The Future of the American Space Program?

[Trotskylvania]

According to the Outer Space Treaty, which all major countries are signatory to, all celestial bodies are the common heritage of all mankind, so no one nation can claim them.

It's moot right now, but if space development ever takes off, in order to meet the terms of the Outer Space Treaty, there would have to be some sort of international agency, probably through the UN, that settled disputes and regulated space commerce.

Like the UNSC?

Hopefully less militarist and authoritarian.

[L Ron Cupboard]

The US seems to be following the same pattern as Great Britain did in the period just before 1870. We had developed a huge technological lead through innovation in steam engines and railways. Then we lost our lead in manufacturing to the US, and we lost our entrepreneurial courage to support big ideas.

[Cameroi]

maned exploration beyond the inner planets of our solar system, and ultimately beyond our solar system itself, needs a future of some kind. but it doesn't need to be based on nationalism, national competition, or national egos.

[Divair]

maned exploration beyond the inner planets of our solar system, and ultimately beyond our solar system itself, needs a future of some kind. but it doesn't need to be based on nationalism, national competition, or national egos.

For now that is the only way it'll happen. Competition between countries (right now the USA + EU, Russia, China, and to some degree India) is the only way politicians will support spending more on space.

[Cameroi]

maned exploration beyond the inner planets of our solar system, and ultimately beyond our solar system itself, needs a future of some kind. but it doesn't need to be based on nationalism, national competition, or national egos.

For now that is the only way it'll happen. Competition between countries (right now the USA + EU, Russia, China, and to some degree India) is the only way politicians will support spending more on space.

which will continue to be further and further undermined by ever more immediate needs in the everyday world at home.

[The Corparation]

No. Orion's only advantage is it has high thrust and high impulse. So, it could potentially be used for launch. But you're exploding a bunch of small, dirty, inefficient fission bombs in the atmosphere to make it happen. No way, no how.

Indeed. Orion is shitty for anything other than exploring beyond the Earth-Moon system (I know the atmosphere doesn't extend that far, but there's also EMP concerns) IMO.

Unless you're doing an Earth Lift-Off doing an Earth-Moon run with an Oroin would be a waste of an Orion. Although there were plans for a Lunar Logistics vehicle, they were conceived as interplanetary vessels and using them otherwise would be a waste. As for EMP that's really only a problem if you activate the drive close to earth. Farther out into space the EMP effects are minimal as most of the strength of a nuke's EMP is caused by it interacting with the Magnetosphere. An additional note is that the Pulse Units direct around 85% of their energy in one direction which would also reduce any EMP effects. As for contaminating the atmosphere, the main plan was to launch the ships into orbit in sections using Saturn Vs and assemble them in space.

EDIT: Fixed typo. Its in the mid 80% Range not 8% range.

[Grenartia]

Indeed. Orion is shitty for anything other than exploring beyond the Earth-Moon system (I know the atmosphere doesn't extend that far, but there's also EMP concerns) IMO.

Unless you're doing an Earth Lift-Off doing an Earth-Moon run with an Oroin would be a waste of an Orion. Although there were plans for a Lunar Logistics vehicle, they were conceived as interplanetary vessels and using them otherwise would be a waste. As for EMP that's really only a problem if you activate the drive close to earth. Farther out into space the EMP effects are minimal as most of the strength of a nuke's EMP is caused by it interacting with the Magnetosphere. An additional note is that the Pulse Units direct around 8-% of their energy in one direction which would also reduce any EMP effects. As for contaminating the atmosphere, the main plan was to launch the ships into orbit in sections using Saturn Vs and assemble them in space.

True.

[Pope Joan]

If the Americans loose their space program, then we, mighty Russia, can finally rule... *deep gasp* SPAAAAACE!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

They're wotking on it as we speak.

[The Corparation]

If the Americans loose their space program, then we, mighty Russia, can finally rule... *deep gasp* SPAAAAACE!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

They're wotking on it as we speak.

Maybe with a new lunar rocket they can beat their record for Largest Non-Nuclear explosion ever made!

[Divair]

If the Americans loose their space program, then we, mighty Russia, can finally rule... *deep gasp* SPAAAAACE!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

They're wotking on it as we speak.

The Moon is actually a Russian colony. That's why they've been investing more in their space program.

[Heavenly Peace]

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

[Conserative Morality]

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

NASA is not a for-profit organization; NASA's projects are prohibitively expensive and provide little in the way of immediate returns. It has long-term returns, but little of that returns to NASA.

Companies rarely look ahead more than a decade, and even then, there has to be profit involved.

[Divair]

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

How about no.

[Grenartia]

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

If there were, they would have done so already.

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

NASA is not a for-profit organization; NASA's projects are prohibitively expensive and provide little in the way of immediate returns. It has long-term returns, but little of that returns to NASA.

Companies rarely look ahead more than a decade, and even then, there has to be profit involved.

This. There is no direct profit from a moon mission purely for exploratory purposes (mining, that's a different story). The only way to get a profit from a lunar mission aside from mining, that I can see, involves turning the moon into a giant fucking billboard.

[Hometown Zero]

NASA is not a for-profit organization; NASA's projects are prohibitively expensive and provide little in the way of immediate returns. It has long-term returns, but little of that returns to NASA.

Companies rarely look ahead more than a decade, and even then, there has to be profit involved.

This. There is no direct profit from a moon mission purely for exploratory purposes (mining, that's a different story). The only way to get a profit from a lunar mission aside from mining, that I can see, involves turning the moon into a giant fucking billboard.

Sigh, this way of thinking will kill the whole damn human race eventually. People need to realize there's an infinite amount of things humans can benefit from with space exploration.

[Grenartia]

This. There is no direct profit from a moon mission purely for exploratory purposes (mining, that's a different story). The only way to get a profit from a lunar mission aside from mining, that I can see, involves turning the moon into a giant fucking billboard.

Sigh, this way of thinking will kill the whole damn human race eventually. People need to realize there's an infinite amount of things humans can benefit from with space exploration.

I'm well aware of this. In fact, I firmly believe that if we don't start getting our asses into space, we WILL go extinct.

[Divair]

Sigh, this way of thinking will kill the whole damn human race eventually. People need to realize there's an infinite amount of things humans can benefit from with space exploration.

I'm well aware of this. In fact, I firmly believe that if we don't start getting our asses into space, we WILL go extinct.

If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here.

[Sociobiology]

Why not privatize NASA? I'm sure there are plenty of businessmen more than willing to finance adventures into space in hope of solving Earth's resource problem.

If there were, they would have done so already.

If there was oil under X we would already be pumping it.
do you see the flaw in your logic, namely that we discover things and invent technology.

NASA is not a for-profit organization; NASA's projects are prohibitively expensive and provide little in the way of immediate returns. It has long-term returns, but little of that returns to NASA.

Companies rarely look ahead more than a decade, and even then, there has to be profit involved.

This. There is no direct profit from a moon mission purely for exploratory purposes (mining, that's a different story). The only way to get a profit from a lunar mission aside from mining, that I can see, involves turning the moon into a giant fucking billboard.

[/quote]
actually turning it into an orbital fuel plant would be helpful. but not going extinct is the ultimate profit.
hell we had a near miss (inside lunar orbit) by a city killer sized asteroid in Dec. We didn't even see coming. That's as close as you get to warning shot.

[Grenartia]

I'm well aware of this. In fact, I firmly believe that if we don't start getting our asses into space, we WILL go extinct.

If the dinosaurs had a space program, they'd still be here.

Indeed. Or at least on Mars or something, which would be habitable.

If there were, they would have done so already.

1.If there was oil under X we would already be pumping it.
do you see the flaw in your logic, namely that we discover things and invent technology.

This. There is no direct profit from a moon mission purely for exploratory purposes (mining, that's a different story). The only way to get a profit from a lunar mission aside from mining, that I can see, involves turning the moon into a giant fucking billboard.

2. actually turning it into an orbital fuel plant would be helpful. but not going extinct is the ultimate profit.
3. hell we had a near miss (inside lunar orbit) by a city killer sized asteroid in Dec. We didn't even see coming. That's as close as you get to warning shot.

1. While the principle is true, the fact is that the technology for travelling through space has not improved majorly since the Space Shuttle. And the actual fuel hasn't changed much at all, IIRC. The Saturn V first stage did burn LOX and Kerosene, but the second and third stages used LOX and LH. Robotics has advanced, but again, intelligent robots isn't really necessary on the moon (its not unreasonable to think that a mining robot could be piloted from Earth). Hell, even NEO mining isn't entirely unreasonable.

2. True.

3. Indeed.

[Divair]

Indeed. Or at least on Mars or something, which would be habitable.

I meant "here" as in existing

[Grenartia]

Indeed. Or at least on Mars or something, which would be habitable.

I meant "here" as in existing

True. Hell, for all we know, a bunch of velociraptors could've sent a generation ship to another system.

[Divair]

True. Hell, for all we know, a bunch of velociraptors could've sent a generation ship to another system.

Or not

[Czechanada]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

[Supermarionation]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

Human bodies are too squishy, you'd get up a few hundred meters and the lowest tier would start to liquify. Scooped-out human skulls have much better strength-to-weight ratio, we should use them instead.

[Divair]

We have seven billion humans on Earth. Let's just build a human pyramid to the moon.

Human bodies are too squishy, you'd get up a few hundred meters and the lowest tier would start to liquify. Scooped-out human skulls have much better strength-to-weight ratio, we should use them instead.

Skull pile our way into space?