The Best RL leader your nation ever had?

[Divair]

I've already gone to another countries. About 40 or so, in fact. Some are worse, some are better. I'm leaving for one far better, and some random person on a forum whining about national pride isn't going to stop me.

טוב, אתה מקרה אבוד, חבל.

Yes, I'm a lost cause for nationalists whining on a forum. What a fucking shame.

[Free Tristania]

Roman "democracy" was not a democracy but a plutocracy or olicharchy where only the rich reigned supreme and the older the family name (and the family fortune) the better.

For satirical purposes, you could exaggerate and claim that there are certain parallels to today... that would be an exaggeration, but it still points out an inherent danger in a republic. One neither Rome nor our modern democracies are immune against.

That's certainly true but the Romans never used the word democracy to describe themselves but instead used the term res publica. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a republic. The Roman elite hated the plebeians and they were just good enough for support and to die for them during wars.

[Ashkland]

You know what the pharse says: "Neighbour's garden looks greener". When you will go to another country, you will think "how horrible it is in here"

I can't see how a peaceful welfare state full of kind people would be worse than Israel.

Welfare state is horrible automatically.

[Lewina]

I've already gone to another countries. About 40 or so, in fact. Some are worse, some are better. I'm leaving for one far better, and some random person on a forum whining about national pride isn't going to stop me.

טוב, אתה מקרה אבוד, חבל.

This^^

Thank google for having a translator.

[Free Tristania]

I can't see how a peaceful welfare state full of kind people would be worse than Israel.

Welfare state is horrible automatically.

Until you are in desperate need of support. Like Ayn Rand who also collected benefit money like the fraud she was and who has never worked an honest day in her life.

[Fintanland]

That's certainly true but the Romans never used the word democracy to describe themselves but instead used the term res publica. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a republic. The Roman elite hated the plebeians and they were just good enough for support and to die for them during wars.

That is true. In fact, they argued that democracy (by their definition) invariably would lead to mob rule. Which is why their "res publica" tried to mix all the three forms known to them (aristocracy, democracy and despotism). And it did a fine job, until Mr. Octavian over there pulled out one of the components.

[Divair]

It's just more extreme here.

*cough* Because of the conservatives. *cough*

Hardly.

[Renetopia]

Josip Broz Tito.

Say what you want about him, people in post-Yugoslavian anti-communist countries still adore him.

[Meryuma]

Depends what you mean by "my nation".

Obama is destroying the country. He's not a good president, unless you consider that a good thing...

He's not destroying the country, he's make it better than ever.

He continues the increasingly authoritarian policies of the Bush administration vis a vis war and crime.

Don't care about my father's family's roots, don't care about tradition, don't care about national pride. English is the only language I will need in my future and the one I speak the most fluently. I don't see any use for another language, especially a language that barely anyone speaks like Hebrew.

I guess teenagers like you don't really understand the meaning of life, you will understand when you grow up.
I, unlike you, not just speak english fluently and having hebrew as my native language, but also learn new languages, such as Yiddish, and german.
Why do you hate your nation and tradition so much?

Oh god, you're both so disagreeable about this.

[Free Tristania]

That's certainly true but the Romans never used the word democracy to describe themselves but instead used the term res publica. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a republic. The Roman elite hated the plebeians and they were just good enough for support and to die for them during wars.

That is true. In fact, they argued that democracy (by their definition) invariably would lead to mob rule. Which is why their "res publica" tried to mix all the three forms known to them (aristocracy, democracy and despotism). And it did a fine job, until Mr. Octavian over there pulled out one of the components.

Exactly. It certainly worked (relatively) well when Rome was just a small city state but it eventually outgrew itself.

[Tunasai]

Depends on how you define good leader. If you define it by economically smart, then no, FDR is not. FDR was a terrible President. His economic policies were a disaster and if anything he extended the Great Depression nearly 6 years. The War pulled his economy out of the tank. The only thing FDR was good at was bringing Americans comfort. Other than that he wouldn't stand up to the USSR one bit.

JFK was a good leader. He was brave and new the stakes of the Cold War. He was honest, as he admitted of the Bay of Pigs. And he successfully navigated around the end of the world.

Ronald Reagan was a good leader
George HW Bush too

You obviously don't understand anything about Keynesian economics or how they work if you really think that FDR didn't help. And what does the USSR have to do with FDR? They were worse hit by the economic downturn than America; At the time, it was more likely that they were going to fall naturally than through American arms.

After studying economic policy for a long time I pretty sure I have a good understanding of Keynesian economics.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FD ... -5409.aspx

Since I can assume your probably some petty high school student or some liberal dropout I'll refer you to this. UCLA professors, yes more educated than you, did a study on why FDR failed and how he extended the Great Depression. Don't fool yourself and try to get a grasp on understanding

[Lewina]

*cough* Because of the conservatives. *cough*

Hardly.

Says the person that thinks learning a new language is stupid.

[Camelza]

The whole world is a huge "Middle-east" in that sense, I'm afraid.

It's just more extreme here.

I know, Canada is far better than Israel if you don't mind the colder climate and stupidly kind nature of most of the locals.

[Divair]

Hardly.

Says the person that thinks learning a new language is stupid.

I don't think learning languages is stupid (nor am I learning Hebrew, I already know it), I think that if you like languages or have a use for them, it's brilliant. When you don't care about languages and don't need a certain language, however, it's pointless to care about it.

[Meryuma]

I can't see how a peaceful welfare state full of kind people would be worse than Israel.

Welfare state is horrible automatically.

Welfare is the only non-horrible thing the state does.

[Divair]

It's just more extreme here.

I know, Canada is far better than Israel if you don't mind the colder climate and stupidly kind nature of most of the locals.

I like cold climates, won't bother me.

[Fintanland]

Exactly. It certainly worked (relatively) well when Rome was just a small city state but it eventually outgrew itself.

That is the root cause, I think, yes. Greed for new lands, conquest and imperialism made the old system untenable. We should not judge Augustus too harshly for wanting to hang on to the new conquests, even if it meant destroying the remains of democracy. Still, it makes him a power-hungry politician. Not particularly surprising, but also not someone great.

[Free Tristania]

Exactly. It certainly worked (relatively) well when Rome was just a small city state but it eventually outgrew itself.

That is the root cause, I think, yes. Greed for new lands, conquest and imperialism made the old system untenable. We should not judge Augustus too harshly for wanting to hang on to the new conquests, even if it meant destroying the remains of democracy. Still, it makes him a power-hungry politician. Not particularly surprising, but also not someone great.

And in that he was no better, no worse or, indeed, no different from any other ruler.

[Cosara]

United States: either George Washington, Abraham Lincoln or Ronald Reagan

[Phocidaea]

טוב, אתה מקרה אבוד, חבל.

This^^

Thank google for having a translator.

Google tells me that חבל [htl?] means "rope".

I'm not sure what relevance that has...

Is this an idiom I don't get, or a mistranslation, or is it idiom I am aware of involving rope?

[Fintanland]

And in that he was no better, no worse or, indeed, no different from any other ruler.

And that is why I would not consider him a "great" leader. Competent and smart, yes. But for "best", look for people such as Cincinnatus or even the Gracchi.

[Divair]

This^^

Thank google for having a translator.

Google tells me that חבל [htl?] means "rope".

I'm not sure what relevance that has...

It's a typo. He meant to say "a shame".

[Camelza]

I know, Canada is far better than Israel if you don't mind the colder climate and stupidly kind nature of most of the locals.

I like cold climates, won't bother me.

I could never live in a cold climate myself, so, I would rather choose Australia.
...the place that gave birth to the man that brought us NS must be a good place after all.

[Ashkland]

This^^

Thank google for having a translator.

Google tells me that חבל [htl?] means "rope".

I'm not sure what relevance that has...

Is this an idiom I don't get, or a mistranslation, or is it idiom I am aware of involving rope?

I said:
"Oh well, you are a lost cause, too bad".

[Revolution Land]

U.S.A.: We haven't had a good one since Lincoln.

FDR was good: he actually got shit done

The USSRL is post-revolution USA, so Lincoln and FDR are our best, and the "Great Donald Meyer" was the worst, as he proclaimed himself fascist dictator in the 80s. (Ronald Regan like)