Taxes are theft

[Sibirsky]

And?

I can not buy from them. And not give them my money. If I want their stuff, I will pay them for it. I have choices.

Of course you do. We're wondering why you don't use that power to leave the state.

Why the fuck should I leave my entire life behind? And for what? To go to another state and pay taxes there?

The GTFO argument is idiotic.

[Sibirsky]

Getting to keep more (or all) of the product of your labor, is not infringing on anyone's rights. Unlike rape or murder.

I like how you slipped in "more", implying you already knew that a post like this was coming, pointing out that if today I made a company £200,000 I am not going to get paid £200,000.

That's another debate.

[Neo Art]

How does letting people do whatever they want to do with their money and hiring those that can't afford public benefits in public institutions which are providing those public benefits and paying them back in public benefits rather than money? Self-sufficient,no?

You want to hire poor uneducated people to be doctors? So that they can treat each other and get health care that way?

How the fuck is that going to work?

[Souseiseki]

i might or i might not but i like to think that if everyday was a insult to everything i believe in i'd at least try and leave

Leave where?

the jungles of brazil? build an artificial libertarian island and hope you live?

it kinda sucks that everyone else has also decided statism is the way to go but that's not really an argument

[Kengburg]

i might or i might not but i like to think that if everyday was a insult to everything i believe in i'd at least try and leave

Leave where?

Puerto Rico! No Federal Tax! Worst school systems and highest crime rate in the country, (because it does not get all the benefits tax paying states do.)

[Sibirsky]

Do you even know what a contract is?

You should cut down on the personal attacks and try some actual arguments.

So instead of refuting me you ask me a pointless question that didn't move the discussion forward. Great argument. I remain astounded by this amazing debating.

Instead of answering a legitimate question in the discussion, you engage in personal attacks.

You obviously have no idea how contracts actually work.

[Mavorpen]

Of course you do. We're wondering why you don't use that power to leave the state.

Why the fuck should I leave my entire life behind? And for what? To go to another state and pay taxes there?

The GTFO argument is idiotic.

But you have a CHOICE to leave. What happened to that? Do you admit that on certain things you don't have a choice? Because seriously every normal person has understood this since they were 5 years old.

[Genivaria]

Leave where?

the jungles of brazil? build an artificial libertarian island and hope you live?

it kinda sucks that everyone else has also decided statism is the way to go but that's not really an argument

Not being an anarchist does not = being a statist.

[Williamson]

Of course you do. We're wondering why you don't use that power to leave the state.

Why the fuck should I leave my entire life behind? And for what? To go to another state and pay taxes there?

The GTFO argument is idiotic.

well you could always go to the cayman islands

[Mavorpen]

So instead of refuting me you ask me a pointless question that didn't move the discussion forward. Great argument. I remain astounded by this amazing debating.

Instead of answering a legitimate question in the discussion, you engage in personal attacks.

You obviously have no idea how contracts actually work.

You obviously have no idea how contracts actually work.

See, I can refuse to be constructive too. You want to end this stupid and childish game and actually debate?

[Sibirsky]

All of that could be privately and voluntarily funded.

Oh, so some millionaires would fund the whole US government out of the kindness of their hearts? Try to come up with $15,000,000,000,000

What? Are you high?

You've heard of private roads, schools and hospitals, right? You are aware that they exist?

[Souseiseki]

I like how you slipped in "more", implying you already knew that a post like this was coming, pointing out that if today I made a company £200,000 I am not going to get paid £200,000.

That's another debate.

Is it?

[Souseiseki]

the jungles of brazil? build an artificial libertarian island and hope you live?

it kinda sucks that everyone else has also decided statism is the way to go but that's not really an argument

Not being an anarchist does not = being a statist.

We went over this with Yandere earlier. If you're not an anarchist, and you're not a statist, then what are you?

[Cameroi]

the principal flaw in any debate, is that reality doesn't give a dam who wins or looses it.

taxes are the price of the existence of governments.

that is not a moral judgement of either governments or taxes. it is (i hope) a completely non-judgmental observation.

whether a government attempts to protect economic hegemony from the objections of real people, places and things,
or to protect real people, places and things, from the tyranny of economic hegemony,
one way or another, a government is going to find some way to extract "taxation".

as for the existence of governments, in the absence of an absolute and universal self discipline, governments have an extremely high probability of existing.

in other words, reality doesn't give a dam whether taxes are theft or not.
which humans of course, are free to continue pointlessly debating.

[Sibirsky]

All of that could be privately and voluntarily funded.

In the past, many of these items were privately funded, and it went horribly. The days of private fire departments, church run schools for only those who could afford it... thankfully we're past the days when we thought of our selves as individuals and realized we're a community. You're welcome to live in the 1850's if you want, just don't drag the rest of us back there with you.

The notion of private everything falls apart with the simplest logic. If everything was private and voluntarily funded, things like schools would quickly fall apart: why would someone without children pay to schooling? Where would people without disposable income send their kids? If fire departments were all private and someone couldn't pay, if their house went up, it'd likely damage other houses in the area before burning to the ground, at which point there is now blighted land in the neighborhood. If cops were all private, someone couldn't pay, they could get murdered, leaving a criminal on the loose, now with more experience to get away with it next time.

The "pay for what you want" logic is anything but logical. It assumes everyone has spare money (a lot of spare money) and assumes that success is solely based on personal efforts, both of which couldn't be further from the truth.

We still have private fire departments, police forces, roads, schools, hospitals, etc.

The rest of your point, is not backed up by evidence of any kind.

There is no assumption being made, that everyone would have money to spare.

[Mavorpen]

the jungles of brazil? build an artificial libertarian island and hope you live?

it kinda sucks that everyone else has also decided statism is the way to go but that's not really an argument

Not being an anarchist does not = being a statist.

Actually he's right. Believing that the state has any role in social, political or economic affairs is statism.

[Kamchastkia]

*DELETED*

[Kengburg]

Oh, so some millionaires would fund the whole US government out of the kindness of their hearts? Try to come up with $15,000,000,000,000

What? Are you high?

You've heard of private roads, schools and hospitals, right? You are aware that they exist?

And you are aware of the alarming amount of scandals revolving around private hospitals, and the huge tuition to go to a private school, right?

[Enadail]

Oh, so some millionaires would fund the whole US government out of the kindness of their hearts? Try to come up with $15,000,000,000,000

What? Are you high?

You've heard of private roads, schools and hospitals, right? You are aware that they exist?

Private roads: the minority in the country, and few people can afford to make them

Private schools: the minority in the country, and few people can afford it

Private hospitals: I'd estimate the majority hospitals in the country, but are still obliged to provide medical care in the case of an emergency... few are public in the US, because the US does shit about health care.

[Republica Newland]

How does letting people do whatever they want to do with their money and hiring those that can't afford public benefits in public institutions which are providing those public benefits and paying them back in public benefits rather than money? Self-sufficient,no?

You want to hire poor uneducated people to be doctors? So that they can treat each other and get health care that way?

How the fuck is that going to work?

It might sound piss poor for something as complex as Healthcare,but what about Agriculture? Manufacturing? Utilities? Construction? Mining? Logging? Sanitation?

Someone has to do these jobs too.

[Souseiseki]

[
And you are aware of the alarming amount of scandals revolving around private hospitals

it's the governments fault

and the huge tuition to go to a private school, right?

it's the governments fault

trust me, i'm expert on laissez fairehology. i can predict their responses within 99% accuracy.

[Conserative Morality]

What?

Rarely is the 'keeping the product of one's labors' line brought up outside of communist circles, and with good reason: capitalist systems do not allow workers to retain the products of their labor in most cases.

[Neo Art]

You want to hire poor uneducated people to be doctors? So that they can treat each other and get health care that way?

How the fuck is that going to work?

It might sound piss poor for something as complex as Healthcare,but what about Agriculture? Manufacturing? Utilities? Construction? Mining? Logging? Sanitation?

Someone has to do these jobs too.

....and they do. We have miners, and farmers, and loggers, and sanitation workers and utility pole climbers. Yes, someone has to do those jobs. They already are.

If your means of providing food, shelter, and clothing to the poor is "let them work the mines!" then what the fuck are you going to do with the miners we already have?

[Enadail]

You want to hire poor uneducated people to be doctors? So that they can treat each other and get health care that way?

How the fuck is that going to work?

It might sound piss poor for something as complex as Healthcare,but what about Agriculture? Manufacturing? Utilities? Construction? Mining? Logging? Sanitation?

Someone has to do these jobs too.

It might sound piss poor for healthcare? It makes NO SENSE in healthcare. Or manufacturing. Or mining. Or sanitation.

Healthcare is by far the most complex of those jobs sets, but even in sanitation, you need training and some to a lot of education to do various jobs in the field. Who's going to pay for that training/education? Its going to magically happen? Who's going to upgrade those systems, and maintain them over time?

An in the end, your little plan just creates a dual society... the poor living in one area, working their way to get basic necessities, thus forever doomed to never do any better, while the rich continue to stay rich because their economy is the only one with money.

[Mavorpen]

It might sound piss poor for something as complex as Healthcare,but what about Agriculture? Manufacturing? Utilities? Construction? Mining? Logging? Sanitation?

Someone has to do these jobs too.

....and they do. We have miners, and farmers, and loggers, and sanitation workers and utility pole climbers.

If your means of providing food, shelter, and clothing to the poor is "let them work the mines!" then what the fuck are you going to do with the miners we already have?

Turn them into loggers. *nods*