Taxes are theft

[Liriena]

And obviously military personnels will say "hey, we have guns to take over whole of the country defended by rag tag bunch of men with guns but we wont". Moment state ceases to exist, military dictatorship will take its place within matter of days.

I'm not an anarchist.

Yet the things you propose are rejected even by the most ardent minarchists. Minarchists believe that the state has the duty to enforce the law and protect the nation (police and military, respectively).

[Chinese Regions]

You say you don't benefit from the military either?
Okay, good luck when there is a surprise invasion by Canada.

The military serves the common defense, so yes, I would benefit from the military if they were not of course hitting at beehives with sticks.

And they are funded through tax.

[Immoren]

Fear of punishment is one deterrent to crime. No police, no fear of punishment.

Police forces could be either localised or privatised. I reckon the majority of the country won't need a local police station, and that they're perfectly adept at protecting themselves with their own weapons.

[Great Nepal]

And obviously military personnels will say "hey, we have guns to take over whole of the country defended by rag tag bunch of men with guns but we wont". Moment state ceases to exist, military dictatorship will take its place within matter of days.

I'm not an anarchist.

So, how do you purpose to keep the state and army without taxes?

[Chinese Regions]

I'm not an anarchist.

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

People can protect the state in their "free time" just like students can learn maths in their "free time".

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

I'm not an anarchist.

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become excessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

[Souseiseki]

I'm not an anarchist.

Walking paradox or just the largest hypocrite ever? Or both?

he is ardently opposed to anarchy yet uses statist as an insult it's quite hilarious

[Yorkopolis]

I'm not an anarchist.

So, how do you purpose to keep the state and army without taxes?

That's the thing. He doesn't.

[Khadgar]

I'm not an anarchist.

So, how do you purpose to keep the state and army without taxes?

Private funding obviously. Whoever pays the guys with guns has them on their side. Until the guys with guns decide to just take it.

[Liriena]

Police forces could be either localised or privatised. I reckon the majority of the country won't need a local police station, and that they're perfectly adept at protecting themselves with their own weapons.

Implied facepalm: When something is so unbelievably stupid that a full and proper facepalm is not necessary.

[Yorkopolis]

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become excessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

Why is something necessary evil?

[Chinese Regions]

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become obsessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

How are people meant to prove that they aren't using said services 24/7?

[Kleomentia]

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become excessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

So you have made this thread to say that Taxes are theft but that we should keep taxes? And then taxes which are necessary are evil. Wait, wut?

[Conscentia]

Then how do you expect the state to continue to function without taxes?

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become excessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

What would these services be exactly?

And how can something necessary be evil?

[Great Nepal]

So, how do you purpose to keep the state and army without taxes?

Private funding obviously. Whoever pays the guys with guns has them on their side. Until the guys with guns decide to just take it.

No one will pay the guys with the guns because guys with biggest guns and nukes and bombers and missiles are already largest, most well trained and best organised gang ever. Within matter of hours, they will come in, take over the land pronounce themselves supreme overlord.
Edit: Oh, and all of your money and soul belongs to them.

[Kleomentia]

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become excessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

What would these services be exactly?

Air, i suspect.

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

My stance is that taxes are theft, yes, but they're necessary evil. Taxes in the US, and around the world have become obsessive. People shouldn't have to pay for services, nationwide, that they're using nor reap any direct benefit from.

How are people meant to prove that they aren't using said services 24/7?

Sales tax. Ex. Roads should be funded by gas tax, car tax, toll booths and through donations or fundraisers.

[Great Nepal]

How are people meant to prove that they aren't using said services 24/7?

Sales tax. Ex. Roads should be funded by gas tax, car tax, toll booths and through donations or fundraisers.

And how should army and bureaucracy be funded?

[Republica Newland]

"..and that they're perfectly adept at protecting themselves with their own weapons."

Of course.You obviously aren't going to make police disappear,but rather reducing its' activity/numbers.You will find that putting some effort into informing the people,giving them an affordable alternative to private training,and allowing access to weapons (including guns) to be as unrestricted as possible as long as its' for the right purpose will be both more effective and cost-effective in the long run.

[The Black Forrest]

How are people meant to prove that they aren't using said services 24/7?

Sales tax. Ex. Roads should be funded by gas tax, car tax, toll booths and through donations or fundraisers.

I can image toll booths on LA freeways.

Hell around here they would bring traffic to a crawl.

Usury taxes? Nahh... I would rather take your money.

[Khadgar]

Sales tax. Ex. Roads should be funded by gas tax, car tax, toll booths and through donations or fundraisers.

And how should army and bureaucracy be funded?

I'm so glad he's off the gold standard kick, this is way funnier.

[Republica Newland]

How does this sound?

Voluntaryism kind of sounds right somehow.

Compulsive taxation should be reduced to the bare minimum.Other than that,there should be a free (but minimally regulated) market where you can choose between the private or the public sector.

So,to wrap it all up.Here's a concept which allows the citizens to choose how big or small their Govt is,while at the same time guaranteeing basic benefits.

Tax Phase 1
A very low tax rate is mandatory for everyone.Should be really low.Let's call this a minimum mandatory tax (MMT).This ensures the very bare minimum of public benefits (such as public roads).

Tax Phase 2
A minimum level of livelihood (MLL) will be set in place.This sets a standard for access to basic food,water,sanitation,shelter,healthcare,education,physical security,social security - so on and so forth.It reflects the citizens' basic necessities.It is universal,meaning that it's the same for everybody.The MLL is something that the government guarantees no matter what.

Now you have 3 options:

Route A: Choose not to use the public sector at all to meet MLL requirements = Pay no taxes at all. (except for the MMT)

If you choose to go this way,you will first have to prove that you can afford to pay for your privately-sourced MLL. Then you will have to prove that you are actually meeting MLL requirements.This would be achieved by having to show the Government contracts with private companies that guarantee your MLL (such as the minimum set level of health insurance,social security,and so on).

Overview: You will not receive any public benefits at all other than what is covered by the MMT.

Route B: Choose to use both the public sector and the private sector to meet MLL requirements = Pay taxes proportional to the public benefits you receive.(+MMT)

You choose what percent of your income/assets' value/so and so forth/ you want to pay to the public sector as tax.You receive public benefits proportional to what you pay,and you choose the exact benefits (and how much of them) you want to receive (for example you can choose public education while relying on the private sector for your healthcare).If the percentage you choose to pay as tax isn't sufficient and/or your choice doesn't fulfill MLL requirements,then you will first have to prove that you can afford to pay for the rest of the benefits that are required to meet the MLL that you want to receive from the private sector.Then you will have to prove that you are actually meeting MLL requirements.This would be achieved by having to show the Government contracts with private companies that guarantee the rest of your MLL requirements (such as the minimum set level of health insurance,social security,and so on) are met.

Overview: You will choose what you want to receive from the public sector and what you want from the private sector.Your public benefits are proportional to how much you pay.

Route C: Choose to use the public sector only to meet MLL requirements = Pay taxes proportional to the public benefits you receive. (+MMT)

You choose what percent of your income/assets' value/so and so forth/ you want to pay to the public sector as tax.You receive public benefits proportional to what you pay,and you choose the exact benefits (and how much of them) you want to receive.If the percentage you choose to pay as tax is sufficient AND your choice fulfills MLL requirements,then there is nothing else to prove.From this point you can source anything above the MLL either from the public or the private sector,it's up to you.

Overview: Your MLL will be guaranteed by the taxes you pay.Your benefits are still proportional to how much you pay,meaning that the rest of your taxes that aren't taken up by the cost of the MLL are publicly-sourced extras on top of the MLL (such as a more comprehensive public healthcare insurance,a larger pension for you public social security,so on and so forth) which are also chosen by you.

---

The whole system and all private companies whose products/services ensure the citizens' MLL are carefully monitored and controlled by the Government.Although their contracts can be long-term,these companies are obliged to pay the cost of their clients' publicly-sourced MLL equivalent to the Government periodically - for example - each year.At the end of each year,this is rebated back to the companies.This ensures that in the event in which such a company would go bankrupt or for whatever other reason would be unable/unwilling/whatever to ensure its clients' MLL,then its' contracts will be terminated,publicly provided MLL will replace its' services for the year,and then when the year ended the citizen would have the option of either choosing another private provider or switching over to publicly sourced benefits.

For those that can't afford even the publicly sourced MLL,the Government will take a 3 step approach:

1.Providing career conciliation/reorientation,else
2.Employment in public institutions with payment in public benefits over money so as to reach MLL (note this is actually self-sustainable),else
3.Accepting whatever the citizen can afford and funding the difference to what is needed to achieve the MLL.

Repeat as needed.

Doesn't sound too bad now does it? Not exactly the soulless free-for-all capitalist arena that you'd expect from a concept which involves such a degree of public/private market freedom and tax choice.

[Conscentia]

Hang on. If the police are private, who's there to stop the private police force from demanding people pay additional taxes?

[Khadgar]

Hang on. If the police are private, who's there to stop the private police force from demanding people pay additional taxes?

Pure motherfucking magic.

Or a perpetual motion machine.

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

Sales tax. Ex. Roads should be funded by gas tax, car tax, toll booths and through donations or fundraisers.

And how should army and bureaucracy be funded?

Tariffs and taxes on drugs, prostitution and other discouraging behaviors.