Taxes are theft

[Frisivisia]

Not sick enough to leave, eh?

Well? Neurosis is a common ailment of the generalite.

I know this all too well.

[Sibirsky]

A couple years ago, he was a much better debater. He doesn't really try not because, IIRC, he's just getting sick of the site.

Not sick enough to leave, eh?

Lol, I guess not.

[Scomagia]

You aren't being forced. If you don't like paying taxes, move to one of the many high-functioning societies without them.

Oh, wait. I don't even think Somalia's like that anymore. Did you know that they have democratically elected politicians now? That's right - a government. Because governments work.

I suppose you could just wait for the galt-island thing in New York to be completed.

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

Or in other words: DOOOOM!
Governments have worked pretty well thus far. If I recall correctly most of our financial instability is caused by corporations.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

You aren't being forced. If you don't like paying taxes, move to one of the many high-functioning societies without them.

Oh, wait. I don't even think Somalia's like that anymore. Did you know that they have democratically elected politicians now? That's right - a government. Because governments work.

I suppose you could just wait for the galt-island thing in New York to be completed.

Governments work. That's cute. Will you be saying that when they cause the entire financial system to collapse?

Is that an argument? Because I don't think your tin-foil hat predictions eclipse the weight of evidence supporting the functionality of government.

[Frisivisia]

Because you aren't adhering to our rules.

Or, in Capitalist Speak, you are violating the contract that you implicitly are participating in by paying the required fees and signing the requisite paperwork to work in this country, and thus, according to the terms laid out in the contract, you are obligated to either continue following the terms set out, receive the penalty for not doing so, or leave.

Like companies, countries are not obligated to submit to the whims of any individual or set of individuals, it's all about the masses.

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

You sign the contract every day. Stop using public services and your name is no longer on that contract.

[Condunum]

Because you aren't adhering to our rules.

Or, in Capitalist Speak, you are violating the contract that you implicitly are participating in by paying the required fees and signing the requisite paperwork to work in this country, and thus, according to the terms laid out in the contract, you are obligated to either continue following the terms set out, receive the penalty for not doing so, or leave.

Like companies, countries are not obligated to submit to the whims of any individual or set of individuals, it's all about the masses.

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

Did you fill out a W-4?

[Scomagia]

Because you aren't adhering to our rules.

Or, in Capitalist Speak, you are violating the contract that you implicitly are participating in by paying the required fees and signing the requisite paperwork to work in this country, and thus, according to the terms laid out in the contract, you are obligated to either continue following the terms set out, receive the penalty for not doing so, or leave.

Like companies, countries are not obligated to submit to the whims of any individual or set of individuals, it's all about the masses.

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

You continue to agree by remaining in the society in question.

[Conserative Morality]

I never signed any contract.

You ever pay your taxes?

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

For the same reason that companies that you buy from don't have to beg and scrape at your feet for your agreement when they make decisions; because the input of any single individual is pretty pointless.

[The Black Forrest]

Because you aren't adhering to our rules.

Or, in Capitalist Speak, you are violating the contract that you implicitly are participating in by paying the required fees and signing the requisite paperwork to work in this country, and thus, according to the terms laid out in the contract, you are obligated to either continue following the terms set out, receive the penalty for not doing so, or leave.

Like companies, countries are not obligated to submit to the whims of any individual or set of individuals, it's all about the masses.

I never signed any contract.

And why do the terms of the contract change so often, so much, and yet again without my agreement? Or... anyone's agreement pretty much.

You are an immigrant right?

You basically agreed to it on citizenship.

Contracts change all the time. Credit card people changed the terms all the time well when I had them. Software vendors apply new Eulas. The cloud will make it easier for them to change the agreement on a whim.

[Sibirsky]

And go where? Another country? With their own taxes? Brilliant idea.

I hear Monaco has some pretty low taxes.
Alternatively, go live off the land. People with no income don't pay tax.

Monaco is expensive. And they have the VAT. Stamp duty, social insurance if you get residency and a job. Inheritance and gift taxes.

why should I be forced to leave?

You aren't forced to leave. If you don't like it in a place, you may leave by choice or you put up with the problems.

Ok, that is what I am doing. But should I have to put up with the problems quietly, or am I allowed to speak about them?

[Sibirsky]

You didn't know that the Arachno-Capitalists were Secret Feudalists?

Clarification: Sib isn't an an-cap. He actually works, pays taxes and complains about them like the rest of us.

Thank you.

[North Stradia]

Yes, they most certainly are.

[Risottia]

If I were little boy playing with a ball one the playground, and someone took said ball against my will or conned me out of it, then such an act would be considered theft.

theft (thft)
n.
1. The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.

And since larceny is defined to be a breach of LAW, taxes, being imposed by law, aren't theft.

Thank you for proving it once more.

[Conserative Morality]

Ok, that is what I am doing. But should I have to put up with the problems quietly, or am I allowed to speak about them?

So long as you admit that you agreed to the terms, even if you find issue with them, because otherwise you're not being honest with yourself or with whoever you're talking to.

[Scomagia]

I hear Monaco has some pretty low taxes.
Alternatively, go live off the land. People with no income don't pay tax.

Monaco is expensive. And they have the VAT. Stamp duty, social insurance if you get residency and a job. Inheritance and gift taxes.

You aren't forced to leave. If you don't like it in a place, you may leave by choice or you put up with the problems.

Ok, that is what I am doing. But should I have to put up with the problems quietly, or am I allowed to speak about them?

Of course you can speak about what you see as a problem. That's one of the nifty bits of the social contract.

[Frisivisia]

I hear Monaco has some pretty low taxes.
Alternatively, go live off the land. People with no income don't pay tax.

Monaco is expensive. And they have the VAT. Stamp duty, social insurance if you get residency and a job. Inheritance and gift taxes.

You aren't forced to leave. If you don't like it in a place, you may leave by choice or you put up with the problems.

Ok, that is what I am doing. But should I have to put up with the problems quietly, or am I allowed to speak about them?

No one is stopping you from speaking, even if the massive libertarian hive-persecution-complex makes you think so. In fact, we're letting you speak, and arguing with you, even if it gets to the point of ridicule.

[Conscentia]

I hear Monaco has some pretty low taxes.
Alternatively, go live off the land. People with no income don't pay tax.

Monaco is expensive. And they have the VAT. Stamp duty, social insurance if you get residency and a job. Inheritance and gift taxes.

You aren't forced to leave. If you don't like it in a place, you may leave by choice or you put up with the problems.

Ok, that is what I am doing. But should I have to put up with the problems quietly, or am I allowed to speak about them?

Feel free to speak about them.

[Conscentia]

Yes, they most certainly are.

Taxes are not theft. Taxes are rent.

[Duvniask]

Yes, they most certainly are.

No. They most certainly are not, like a rent on an apartment, if you don't pay the owner, you will face the consequences (in this case that is whatever government, you live under).

[The Black Forrest]

Yes, they most certainly are.

No they are not.

Ok. you can give your robber home invasion analogy.

[Sibirsky]

You guys realize I was at like, 35000 posts in September of 2011, right?

Your post count is relevant because... ?

Because that means that in the first 30 months I was averaging Almost 1200 posts per month. Since then, less then 190 posts per month.

Take out the occasional F&NI I do, and I barely talk anymore. I don't care about something trivial like the percentage of the budget going to "defense." It's easy to find.

[Frisivisia]

Yes, they most certainly are.

Argument by assertation is bad.

You didn't know that the Arachno-Capitalists were Secret Feudalists?

Clarification: Sib isn't an an-cap. He actually works, pays taxes and complains about them like the rest of us.

An-Caps can participate in society as well, they just do so hypocritically, and Sibirsky's line of thought seems rather Arachno-Capitalist, if it's not, please inform me.

[Chinese Regions]

Yes, they most certainly are.

By that logic so is rent.

[Sibirsky]

Not sick enough to leave, eh?

He did take a break, although I suspect he just lurked at that time, because I don't remember him CTEing.

Nope. The nation never died.

[Ifreann]

Tell me, which government services require you to demonstrate that you've paid taxes before you can avail of them? Do the emergency services run a check before they'll respond?

As I said, it is assumed that you have paid taxes (that is, honest) by public services,

No, it isn't. It's just not relevant to them, because the government isn't a business. They aren't selling you services in trade for taxes. They are governing the country. They are using their powers of taxation to fund that.

because anyone who hasn't and has admitted it publically is in prison or fined.

Maybe. It's quite possible to be in a country and legally owe it no taxes. Tricky, depending on the country, but I dare say it could be done.

It'd be pretty pointless to ask since everyone'll give the same answer regardless of the truth, but it is implicit in the social contract - you pay a road tax on your car, and in exchange you have a road to drive it on.

Taxes are the cost of having a government, among others, and things like roads are the benefits. But it's not a trade.