Taxes are theft

[Neo Art]

Of course it is, because you ADMITTED you were robbing him. You already showed that it was theft. You didn't even attempt to show how taxes are theft because that would be circular logic.

Gold medal debating.

[Yorkopolis]

How many times does it take before you understand that taxes are legal and theft isn't?

Semantics.

The entity with the power to tax, defines legal terms. Hmmm...

And thusly taxes are legal, and theft isn't. As long as the government - the rightful owner of the property AKA the land upon which you live and of which you have a passport AKA a social contract - issues taxes, it is legal, and thus to argue taxes are theft would be to argue that something legal is illegal, and to even believe something as disconnected from reality as that statement is one would have to apply the principle of doublethink; believe it and yet know it is fallacious.

[Republica Newland]

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

[Conscentia]

Thy analogy fails.
He defines taxation as "taking one's money for valuable services that are given to the person you took it from."
The services are given to the person who lost the cash.

Except that is bullshit. Taxes pay for services whether you pay taxes or not.

I didn't say he was correct. Only that thy analogy fails when applied to his definitions.

[Kengburg]

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

Of course it is, because you ADMITTED you were robbing him. You already showed that it was theft. You didn't even attempt to show how taxes are theft because that would be circular logic.

Le scheme of de circular logic is revealed (cue suspicious music)

[Neo Art]

Are you going to argue without using circular logic?

There is no circular logic here,it's just denial on your part.

Why do you support letting rapists go free?

[Sibirsky]

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

Silver medal debating right there!

Watch it.

I ask you, how many times does it take you, or any other lolbertarian to realize that taxes are legal, theft is not?

This sums up the title: Legal is illegal. Except in this case, legal is taxes and illegal is theft. To understand and acknowledge this as a truth one would have to apply the principles of doublethink.

Are you that dense? How difficult is it to understand that the legal definition is irrelevant?

The entity that has the power to define what is legal, and illegal, has decided that taxes are legal. And collects those taxes.

[Republica Newland]

There is no circular logic here,it's just denial on your part.

Why do you support letting rapists go free?

Oh,the poor strawman.

[Kengburg]

Silver medal debating right there!

Watch it.

I ask you, how many times does it take you, or any other lolbertarian to realize that taxes are legal, theft is not?

This sums up the title: Legal is illegal. Except in this case, legal is taxes and illegal is theft. To understand and acknowledge this as a truth one would have to apply the principles of doublethink.

Are you that dense? How difficult is it to understand that the legal definition is irrelevant?

The entity that has the power to define what is legal, and illegal, has decided that taxes are legal. And collects those taxes.

Yes and the "entity" is a group of individuals elected by the people for their beliefs, so in sense, taxation is chosen by the people.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

And? Was there a point to stating the obvious? Do you want a slow round of applause for your ability to state the obvious?

[Neo Art]

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

.....yes. Yes it does. That's pretty much the crux of it, yes. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Look, I know you don't LIKE it. I know you don't LIKE the fact that the government can compel you to give up money, I know you wish that it couldn't. I know you think it's "unfair" that the government gets to take your stuff, but if you tried that it'd be theft.

And I'm sure there are thousands of rapists, murderers, robbers, arsonists, abusers and con men who don't LIKE the fact that the government can put them in little cages. I know they wish it couldn't. I know they think it's "unfair" that the government gets to put them in cages, but if they tried it'd be kidnapping.

My answer to you is the same as my answer to them.

Too fucking bad.

[Sibirsky]

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

If it's legal, then it isn't theft. I know that is a hard legal concept to understand, but seriously, it might be worth the time to consider.

You of all people should understand that I am not arguing about the legal definition of theft. That is not a hard concept to grasp. Try it.

The government defines what is legal and what is illegal. Taxes are legal. I have never said that taxes are illegal. That isn't what this debate is about.

[Neo Art]

Why do you support letting rapists go free?

Oh,the poor strawman.

You're quite awful at this aren't you?

[Kamchastkia]

How the heck is being able to choose between the private and the public sector communist?

You just said that the idea of tenants and landlords is feudal. Which, in context, implies that you dislike it.

So, you hate property, and thus are a communist.

AHHH YUH DAMN COMMIES AHHHH. Fear mongering at its best without the ability to understand what communism actually is.

[Sibirsky]

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

Have you ignored all the posts? THE POINT IS THAT TAXATION IS NOT THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't give a fuck about the legal definition.

Taxes are not voluntary and are paid under a threat of force.

[Republica Newland]

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

And? Was there a point to stating the obvious? Do you want a slow round of applause for your ability to state the obvious?

This is incredible!!! No,no,please don't trouble yourselves!!! I will applaud your post myself!!!

[Yorkopolis]

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

Except taxes are legal, theft isn't. And, to break your bubble, money isn't yours, look at the banknotes. What's the US banknotes say? It says "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE", this means it is property of the Federal Reserve AKA the government.

[Neo Art]

Taxes are not voluntary and are paid under a threat of force.

The sky is blue

Bears shit in the woods

The pope has a funny hat

[Yorkopolis]

Taxes are not voluntary and are paid under a threat of force.

The sky is blue

Bears shit in the woods

The pope has a funny hat

And not a single fuck was given that day.

[Ceannairceach]

If it's legal, then it isn't theft. I know that is a hard legal concept to understand, but seriously, it might be worth the time to consider.

You of all people should understand that I am not arguing about the legal definition of theft. That is not a hard concept to grasp. Try it.

The government defines what is legal and what is illegal. Taxes are legal. I have never said that taxes are illegal. That isn't what this debate is about.

Theft is a legal term, though. Using any other definition when arguing about potential policy is not useful.

[Republica Newland]

This is pretty much sums up tax supporters' logic.

Except taxes are legal, theft isn't. And, to break your bubble, money isn't yours, look at the banknotes. What's the US banknotes say? It says "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE", this means it is property of the Federal Reserve AKA the government.

Or,to be more concise,is toilet paper the democratically-elected and very wise government keeps on printing shittons of,because,you know,they are like the Government,and errything is OK cause they are in charge.

[Mavorpen]

Have you ignored all the posts? THE POINT IS THAT TAXATION IS NOT THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't give a fuck about the legal definition.

Taxes are not voluntary and are paid under a threat of force.

The sun warms the earth. News at 11.

[Pdiiek]

The question should be "Is taxation wrong, and why?". Taxation isn't wrong, provided it goes towards government investment in infrastructure, education, welfare, healthcare and other things that are ultimately beneficial to society. Taxation is a necessary and inevitable part of living in a complex modern society. Whether it's technically theft, extortion or anything else we usually see as "bad" is irrelevant.

[Sibirsky]

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Yes, exactly right. Just why it's ok to vote large groups to have the power to arrest. To have the power to inpsect. To have the power to do a thousand other things that would be illegal if a private person tried to do it.

There is no intellectual honest reason, none what so ever, to argue that "taxes are theft" but not argue "arrests are kidnapping".

And since nobody, not even you, are prepared to argue that the government should not have the clear, legitimate authority to maintain law and order through the power to arrest, you must admit that it's OK for the government to do some things that private people aren't allowed to do.

And once you admit that, there's no intellectually honest ability to maintain that it's "bad" for the government to be able to do things the private person can't do vis-a-vis taxes/larceny but it's "good" for the government to be able to do things the private person can't do vis-a-vis arrests/kidnapping

You don't have to LIKE it, and I'm not saying you should. But to somehow be so terribly shocked that "it's ok to vote large groups" to do things that normal people can't do is frightfully intellectually dishonest.

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

Head and shoulders above the "taxes are legal, therefore not theft" arguments.

The power to arrest is ultimately necessary if any of its other powers are to be enforced.

I am not shocked at any of it.

[Sibirsky]

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people" - can you steal from yourself?

Yes, but what would be the point?