Taxes are theft

[Ceannairceach]

Because you are obligated to pay taxes if you are a resident US citizen. It's like a country club revoking your membership for not paying the fees.

If you don't want to pay taxes, renounce your citizenship and kindly leave.

"If you don't want to pay taxes, renounce your citizenship and kindly leave."

The policies and systems proposed by me are politically impossible to instate in the US,you do realize this is all just hypothetical talk right? Like what would be the right way for a state to work.

And that statement was hypothetical.

You do realize this, right?

[Conscentia]

Theft: Taking one's money for another's gain
Taxation: Taking one's money for valuable services that are given to the person you took it from (Public Education, Federal Hospitals, Police Department, Fire Department, Military) In sense, if we removed taxation, the US would turn into an anarchy. So just because you get mad at the Obamacare tax does not mean all taxes are theft.

My nephew is dying of cancer. I rob you, you pay for his treatment.

Not theft. It went to a valuable service (healthcare) and saved his life.

Thy analogy fails.
He defines taxation as "taking one's money for valuable services that are given to the person you took it from."
The services are given to the person who lost the cash.

[Norstal]

So you do admit it's an outdated system reminiscent to Feudalism?

People don't rent houses in the USA?

No. More like, our education system apparently doesn't teach basic fucking logic or economics.

[Kengburg]

I might have normally agreed.. but the money being "stolen" is going towards a better life for the people, and our country. If a boy took your ball, that would be theft. Though, if a boy took your ball, sold it for more, and got a better ball , would you be happy? Of course. This is quite a strange opinion.

Horrible Example, it is more like this:
Everyone in the class has $10, there is an idea for a pizza party, but to buy everything everyone has to give $2, everyone gives two dollars, then the class has the pizza party. If someone were to say "NO! I AM NOT GIVIN MY $2", then it wouldn't be fair for them to be attending the party, and they probably would have to go to another class, but you can't just send someone elsewhere in real life taxation, so if you do not pay your taxes, you shouldn't be entitled to the Public School, Police, etc. that everyone else pays for. So that's why we have the IRS

[Sibirsky]

My nephew is dying of cancer. I rob you, you pay for his treatment.

Not theft. It went to a valuable service (healthcare) and saved his life.

Maybe you should give up on analogies. I mean you clearly stated that you robbed him. That pretty much destroys any point you were attempting to make.

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

[Mavorpen]

People don't rent houses in the USA?

No. More like, our education system apparently doesn't teach basic fucking logic or economics.

The economics and logic of fucking? Sounds like an interesting class.

[Neo Art]

No it does not.Robbing = To steal from, especially using force or violence or threat thereof.

Technically merely stealing is larceny. Robbery requires a threat or use of force. Regardless, the definition, as pointed out again, quite simply, is that you are a private citizen and the government is the government.

The government can do a whole LOT of things normal people can't do. Seriously, enough of this fucking bullshit of "if I take your money it's theft, how come it's ok when the GOVERNMENT does it, HUH?"

If you grab a guy, put him in cuffs, then lock him in a cage against his will, under a threat of the use of lethal force, that's a whole slew of crimes, including assault, battery, kidnapping, and false imprisonment. Yet when the government does it it's called "arrest". If you walk into someone's factory, and try to make them show you their equipment, that's called trespassing. Yet when the government does it it's called "inspection". If you flood someone's body with lethal chemicals it's called murder. Yet when the govenrment does it it's called "lethal injection".

The government does a whole lot of things private people can't do. That's fine, they're the government.

Why aren't you there screaming "that's kidnapping!" everytime the government arrests somebody?

You being sent to the slammer for not paying taxes is a pretty obvious threat in my book.

That's....nice?

[Sibirsky]

My

You are not the democratically elected and legally empowered legitimate government of a sovereign nation. The rest of what you had to say was irrelevant due to this fact.

An analogy only works when like is compared with like. This is clearly not the case here.

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

[Mavorpen]

Maybe you should give up on analogies. I mean you clearly stated that you robbed him. That pretty much destroys any point you were attempting to make.

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

Of course it is, because you ADMITTED you were robbing him. You already showed that it was theft. You didn't even attempt to show how taxes are theft because that would be circular logic.

[Yorkopolis]

Maybe you should give up on analogies. I mean you clearly stated that you robbed him. That pretty much destroys any point you were attempting to make.

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

Silver medal debating right there!
I ask you, how many times does it take you, or any other lolbertarian to realize that taxes are legal, theft is not?

This sums up the title: Legal is illegal. Except in this case, legal is taxes and illegal is theft. To understand and acknowledge this as a truth one would have to apply the principles of doublethink.

[Sibirsky]

No it does not.Robbing = To steal from, especially using force or violence or threat thereof.You being sent to the slammer for not paying taxes is a pretty obvious threat in my book.

Because you are obligated to pay taxes if you are a resident US citizen. It's like a country club revoking your membership for not paying the fees.

If you don't want to pay taxes, renounce your citizenship and kindly leave.

People are not born with country club memberships. People do not have to change their entire life to quit a country club. People do not have to pay, to quit the country club.

[Mavorpen]

You are not the democratically elected and legally empowered legitimate government of a sovereign nation. The rest of what you had to say was irrelevant due to this fact.

An analogy only works when like is compared with like. This is clearly not the case here.

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

Are you going to argue without using circular logic?

[Ceannairceach]

You are not the democratically elected and legally empowered legitimate government of a sovereign nation. The rest of what you had to say was irrelevant due to this fact.

An analogy only works when like is compared with like. This is clearly not the case here.

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

If it's legal, then it isn't theft. I know that is a hard legal concept to understand, but seriously, it might be worth the time to consider.

[Kengburg]

You are not the democratically elected and legally empowered legitimate government of a sovereign nation. The rest of what you had to say was irrelevant due to this fact.

An analogy only works when like is compared with like. This is clearly not the case here.

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

Have you ignored all the posts? THE POINT IS THAT TAXATION IS NOT THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sibirsky]

My nephew is dying of cancer. I rob you, you pay for his treatment.

Not theft. It went to a valuable service (healthcare) and saved his life.

Yet people have access to healthcare when they pay their taxes, they always get something back when they give. If you don't pay your taxes, then you aren't entitled to any services the government gives.

Lol what?

I don't think you have any idea of how taxes and spending actually work.

[Neo Art]

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Yes, exactly right. Just why it's ok to vote large groups to have the power to arrest. To have the power to inpsect. To have the power to do a thousand other things that would be illegal if a private person tried to do it.

There is no intellectual honest reason, none what so ever, to argue that "taxes are theft" but not argue "arrests are kidnapping".

And since nobody, not even you, are prepared to argue that the government should not have the clear, legitimate authority to maintain law and order through the power to arrest, you must admit that it's OK for the government to do some things that private people aren't allowed to do.

And once you admit that, there's no intellectually honest ability to maintain that it's "bad" for the government to be able to do things the private person can't do vis-a-vis taxes/larceny but it's "good" for the government to be able to do things the private person can't do vis-a-vis arrests/kidnapping

You don't have to LIKE it, and I'm not saying you should. But to somehow be so terribly shocked that "it's ok to vote large groups" to do things that normal people can't do is frightfully intellectually dishonest.

Yes, the government can do things the private person can not. That's because they're the government.

[L Ron Cupboard]

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people" - can you steal from yourself?

[Sibirsky]

No it does not.Robbing = To steal from, especially using force or violence or threat thereof.You being sent to the slammer for not paying taxes is a pretty obvious threat in my book.

How many times does it take before you understand that taxes are legal and theft isn't?

Semantics.

The entity with the power to tax, defines legal terms. Hmmm...

[Ceannairceach]

How many times does it take before you understand that taxes are legal and theft isn't?

Semantics.

The entity with the power to tax, defines legal terms. Hmmm...

Pretty much.

[Republica Newland]

Ah, so it's ok to vote large groups to have the power of theft, but not individuals or smaller groups.

Got it.

Are you going to argue without using circular logic?

There is no circular logic here,it's just denial on your part.

[Neo Art]

Semantics.

The entity with the power to tax kidnap, defines legal terms. Hmmm...

Why don't you think rapists and murderers shouldn't be arrested?

[Sibirsky]

My nephew is dying of cancer. I rob you, you pay for his treatment.

Not theft. It went to a valuable service (healthcare) and saved his life.

Thy analogy fails.
He defines taxation as "taking one's money for valuable services that are given to the person you took it from."
The services are given to the person who lost the cash.

Except that is bullshit. Taxes pay for services whether you pay taxes or not.

[Sibirsky]

No, it doesn't. The exchange of funds, was not voluntary.

Of course it is, because you ADMITTED you were robbing him. You already showed that it was theft. You didn't even attempt to show how taxes are theft because that would be circular logic.

[Mavorpen]

Are you going to argue without using circular logic?

There is no circular logic here,it's just denial on your part.

Really? "Taxes are theft because it's robbing citizens because they steal," ad naseum isn't circular logic? I think you're in dire need of a dictionary.

[Mavorpen]

Of course it is, because you ADMITTED you were robbing him. You already showed that it was theft. You didn't even attempt to show how taxes are theft because that would be circular logic.

Thank you for your concession.