Taxes are theft

[Neo Art]

gold medal please!

You, friend, deserve it.

Eh, I've picked it up once or twice, I think the last round I was silver.

[Sibirsky]

Then save some money and buy yourself some assets. What's stopping you? Taxes?

Underemployment, actually.

Shit. That's rough. Well, I hope you find a job soon.

[Sibirsky]

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

They seem to have been doing rather well for the last few hunthousand years. I'd like to see you explain how they are going to cause the entire financial system to collapse.

Sure they work well. If you ignore the massive death and destruction caused by them.

Well... the US government has assets of somewhere around negative $67 trillion. And god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. You think that is sustainable?

[Sibirsky]

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

Well, last time that the market collapsed, it was because the government wasn't involved enough.

Financial collapse =/= market panic.

[Oppressorion]

Taxes are the cost of having a government, among others, and things like roads are the benefits. But it's not a trade.

Any exchange of goods or services is a trade, no matter who the parties are. By being part of 'the system', so to speak, you agree to abide by its laws (including paying taxes) and in exchange are protected by the police (Garda, in your case), hospitals, and education. You give them stuff (taxes, freedom to commit illegal acts), and you get stuff (roads, infrastructure, education, healthcare). Ergo, trade.

EDIT: This is not enforced rigidly, of course, as putting tollbooths on every road ever, for example, would be stupidly expensive. It is implicit by you living in a country that you accept its TOS.

[Sibirsky]

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

If governments did that, one'd expect it to have already collapsed by now...

Nah, these things take time. And there is time to correct the situation. If something is done about it. But I suspect, nothing major will be done.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

They seem to have been doing rather well for the last few hunthousand years. I'd like to see you explain how they are going to cause the entire financial system to collapse.

Sure they work well. If you ignore the massive death and destruction caused by them.

Well... the US government has assets of somewhere around negative $67 trillion. And god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. You think that is sustainable?

Prove the first sentence.

The second one isn't representative of "government" in an abstract form. That's a US-specific problem.

[Conscentia]

If governments did that, one'd expect it to have already collapsed by now...

Nah, these things take time. And there is time to correct the situation. If something is done about it. But I suspect, nothing major will be done.

Governments have been around for a very long time.

[Merriwhether]

So...what? You just wanted to speak your opinion and watch the resulting clusterfuck?

Does it matter why I started the thread or why I post here? It's certainly not to change anyone's opinions or to change my own. Nothing short of brain damage will ever make me agree with your or become a socialist/communist/fascist considering that my own ideology has been very successful for me. Nothing is going to detract me from believing that taxes aren't theft, and that I'm not being represented by the amount I give to the state.

THEN WHAT'S THE POINT IN THE EFING THREAD!!!

The last thing you do when wanting not to have your political views ridiculed in base a topic on them on a political game consisting mostly of "socialist/communist/fascist"s. What you just did, and thought was logical, was thuroughly coat yourself in gravy and run into the wolf habitat at the zoo.

[Sibirsky]

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

Or in other words: DOOOOM!
Governments have worked pretty well thus far. If I recall correctly most of our financial instability is caused by corporations.

Lol, yeah, doom, if we don't change our ways.

Corporations do more stupid shit in the short term. Government do more long term damage.

[Sibirsky]

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

Is that an argument? Because I don't think your tin-foil hat predictions eclipse the weight of evidence supporting the functionality of government.

Pick a function.

[Sibirsky]

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

Did you fill out a W-4?

Yes. Because I was forced to.

[Frisivisia]

Or in other words: DOOOOM!
Governments have worked pretty well thus far. If I recall correctly most of our financial instability is caused by corporations.

Lol, yeah, doom, if we don't change our ways.

Corporations do more stupid shit in the short term. Government do more long term damage.

Governments have been around for a long time. This must be some pretty delayed-action damage.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes. Because I was forced to.

Did someone put a gun to your head?

Or, like when you purchase food from a supermarket, did you do so because it was necessary?

[Frisivisia]

Did you fill out a W-4?

Yes. Because I was forced to.

No you weren't.

[The Black Forrest]

Or in other words: DOOOOM!
Governments have worked pretty well thus far. If I recall correctly most of our financial instability is caused by corporations.

Lol, yeah, doom, if we don't change our ways.

Corporations do more stupid shit in the short term. Government do more long term damage.

Define short term. I have seen stupid shit happen with long term consequences.

Usually the hit is covered by layoffs.......

[Conscentia]

They seem to have been doing rather well for the last few hunthousand years. I'd like to see you explain how they are going to cause the entire financial system to collapse.

Sure they work well. If you ignore the massive death and destruction caused by them.

If Sociobiology were here I'm sure he'd point out that proportionately more people were killed due to violence prior to the existence of states. I recall him doing so on one of them there x vs. communism threads.

[Sibirsky]

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

You are an immigrant right?

You basically agreed to it on citizenship.

It is illegal to be a "stateless person." Seriously. Imagine I am so fed up with the feds that I want to renounce my citizenship. I must have another citizenship before I can do that.

Contracts change all the time. Credit card people changed the terms all the time well when I had them. Software vendors apply new Eulas. The cloud will make it easier for them to change the agreement on a whim.

But we are notified of those changes. And if need be, we can break those contracts.

[Condunum]

Did you fill out a W-4?

Yes. Because I was forced to.

The last time I filled out a W-4, the shift manager told me to only sign it if I agreed with it. You aren't under and obligation to sign a W-4.

[Conserative Morality]

Sure they work well. If you ignore the massive death and destruction caused by them.

If Sociobiology were here I'm sure he'd point out that proportionately more people were killed due to violence prior to the existence of states. I recall him doing so on one of them there x vs. communism threads.

I believe this was one of his links: http://www.edge.org/images/sp-Slide011.jpg

[Sibirsky]

Sure they work well. If you ignore the massive death and destruction caused by them.

Well... the US government has assets of somewhere around negative $67 trillion. And god knows how much in unfunded liabilities. You think that is sustainable?

Prove the first sentence.

The second one isn't representative of "government" in an abstract form. That's a US-specific problem.

I need to prove things like the Holocaust, Holomodor, world wars and god knows how many more smaller wars?

This is why I left.

US specific? Sure if you ignore almost every other government out there. Europe? Of course! Japan? You wouldn't believe it. China? Even China, on the local level.

[Sibirsky]

Nah, these things take time. And there is time to correct the situation. If something is done about it. But I suspect, nothing major will be done.

Governments have been around for a very long time.

And they collapse all the time too. Your point?

[Sibirsky]

Yes. Because I was forced to.

Did someone put a gun to your head?

Or, like when you purchase food from a supermarket, did you do so because it was necessary?

I did because it was necessary.

[Conscentia]

Governments have been around for a very long time.

And they collapse all the time too. Your point?

Just doesn't seem like government = doom.

[Camelza]

Taxes aren't theft, you see the "state" is a cooperative organisation you take part in and are a member of (believe it, or not) that has rules and responsibilities in exchange for benefits and rights, if you don't want any of the benefits and rights a state gives you then either move to Somalia, or any other seemingly out-of-control country-region, and try your luck without partaking in any organisation there, completely alone and independent.

You could succeed, I don't doubt that there are chances you could, but cooperation is the civilised way of achieving success.