Labor power is suppressed
The corporations will be able to say "do what we want, or you starve".
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
See control of mass media.
Obsession with crime and punishment
You won't get to determine what the laws are. The corporations will. And you can't vote for CEOs.
Rampant cronyism and corruption
When the corporate interests are in power, this is a given.
Fraudulent elections
No, because there won't be any elections. CEOs are dictators.
Rampant sexism
Because workplace inequality has never been a problem

[Death Metal]

Furthermore, to truly understand how government can be a defense against tyranny, one must first accept that rights and freedoms are meaningless without someone to enforce said rights.

[Kintuckistan]

Not in a very good way. Our debt is skyrocketing, and Barack Obama supports the federal reserve, which is inflating our money supply. He also signed the NDAA and reauthorized the PATRIOT act.

Thank you for doing research into the chaotic events of our day and age. I commend you.

[Ruridova]

Furthermore, to truly understand how government can be a defense against tyranny, one must first accept that rights and freedoms are meaningless without someone to enforce said rights.

True that.

[Brabrantium]

The first Colored President to show that America is home to all cultures

[Death Metal]

He does have a point there, you calling him a fascist has more to do with an insult than proper analysis.

Death Metal is correct, though. AnCaps are fascist, whether they agree with the label or not.

Seriously. They don't like the idea of state-run economies, but can't understand that when your most powerful entities are large corporations, these corporations will inevitably become the state, and thus you get a state-run economy. You'd think the concept of power vacuums would be easy to comprehend.

[Kintuckistan]

I guess this all depends on any future major-war to erupt between now and 2016.
Sorry for my lack of optimism.

[Applejaxc]

Puerto Rico doesn't want to be a 51st state. You realize that, right? As a territory, their citizens enjoy the life benefits of American citizenship but few of the drawbacks.
For example:
Free travel within the US without a passport.
Protection from invasion and harm.
Ready business partners.
Only the territory pays a tax, out of their GDP (or GNP?) to America; the people do not owe a dime of their money, in taxes, to the US. Suffice to say, they prefer it as our tax rate/bracket system would shunt a lot of Puerto Ricans into poverty, compared to what they had previously.

Guam is the same way, as the rest of America's territories.

As for gay marriage... let's just say my NationState isn't amending shit is unlikely to do much.

[Kintuckistan]

Seriously. They don't like the idea of state-run economies, but can't understand that when your most powerful entities are large corporations, these corporations will inevitably become the state, and thus you get a state-run economy. You'd think the concept of power vacuums would be easy to comprehend.

I'm a conservative and I can strangely agree to this statement.