AI: Israel is stealing water

[Schlauberger]

Yeah, my only source is my memory of a documentary I saw a few months ago. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to.

I just prefer sources to someone's recollection of something they saw on tv a few months ago. It's ok though, it's not that important of an issue to get into a fight over.

Irrigating farmland with desalinated water? Desalinating water is expensive, not because of the building cost of the installation, but because it requires terrible amounts of energy. It's not a coincidence that the Gulf states are practically the only ones who use them.

Actually, the Middle East accounts for 75% of the world's desalination plants. If the Palestinians' oil rich brothers would actually step up and help for once, then they could easily supply all the energy needed for the plant. It's not like this will ever happen though. The Arab countries use the Palestinian struggles for political motives, and the Palestinian leadership thrives on propagating the image of being a helpless victim. Any steps taken towards self-sufficiency would put a damper on the foreign cash flow.

EDIT: and besides, it's not like Israel wouldn't bomb the installation as soon as it's built.

Doubtful. If something like that were to happen, then what meager support Israel had internationally would vanish in a cloud of smoke. They may be hawkish, but Israel isn't stupid.

[Risottia]

While Israeli settlers in the West Bank enjoy lush gardens and swimming pools, Amnesty describes a series of Israeli measures it says are discriminating against Palestinians:

• Israel has "entirely appropriated the Palestinians' share of the Jordan river" and uses 80% of a key shared aquifer
• West Bank Palestinians are not allowed to drill wells without Israeli permits, which are "often impossible" to obtain
• Rainwater harvesting cisterns are "often destroyed by the Israeli army"
• Israeli soldiers confiscated a water tanker from villagers who were trying to remain in land Israel had declared a "closed military area"
• An unnamed Israeli soldier says rooftop Palestinian household water tanks are "good for target practice"
• Much of the land cut off by the West Bank barrier is land with good access to a major aquifer
• Israeli military operations have damaged Palestinian water infrastructure, including $6m worth during the Cast Lead operation in Gaza last winter
• The Israeli-Egyptian blockade of Gaza has "exacerbated what was already a dire situation" by denying many building materials needed for water and sewage projects.

I really think that the EU should provide and build desalinization plants in the Gaza Strip and a nice aqueduct going directly into the West Bank. And if the Israeli raise a finger, blockade their trade until the become more reasonable.

More water for Palestinians => better living conditions => less extremists => more chances for peace.

[Araraukar]

Doubtful. If something like that were to happen, then what meager support Israel had internationally would vanish in a cloud of smoke. They may be hawkish, but Israel isn't stupid.

The only international support Israel has had for a decade is that of USA.

[North Suran]

EDIT: and besides, it's not like Israel wouldn't bomb the installation as soon as it's built.

Doubtful. If something like that were to happen, then what meager support Israel had internationally would vanish in a cloud of smoke. They may be hawkish, but Israel isn't stupid.

The invasion of Lebanon, much?

The Israeli executive doesn't give a shit about its international standing; as long as it has the backing of the Western powers, all the UN can do is piss and whine.

[Hairless Kitten II]

Doubtful. If something like that were to happen, then what meager support Israel had internationally would vanish in a cloud of smoke. They may be hawkish, but Israel isn't stupid.

The only international support Israel has had for a decade is that of USA.

The EU and Israel committed themselves to establishing a partnership which provides for close political and mutually beneficial trade and investment relations together with economic, social, financial, civil scientific, technological and cultural cooperation.
The Action Plan concluded with Israel helped give new energy and focus to EU-Israel relations. Its objective is to gradually integrate Israel into European policies and programmes. Every step taken is determined by both sides and the Action Plan is tailor-made to reflect Israel’s interests and priorities as well as its level of development.
There is also, for the first time, a financial assistance element to EU-Israel cooperation - Israel is eligible for €14 million in European Community financial cooperation over the next seven years.

http://ec.europa.eu/external_relations/ ... dex_en.htm

[Schlauberger]

I really think that the EU should provide and build desalinization plants in the Gaza Strip and a nice aqueduct going directly into the West Bank. And if the Israeli raise a finger, blockade their trade until the become more reasonable.

More water for Palestinians => better living conditions => less extremists => more chances for peace.

Seconded.

[Araraukar]

The only international support Israel has had for a decade is that of USA.

--lots of bureaucratic political info snipped from here--

I don't like EU either, and I live here, but at least most of the countries in it recognize Palestinian rights to living as human beings, not as dogs.

State of Palestine recognition map from Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... on-map.png
From this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Notice how USA is one of the few grey ones, who don't think there's anything to the claim of being a people and a nation? Recognizing the state would be a big step towards being able to demand rights to the people living in it.

EDIT: Not a thread-jack, I swear! Was just replying to claims...

[ThinkPads]

Amnesty International going after Jews is old hat; anti-Semitic goons will grasp at any straws to further their evil agendas.

[Lockion]

we should just let the middle eastern countries destroy themselves.....its going to happen anyway. Then we can go in clean up and say i told you so.

[ThinkPads]

The only international support Israel has had for a decade is that of USA.

--lots of bureaucratic political info snipped from here--

I don't like EU either, and I live here, but at least most of the countries in it recognize Palestinian rights to living as human beings, not as dogs.

State of Palestine recognition map from Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... on-map.png
From this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Notice how USA is one of the few grey ones, who don't think there's anything to the claim of being a people and a nation? Recognizing the state would be a big step towards being able to demand rights to the people living in it.

EDIT: Not a thread-jack, I swear! Was just replying to claims...

What people? What nation? "Palestinians" didn't even exist as a concept until 1967. They were, and largely still are, Jordanian Arabs. Yassir Arafat, the genocidal terrorist who did the most to invent the "Palestinian," was himself an Egyptian born in Cairo.

[Schlauberger]

The invasion of Lebanon, much?

Which one: 1978, 1982 or 2006?

The Israeli executive doesn't give a shit about its international standing; as long as it has the backing of the Western powers, all the UN can do is piss and whine.

This kind of act would remove Israel of its backing from Western powers. The Palestinians win the public image battle by being seen as poor helpless victims. Destroying a large-scale Palestinian attempt at becoming self-sufficient would be the dumbest thing Israel could do. Again, Israel may be hawkish, but they aren't stupid.

[Araraukar]

What people? What nation? "Palestinians" didn't even exist as a concept until 1967. They were, and largely still are, Jordanian Arabs. Yassir Arafat, the genocidal terrorist who did the most to invent the "Palestinian," was himself an Egyptian born in Cairo.

Yeah, and Israel didn't exist until after second world war either. Your point being?

BTW, unless you have a comment on the water issue, this continues off on a threadjack tangent... -_-

[Hairless Kitten II]

Amnesty International going after Jews is old hat; anti-Semitic goons will grasp at any straws to further their evil agendas.

You have a source that's explaining that Amnesty International is an anti-Semitic club?

[Araraukar]

Destroying a large-scale Palestinian attempt at becoming self-sufficient would be the dumbest thing Israel could do. Again, Israel may be hawkish, but they aren't stupid.

So... if we build it, they destroy it and then claim it was some stupid soldier and fire a platoon of them and then congratulate themselves on 1) further suppressing Palestinians and 2) washing their hands from the issue.

Someone suggested an aqueduct earlier. I'd agree with that - it would become the favourite bombing target of every faction in the area, so maybe the real targets (which would include water desalination plants and waste water management plants) would be left alone.

[Hairless Kitten II]

What people? What nation? "Palestinians" didn't even exist as a concept until 1967. They were, and largely still are, Jordanian Arabs. Yassir Arafat, the genocidal terrorist who did the most to invent the "Palestinian," was himself an Egyptian born in Cairo.

The name "Palestine" is the cognate of an ancient word meaning "Philistines" or "Land of the Philistines".[3][4][5] The earliest known mention is thought to be in Ancient Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu which record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset) among the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III's reign.[6] The Hebrew name Peleshet (פלשת Pəléshseth)- usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote the southern coastal region that was inhabited by the Philistines to the west of the ancient Kingdom of Judah.[7]
The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the same region Palashtu or Pilistu in his Annals.[3][4][4][8] In the 5th century BCE, Herodotus wrote in Ancient Greek of a 'district of Syria, called Palaistinê" (whence Palaestina, whence Palestine).[3][9][10][11]
According to Moshe Sharon, Palaestina was commonly used to refer to the coastal region, and shortly thereafter, the whole of the area inland to the west of the Jordan River.[3] The latter extension occurred when the Roman authorities, following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba rebellion in the 2nd century CE, renamed "Provincia Judea" (Iudaea Province; originally derived from the name "Judah") to "Syria Palaestina" (Syria Palaestina), in order to complete the dissociation with Judaea.[12][13]
During the Byzantine period, the entire region (Syria Palestine, Samaria, and the Galilee) was named Palaestina, subdivided into Diocese I and II.[14] The Byzantines also renamed an area of land including the Negev, Sinai, and the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutoris, sometimes called Palaestina III.[14]
The Arabic word for Palestine is Philistine (commonly transcribed in English as Filistin, Filastin, or Falastin).[15] Moshe Sharon writes that when the Arabs took over Greater Syria in the 7th century, place names that were in use by the Byzantine administration before them, generally continued to be used. Hence, he traces the emergence of the Arabic form Filastin to this adoption, with Arabic inflection, of Roman and Hebrew (Semitic) names.[3] Jacob Lassner and Selwyn Ilan Troen offer a different view, writing that Jund Filastin, the full name for the administrative province under the rule of the Arab caliphates, was traced by Muslim geographers back to the Philistines of the Bible.[16]
The use of the name "Palestine" in English became more common after the European renaissance.[17] The name was officially revived and used after the fall of the Ottoman Empire (1517–1917) and applied to the territory in this region that was placed under the British Mandate for Palestine.
Some other terms that have been used to refer to all or part of this land include Canaan, Greater Israel, Greater Syria, the Holy Land, Iudaea Province, Judea,[18] Israel, "Israel HaShlema", Kingdom of Israel, Kingdom of Jerusalem, Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael or Ha'aretz), Levant, Retenu (Ancient Egyptian), Southern Syria, and Syria Palestina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#Origin_of_name

[Araraukar]

*looks at wall of text*

HK, I wuv you, but you neeeeed to start giving people shorter answers if you want them to read them... just give a link with the detailed answer in it.

[Hairless Kitten II]

*looks at wall of text*

HK, I wuv you, but you neeeeed to start giving people shorter answers if you want them to read them... just give a link with the detailed answer in it.

This is not Sesame Street. At NationStates, people are able to read a few lines.

[Schlauberger]

You have a source that's explaining that Amnesty International is an anti-Semitic club?

Perhaps not anti-semitic, but definitely biased against Israel.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-ders ... 28257.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 30,00.html
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/4878_62.htm

[Kobrania]

And the huffington post isn't?

[Fson]

Stay classy, Israel.

This

[Schlauberger]

So... if we build it, they destroy it and then claim it was some stupid soldier and fire a platoon of them and then congratulate themselves on 1) further suppressing Palestinians and 2) washing their hands from the issue.

No, if a stupid Israeli soldier destroyed it, then Israel would pay to have it fixed or replaced. They have paid for structures that were destroyed either accidentally or purposefully by a rogue soldier in the past.

[Dismembermia]

At NationStates, people are able to read a few lines.

The way my screen's set up, that was 53 lines of solid text. And the way I was taught, "few" means something between 2 (pair) and 6 (half a dozen).

Not to be a threadjackfag, why should we help Palestinians get water at all? Let the situation worsen to the point that even the powers that be get fed up with Israel and just nuke the whole place to the ground. (Or at least pull off the political equivalent of the same.)

[Fson]

Amnesty International going after Jews is old hat; anti-Semitic goons will grasp at any straws to further their evil agendas.

You have a source that's explaining that Amnesty International is an anti-Semitic club?

Oh thats definitley it, Israel are infact supplying the people of the west bank with cola on demand, and Amnesty International is just a bunch of Nazis who hate Israel and make up lies..


Seriously go to Gaza and say that...

[Araraukar]

They have paid for structures that were destroyed either accidentally or purposefully by a rogue soldier in the past.

Really?

[Iceland-Thule]

Whats the point of this thread?
There is nothing new about the Israelis treating the Palestinians like shit.


BTW i bet this thread is going to end in a flamewar.