Taxes are theft

[Neo Art]

plagarist.

With credit to Neo Art. Better?

That's Dr. Art to you.

[Condunum]

Find that shit yourself if you really want it.

So you're wrong? Cool.

All he did was chime in. God damn, is it really necessary to me this snobby?

[The Black Forrest]

So you're using stuff that you didn't pay for. Isn't THAT theft?

No, because it's given to me of their own free will through non-coercive means.

Ok. For fun; what services exactly?

[The Black Forrest]

So you're wrong? Cool.

All he did was chime in. God damn, is it really necessary to me this snobby?

You love it.

[Frisivisia]

No, they can't. Poor people can't afford bodyguards or mercenary armies. This would provide a monopoly on force for the rich, which ends up being neo-feudalism. Oh, and your bitching is called freedom of speech, but it's still bitching.

1) There would be fewer poor. 2) Defense would probably be funded by insurers. 3) Premiums would generally be lower in general, for things we have insurance already for. 4) The very poor wouldn't have much to insure. 5) Life insurance is already fairly cheap. 6) And there are charities and other programs to help them.

1) Bullshit.
2) Doubt it.
3) Bullshit.
4) What happens to the poor people when you get invaded and the rich are cowering in their mansions with their private armies?
5) Cheap is a subjective term, which, for most people doesn't apply to Life Insurance
6) Charity will step in and arm the homeless. For sure.

[Sibirsky]

Find that shit yourself if you really want it.

So you're wrong? Cool.

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

[Oppressorion]

It is not 'given to you' - they are providing a service in exchange for you paying taxes, which you have allowed them to believe without bothering to correct them. This is because most people pay taxes -read: honest- so everyone assumes that you have unless told otherwise. This is known as presumption of innocence, and generally thought of as a good thing.

Tell me, which government services require you to demonstrate that you've paid taxes before you can avail of them? Do the emergency services run a check before they'll respond?

As I said, it is assumed that you have paid taxes (that is, honest) by public services, because anyone who hasn't and has admitted it publically is in prison or fined. It'd be pretty pointless to ask since everyone'll give the same answer regardless of the truth, but it is implicit in the social contract - you pay a road tax on your car, and in exchange you have a road to drive it on.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

We both know that's not how burden of proof works.

[Duvniask]

Now now, this isn't about how we could hypothetically do without taxes. This is about how they're theft.

taxes are theft! wages are slavery! skittles are rape!

In the case of Trayvon Martin, skittles were death instead.

[Condunum]

Then pay for those things yourselves, quit using government services, and stop talking to us blinded, hopeless sheeple.

Whoa ok. You say that shit, like we have a fucking choice.

You actually do. On frontier land, you have the full ability to live outside of government influence.

[Frisivisia]

So you're wrong? Cool.

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

Burden of Proof is on you to prove yourself right, not me wrong. How the fuck did you get that debating Silver Medal?

[The Black Forrest]

This shit again? Look, if you don't like it, then vote for someone who'll lower taxes. If they don't win or if they stab you in the back, leave the country. Now please quit bitching and let the rest of us enjoy our protection from violent criminals and foreign invasions.

Those things can be privately funded. In any case, that is what we are doing. Oh and our, "bitching" is actually called "freedom of speech."

Indeed. We called it feudalism.

[Cromarty]

So you're wrong? Cool.

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

You know debate doesn't work that way.

[Yaltabaoth]

No, because it's given to me of their own free will through non-coercive means.

Ok. For fun; what services exactly?

Services paid for by other people's taxes, obviously.

[Sibirsky]

Find that shit yourself if you really want it.

If you do not source it, it'll be thrown out almost immediately.

[Condunum]

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

We both know that's not how burden of proof works.

And if you look back, all he was doing was providing what he thought it was, as opposed to the original claim of 55%.

[Frisivisia]

Those things can be privately funded. In any case, that is what we are doing. Oh and our, "bitching" is actually called "freedom of speech."

Indeed. We called it feudalism.

You didn't know that the Arachno-Capitalists were Secret Feudalists?

[The Joseon Dynasty]

No, you're paying for them through taxes. Is that so hard to understand?

If you go into a restaurant, do you assume they're giving you free food because you haven't yet paid for it?

He's actually right. Availing of government services is not necessarily predicated on paying taxes. You see, folks, the government isn't a business.

Although the usage of government services might not be a direct transaction, taxation is a form of "payment". Although some people use government services without paying tax, and others pay tax without using government services, taxation in the primary source of government revenue. In that sense, these services are not broadly "free".

[Sibirsky]

Whoa ok. You say that shit, like we have a fucking choice.

Leave the country if you don't want to pay.

And go where? Another country? With their own taxes? Brilliant idea.

Also, why should I be forced to leave?

[Sibirsky]

Whoa ok. You say that shit, like we have a fucking choice.

That's your problem, not mine. Take that determination and enterprise you ancaps are so fond of and figure out a way to make it work. If you can't, then too fucking bad, enjoy April 15.

I'm not an ancap, but whatever.

I pay my taxes.

[Condunum]

I'm not wrong. I'm just not going to spend my time proving it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. If not, just drop it.

Burden of Proof is on you to prove yourself right, not me wrong. How the fuck did you get that debating Silver Medal?

A couple years ago, he was a much better debater. He doesn't really try not because, IIRC, he's just getting sick of the site.

[Sibirsky]

Burden of Proof is on you to prove yourself right, not me wrong. How the fuck did you get that debating Silver Medal?

A couple years ago, he was a much better debater. He doesn't really try not because, IIRC, he's just getting sick of the site.

That sums it up quite well.

[Wisconsin9]

Leave the country if you don't want to pay.

And go where? Another country? With their own taxes? Brilliant idea.

Also, why should I be forced to leave?

Go to Somalia, perhaps, where the government's so shit that they pretty much can't tax you. Or set up a "Galt's Island" somewhere in the Pacific. You call yourself a smart person, so figure something out.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Leave the country if you don't want to pay.

And go where? Another country? With their own taxes? Brilliant idea.

Also, why should I be forced to leave?

You aren't being forced. If you don't like paying taxes, move to one of the many high-functioning societies without them.

Oh, wait. I don't even think Somalia's like that anymore. Did you know that they have democratically elected politicians now? That's right - a government. Because governments work.

I suppose you could just wait for the galt-island thing in New York to be completed.

[Frisivisia]

Leave the country if you don't want to pay.

And go where? Another country? With their own taxes? Brilliant idea.

Also, why should I be forced to leave?

We have mountains. You can hunt and gather away from all us sheeple free from the tyranny of taxation.

Because society is the norm, not the exception.