The Future of the American Space Program?

[Czechanada]

Human bodies are too squishy, you'd get up a few hundred meters and the lowest tier would start to liquify. Scooped-out human skulls have much better strength-to-weight ratio, we should use them instead.

Skull pile our way into space?

Sounds like something out of 40K.

[Divair]

Skull pile our way into space?

Sounds like something out of 40K.

It must already exist in 40K.

[Supermarionation]

Human bodies are too squishy, you'd get up a few hundred meters and the lowest tier would start to liquify. Scooped-out human skulls have much better strength-to-weight ratio, we should use them instead.

Skull pile our way into space?

Sure. Thanks for volunteering. A polpotnaut training crew will be knocking on your door any minute now!

[Supermarionation]

Sounds like something out of 40K.

It must already exist in 40K.

That's one of the internet rules isn't it?

[Nazis in Space]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

Average size of a human is ~ 1.5 m.

Average distance to the moon is 384400000 m.

384400000 / 1.5 = 256266666.7, or rounded down (Don't want to stick the last one into the moon) 256266666 steps to the pyramid.

The first step of the pyramid alone would require 256266666^2 = 6.6 x 10^16 humans, or almost ten million times the population of earth. It'd also cover an area of approximately 6.6 x 10^16 x 0.25 m^2 = 1.6 x 10^16 m^2, or about thirty-two times the surface area of planet earth - oceans included.

The total number of humans in the pyramid is 1/3 x 1.6 x 10^16 m^2 x 384400000 m / (0.25 m x 1.5 m) = 5.5 x 10^24 humans, which isn't just 7.8 x 10^14 times the population of planet earth, but also masses (Assuming an average of 50 kg/ human) 2.7 x 10^26 kg, which is 45 times the mass of planet earth.

Considering the material expenses involved, as well as further complications (Sanitary infrastructure, nutritional requirements, oxygen support, the significantly altered gravitational field around Earth and the effects this has on the Moon's orbit - we don't want to have the moon act like a bowling ball to our pyramid of pins), I'm afraid that your unique approach, although laudable, may not be as practicable as it may first appear to be.

[Sociobiology]

If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here.

Indeed. Or at least on Mars or something, which would be habitable.

1.If there was oil under X we would already be pumping it.
do you see the flaw in your logic, namely that we discover things and invent technology.

2. actually turning it into an orbital fuel plant would be helpful. but not going extinct is the ultimate profit.
3. hell we had a near miss (inside lunar orbit) by a city killer sized asteroid in Dec. We didn't even see coming. That's as close as you get to warning shot.

1. While the principle is true, the fact is that the technology for travelling through space has not improved majorly since the Space Shuttle. And the actual fuel hasn't changed much at all, IIRC. The Saturn V first stage did burn LOX and Kerosene, but the second and third stages used LOX and LH. Robotics has advanced, but again, intelligent robots isn't really necessary on the moon (its not unreasonable to think that a mining robot could be piloted from Earth). Hell, even NEO mining isn't entirely unreasonable.

2. True.

3. Indeed.

1. yes and no, our closed system recycling technology has improved by leaps and bounds as has our solar and nuclear tech. For instance we can now build a ready to go ~10 MW nuclear powerplant small enough to be sent on single saturn V.
After all living on the moon is harder than getting there.
But yes we are still using the strap it to a rocket method when we should be preparing for a elevator.

[The Corparation]

Indeed. Or at least on Mars or something, which would be habitable.



1. While the principle is true, the fact is that the technology for travelling through space has not improved majorly since the Space Shuttle. And the actual fuel hasn't changed much at all, IIRC. The Saturn V first stage did burn LOX and Kerosene, but the second and third stages used LOX and LH. Robotics has advanced, but again, intelligent robots isn't really necessary on the moon (its not unreasonable to think that a mining robot could be piloted from Earth). Hell, even NEO mining isn't entirely unreasonable.

2. True.

3. Indeed.

1. yes and no, our closed system recycling technology has improved by leaps and bounds as has our solar and nuclear tech. For instance we can now build a ready to go ~10 MW nuclear powerplant small enough to be sent on single saturn V.
After all living on the moon is harder than getting there.
But yes we are still using the strap it to a rocket method when we should be preparing for a elevator.

Had NASA not ended the program due to post Apollo budget cuts we would of had a multimegawatt Nuclear Power Plant as the upper stage on a Saturn V.
Some of those engines generated thousands of Megawatts of energy. And they weren't concepts either. We actually built and tested these things. EDIT: Would like to make clear though that those thousands of megawatts was the amount of heat energy and not the electrical power you got from them.

[Cerillium]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

Average size of a human is ~ 1.5 m.

Average distance to the moon is 384400000 m.

384400000 / 1.5 = 256266666.7, or rounded down (Don't want to stick the last one into the moon) 256266666 steps to the pyramid.

The first step of the pyramid alone would require 256266666^2 = 6.6 x 10^16 humans, or almost ten million times the population of earth. It'd also cover an area of approximately 6.6 x 10^16 x 0.25 m^2 = 1.6 x 10^16 m^2, or about thirty-two times the surface area of planet earth - oceans included.

The total number of humans in the pyramid is 1/3 x 1.6 x 10^16 m^2 x 384400000 m / (0.25 m x 1.5 m) = 5.5 x 10^24 humans, which isn't just 7.8 x 10^14 times the population of planet earth, but also masses (Assuming an average of 50 kg/ human) 2.7 x 10^26 kg, which is 45 times the mass of planet earth.

Considering the material expenses involved, as well as further complications (Sanitary infrastructure, nutritional requirements, oxygen support, the significantly altered gravitational field around Earth and the effects this has on the Moon's orbit - we don't want to have the moon act like a bowling ball to our pyramid of pins), I'm afraid that your unique approach, although laudable, may not be as practicable as it may first appear to be.

It would be entertaining however.

[Sovjet Union]

My Military is integrated into my space agency

I have a far superior military

[Divair]

My Military is integrated into my space agency

I have a far superior military

What?

[Immoren]

My Military is integrated into my space agency

I have a far superior military

What?

I guess another one who hasn't been informed about OOC nature of the forum
*presses button to summon the guards*

[Aequalitia]

Okay....I go tell something hard: The future of the American space program is....going bad.

Why? Because, there is no planned manned space mission by NASA before 2020. And a long gap of 9 years of manned spaceflight for America. And we are just in 2013. The planned Orion manned spacecraft missions are still far away from a 100% that it gonna send in space manned. And with some presidents who not really like spaceflight (Bush JR, Obama) the delays become longer and longer...until its completely cancelled. NASA today is a bit ruined already, and I be afraid that it become maybe even more ruined next years.

And no, Private manned spaceflight companies as SpaceX are not the holy grail. Especially now, with only a Falcon-9 who got the chance of 1/4 for a failure of one of the engines of the Falcon-9. However, SpaceX is new, I give them a chance, and the private spaceflight companies are the good future for ISS missions, but let do the private spaceflight sector the very big things (Manned moon missions and beyond) Is not a good idea if there is no basic made by the Government(s) spaceflight program(s). And programs as Mars-one are very bad for the whole concept of spaceflight self, because we simple not must make from planets to a big-brother place.

And I laugh when I hear someone about Virgin Galactic, because its simple a show-spaceflight program what gonna failing. Because sub-orbital tourist trips marked become not for Virgin Galactic, but XCOR Aerospace. Why? Because its cheaper, and because I think it even got more links with big companies then Virgin Galactic.

[The Corparation]

Okay....I go tell something hard: The future of the American space program is....going bad.

Why? Because, there is no planned manned space mission by NASA before 2020. And a long gap of 9 years of manned spaceflight for America. And we are just in 2013. The planned Orion manned spacecraft missions are still far away from a 100% that it gonna send in space manned. And with some presidents who not really like spaceflight (Bush JR, Obama) the delays become longer and longer...until its completely cancelled. NASA today is a bit ruined already, and I be afraid that it become maybe even more ruined next years.

And no, Private manned spaceflight companies as SpaceX are not the holy grail. Especially now, with only a Falcon-9 who got the chance of 1/4 for a failure of one of the engines of the Falcon-9. However, SpaceX is new, I give them a chance, and the private spaceflight companies are the good future for ISS missions, but let do the private spaceflight sector the very big things (Manned moon missions and beyond) Is not a good idea if there is no basic made by the Government(s) spaceflight program(s). And programs as Mars-one are very bad for the whole concept of spaceflight self, because we simple not must make from planets to a big-brother place.

And I laugh when I hear someone about Virgin Galactic, because its simple a show-spaceflight program what gonna failing. Because sub-orbital tourist trips marked become not for Virgin Galactic, but XCOR Aerospace. Why? Because its cheaper, and because I think it even got more links with big companies then Virgin Galactic.

1)Can't really argue with this. NASA's really screwed over in terms of manned spaceflight. We should of started work and finished it before we finished the shuttle program. IN fact we should of done it ten to twenty years ago. But nope every program to do so got canned. And NASA has gone and sold the designs for one of the better ones to a private company. The Dream Chaser is just a repainted NASA program, same as the Bigelow Space Station modules are just repainted NASA transhabs.
2)Space-X's Falcon 9is easily the best launcher out there right now. It has a full flame out capability, a feature no rocket has shown since the Saturn V's were retired. Once Dragon Rider is finished it will probably be the safest manned launcher out there.
3)I'd hold of on rooting for XCOR until they actually build a working prototype.

[Aequalitia]

1)Can't really argue with this. NASA's really screwed over in terms of manned spaceflight. We should of started work and finished it before we finished the shuttle program. IN fact we should of done it ten to twenty years ago. But nope every program to do so got canned. And NASA has gone and sold the designs for one of the better ones to a private company. The Dream Chaser is just a repainted NASA program, same as the Bigelow Space Station modules are just repainted NASA transhabs.
2)Space-X's Falcon 9is easily the best launcher out there right now. It has a full flame out capability, a feature no rocket has shown since the Saturn V's were retired. Once Dragon Rider is finished it will probably be the safest manned launcher out there.
3)I'd hold of on rooting for XCOR until they actually build a working prototype.

1. I totally agree with that point, because a 9 year manned spaceflight gab is too much. And if NASA already got a new manned spacecraft ready almost directly after the last Shuttle launch, then there was not a big problem, maybe even the cuts are then less then normal. Also, good knowledge you got there, the Dream Chaser is a repainted X-38. And you knowledge is also good by the Transhab's

2. The Falcon-9 is a good launcher, but I will see first that it is launched 10 times before I give really a very big opinion about it. Lets hope that there known now how to not have again to have only 8 engines, but full 9 engines.

3. Do you known that Axe Apollo space academy thing? Its the first big success already for XCOR, so now the Lynx MUST come in less then 3 years, because else its a slab in there face for XCOR. But things as the Axe Apollo space academy I never seen by Virgin Galactic, so that makes me suggestion that Virgin Galactic is nothing more then a show-project stronger.

[Indira]

Ideally, investing in building easier, cheaper ways to get into space. Chances are, it's stuck with unmanned probes

[The Corparation]

1)Can't really argue with this. NASA's really screwed over in terms of manned spaceflight. We should of started work and finished it before we finished the shuttle program. IN fact we should of done it ten to twenty years ago. But nope every program to do so got canned. And NASA has gone and sold the designs for one of the better ones to a private company. The Dream Chaser is just a repainted NASA program, same as the Bigelow Space Station modules are just repainted NASA transhabs.
2)Space-X's Falcon 9is easily the best launcher out there right now. It has a full flame out capability, a feature no rocket has shown since the Saturn V's were retired. Once Dragon Rider is finished it will probably be the safest manned launcher out there.
3)I'd hold of on rooting for XCOR until they actually build a working prototype.

1. I totally agree with that point, because a 9 year manned spaceflight gab is too much. And if NASA already got a new manned spacecraft ready almost directly after the last Shuttle launch, then there was not a big problem, maybe even the cuts are then less then normal. Also, good knowledge you got there, the Dream Chaser is a repainted X-38. And you knowledge is also good by the Transhab's

2. The Falcon-9 is a good launcher, but I will see first that it is launched 10 times before I give really a very big opinion about it. Lets hope that there known now how to not have again to have only 8 engines, but full 9 engines.

3. Do you known that Axe Apollo space academy thing? Its the first big success already for XCOR, so now the Lynx MUST come in less then 3 years, because else its a slab in there face for XCOR. But things as the Axe Apollo space academy I never seen by Virgin Galactic, so that makes me suggestion that Virgin Galactic is nothing more then a show-project stronger.

2)Its still in its early days and has a lot of development left to do (Especially to get it manned rated) but so far Space-X has shown it to be a highly capable launcher. The Falcon 9 isn't meant to fly on only 8 engines, but it can still work if one of its 9 engines fails, and have a successful insertion of its primary payload.(The secondary payload for the last launch could also have been put into the right Orbit but NASA want's a large safety margin so they let it burn up) No other launcher on the market can do that.
3)As of now no XCOR Aerospace prototype capable of reaching space has even started test flights. Virgin Galactic's main contractor for building their craft, Scaled Composites has launched a spacecraft on suborbital flight. In addition their second generation spacecraft has done captive carry and glide flights and is well on tits way to a successful suborbital flight.

[Greed and Death]

No talk about the future of space, until a space law degree from Dooley's house of Juris Doctorates is worth the paper it is printed on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlK2aAMGyA

[The Corparation]

No talk about the future of space, until a space law degree from Dooley's house of Juris Doctorates is worth the paper it is printed on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlK2aAMGyA

That hurts to watch. Part of me died watching this. A bigger part died listening to it.

[Greed and Death]

No talk about the future of space, until a space law degree from Dooley's house of Juris Doctorates is worth the paper it is printed on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlK2aAMGyA

That hurts to watch. Part of me died watching this. A bigger part died listening to it.

Dont tell me your an unemployed JD, with a space law degree.

[Trippoli]

NASA has been neglected for the past few years. Considering I worked at Wallops flight facility, one of the main hubs where they launch sattelites, they sometimes hardly have the money to pay people to cut the grass on the property.

Hopefully in time another "Space Race" will spring. Many techonligies and common househould items were invented thanks to NASA and its space programs. Don't take it for granted.

Personally, I think NASA should be tacked onto the DoD budget. Considering NASA only gets a few billion dollars a year, alot less then what hey use to receive in the 60's it wouldn't really be a loss to the Department of Defense, and I think it would be best for it. Considering they already have plenty of bonding contracts with eachother.

[Priory Academy USSR]

No talk about the future of space, until a space law degree from Dooley's house of Juris Doctorates is worth the paper it is printed on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDlK2aAMGyA

What..what the fuck?

[Czechanada]

Just have everyone on earth play Mass Effect 1. That will get everyone interested in space exploration.

[Trippoli]

Just have everyone on earth play Mass Effect 1. That will get everyone interested in space exploration.

Amen.

Point is though everyone is too focused on the economic turnout they expect it to bring. It's simply innovative, and that alone is why we as humanity, not as a nation, should focus on space exploration. Technological and Economic advances would follow naturally.

The one thing that would make me die happy is to see humanity expand.

[New Albrionn]

Just have everyone on earth play Mass Effect 1. That will get everyone interested in space exploration.

I think we need something like the Systems Alliance, a vast international resource pool devoted to space exploration. Each nation could contribute as much as they are willing to spare. Since every nation has a stake and can contribute funding, the program wouldn't be dependent on the whims of a handful of powerful governments, and it can draw talent from countries that can't have their own space program. It would also increase efficiency by avoiding the duplication of effort each individual national progam has to do.

[Salandriagado]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

Average size of a human is ~ 1.5 m.

Average distance to the moon is 384400000 m.

384400000 / 1.5 = 256266666.7, or rounded down (Don't want to stick the last one into the moon) 256266666 steps to the pyramid.

The first step of the pyramid alone would require 256266666^2 = 6.6 x 10^16 humans, or almost ten million times the population of earth. It'd also cover an area of approximately 6.6 x 10^16 x 0.25 m^2 = 1.6 x 10^16 m^2, or about thirty-two times the surface area of planet earth - oceans included.

The total number of humans in the pyramid is 1/3 x 1.6 x 10^16 m^2 x 384400000 m / (0.25 m x 1.5 m) = 5.5 x 10^24 humans, which isn't just 7.8 x 10^14 times the population of planet earth, but also masses (Assuming an average of / human) 2.7 x 10^26 kg, which is 45 times the mass of planet earth.

Considering the material expenses involved, as well as further complications (Sanitary infrastructure, nutritional requirements, oxygen support, the significantly altered gravitational field around Earth and the effects this has on the Moon's orbit - we don't want to have the moon act like a bowling ball to our pyramid of pins), I'm afraid that your unique approach, although laudable, may not be as practicable as it may first appear to be.

You're not thinking laterally - why does it have to be at that gradient? Why can't you go in every ten levels? Or have alternating upside-down and normal pyramids in a big tower?