Scottish Independance. Great Idea or No Go?

[Forsakia]

Were an independent Scotland to join the Schengen Area, then yes, this might lead to a border of some sort being established. But as far as I'm aware, the Common Travel Area opt-out would apply to both post-UK parts of the country, and thus entry to the EU for Scotland would not require enforced entry to the Schengen Area also.

That's up for debate, given there seems to be some confusion on whether Scotland would retain EU membership or not after separating from the UK.

Having to renegotiate may mean having to lose some opt-outs the UK has, or it may not. No one seems to be sure. Though as far as I was aware tradition was a new state would have to reapply for any organization the state it seceded from was a part of, it would not inherit it outright.

I think you're right in that it wouldn't be considered as two equal post-uk parts, but a smaller UK and a new country of Scotland that'd have to re-apply and wouldn't have the existing UK arrangements.

[Alimprad]

well if you want to step down to a 2nd world country thats fine by me!

Who said anything about 2nd world? Have a little think about how often scandinavian countries feature in the security council of the UN, or how often the world bows and listens to what they have to say on matters that don't concern them. Then look at how often they're targeted by foreign terrorism. Then look at their standard of life.

Then come back to me.

It's quite possible to be a successful country with a high quality of life without requiring you wave your ageing imperial appendage at the rest of the world three times a year.

ive had a look, and ive also had a look at which country has more infleunce on the rest of the world and is more powerful. think before you post.

[Alimprad]

I find the statement that scots are somehow fundamentally different to the rest of the british to be racist and offensive to me as a welshman and a briton, and as a european in favor of a USE. For one, it's simply untrue. For another, even if it were true, the implication that you can't get along with and live alongside people of a different culture without segregating yourselves should cause every civilized person to cringe.
The Scottish Seperatist movement is one based in anglophobia and a power mad scottish politician with a flair for seeming like he knows what he's talking about providing you don't look to hard.

And gay people want to get married to piss off the catholics? Or perhaps feminism has its base in hating men?
There was me thinking it was about equality.

Shocking as it may seem, the SNP don't hate the English, they hate the way that they perceive Scotland's interests aren't served by Westminster at all. To argue that its driven by hating the English would be to assume that England is the focus of the SNP - not something I've ever taken from a conversation with a member. Honestly, its Scotland, Scotland, Scotland. You can't shut them up about Scotland. It's in the acronym.

i agree with the first paragraph, r u being sarcastic in the second?

[Tagmatium]

And gay people want to get married to piss off the catholics? Or perhaps feminism has its base in hating men?
There was me thinking it was about equality.

Shocking as it may seem, the SNP don't hate the English, they hate the way that they perceive Scotland's interests aren't served by Westminster at all. To argue that its driven by hating the English would be to assume that England is the focus of the SNP - not something I've ever taken from a conversation with a member. Honestly, its Scotland, Scotland, Scotland. You can't shut them up about Scotland. It's in the acronym.

i agree with the first paragraph, r u being sarcastic in the second?

They don't hate the English.

A minority of them might, but you get crazies everywhere.

[Alimprad]

That's up for debate, given there seems to be some confusion on whether Scotland would retain EU membership or not after separating from the UK.

Having to renegotiate may mean having to lose some opt-outs the UK has, or it may not. No one seems to be sure. Though as far as I was aware tradition was a new state would have to reapply for any organization the state it seceded from was a part of, it would not inherit it outright.

There is confusion on that issue, yes, but either way it is my understanding that being a member of the Schengen area is not a requirement of EU accession per se, but is rather a matter negotiated by each prospective new nation on an individual basis. Either way, it's hard to imagine a future where someone could fly from Edinburgh to Paris with no problems but would need a passport to nip to Leeds and back.

Woe betide Berwick, were that the case.

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

[Tagmatium]

There is confusion on that issue, yes, but either way it is my understanding that being a member of the Schengen area is not a requirement of EU accession per se, but is rather a matter negotiated by each prospective new nation on an individual basis. Either way, it's hard to imagine a future where someone could fly from Edinburgh to Paris with no problems but would need a passport to nip to Leeds and back.

Woe betide Berwick, were that the case.

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

So the inspiration for this post was a Happy Meal you had during the Olympics?

[Maurepas]

Does it really matter? It would certainly have to be an EU member, and would probably be in the exact same position it is in now. Only this time the UK isn't going to keep footing the government bills.

[Polar Islandstates]

ive had a look, and ive also had a look at which country has more infleunce on the rest of the world and is more powerful. think before you post.

Would you rate influence on the world stage over quality of life? Because I know I wouldn't. If you would, then I guess we're just not going to agree on this. I did think before I posted, I provided justification for my point of view. You providing justification for yours doesn't render mine invalid.

i agree with the first paragraph, r u being sarcastic in the second?

No, I was not. I was being genuine. My conversations with elected members of the SNP (whether MP, MSP, or MEP) have all been about Scotland. Not about hating England. You do get crazies in any movement but I'd argue that just as many English hate the Scottish as vice versa. To claim an entire political part that formed in the 30s has been motivated by hatred is bordering on patronising, and that was the part my second paragraph was answering.

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

What is this I don't even...?
In response to the emphasised passage, I have heard of team work. This whole issue has gained momentum in recent years because more and more the Scots feel like they're not getting a fair deal from the UK. In otherwords, there isn't any team work at the moment. There are, as far as I'm concerned, very strong arguments for saying that Scotland currently gives more to Westminster than it gets in return, and that Westminster isn't looking out for Scotland's future once the oil runs out - an absolute necessity. I agree, it would be a shame to see Scotland leave the Union, but I really can't blame them for wanting out as things stand.

[Alimprad]

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

So the inspiration for this post was a Happy Meal you had during the Olympics?

to put it simply yes

[Camelza]

There is confusion on that issue, yes, but either way it is my understanding that being a member of the Schengen area is not a requirement of EU accession per se, but is rather a matter negotiated by each prospective new nation on an individual basis. Either way, it's hard to imagine a future where someone could fly from Edinburgh to Paris with no problems but would need a passport to nip to Leeds and back.

Woe betide Berwick, were that the case.

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

Eh, that's a rather childish romantic reason to support the union, but to be honest I'd too wouldn't like Britain to be split in two, I hate islands with borders.
...also, Scotland is viewed as another country, but in the meantime it's also viewed as British, that's the magic of the UK.

[The Franko-Gothic Empire]

As much as I love my country, I beleive it will be bad to leave the Union.

[Kouralia]

look ive noticed alot of the people im replying to r u, so im going to get it over with now.
1 day i was in mcdonalds, and i happend to see one of the childrens puzzles, and because it was the olympics, it was a maze where you had to help mandeville go around britian to get back to london, and a bit of the maze went to northern island, wich was almost unrecognisable because the rest of island had been cut off. u may have been talking about freedom and its scottish peoples choice, well have u ever heard of a thing called team work, i mean what would it really gain u, leaving britian? i don't want to have to walk past a childrens maze of britian in a few years time with no scotland on it, i dont want the next generation to see scotland as "another country" like france or germany, i would much rather be a part of the UNITED nations with scotland rather than apart of the nations.

So the inspiration for this post was a Happy Meal you had during the Olympics?

You say that like there's anything wrong with it...

[Souseiseki]

So the inspiration for this post was a Happy Meal you had during the Olympics?

You say that like there's anything wrong with it...

i'm kinda behind and i need to go back a few pages and i hate to do this to your post but anytime a unionist comes in with the standard crap about about they're all logical and rational and the nationalists are totally just thatmoviewhichshallnotbenamed lovers running on emotions i will have to point to your post

Eh, that's a rather childish romantic reason to support the union, but to be honest I'd too wouldn't like Britain to be split in two, I hate islands with borders.

irelaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!!! *shakes fist*

[Kouralia]

You say that like there's anything wrong with it...

i'm kinda behind and i need to go back a few pages and i hate to do this to your post but anytime a unionist comes in with the standard crap about about they're all logical and rational and the nationalists are totally just thatmoviewhichshallnotbenamed lovers running on emotions i will have to point to your post

Eh, that's a rather childish romantic reason to support the union, but to be honest I'd too wouldn't like Britain to be split in two, I hate islands with borders.

irelaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand!!! *shakes fist*

I never made that post. I am Kouralia. Not Camelza.

[Rio Cana]

Eh, that's a rather childish romantic reason to support the union, but to be honest I'd too wouldn't like Britain to be split in two, I hate islands with borders.
...also, Scotland is viewed as another country, but in the meantime it's also viewed as British, that's the magic of the UK.

Islands with borders. They are not complaining.

[Larban]

Looks like Alex Salmond uses NationStates! The SNP changed the wording of the indyref question...to my poll question!¡!

[Tagmatium]

Looks like Alex Salmond uses NationStates! The SNP changed the wording of the indyref question...to my poll question!¡!

I never understood this, to be honest.

What is the reasoning behind the changes to the question?

[Souseiseki]

Looks like Alex Salmond uses NationStates! The SNP changed the wording of the indyref question...to my poll question!¡!

I never understood this, to be honest.

What is the reasoning behind the changes to the question?

the wording of a question can be important (see: "temporarily banks into government ownership" vs "nationalize banks" poll results) but this wasn't really one of those times so i guess people aren't happy unless the question is biased against and if we can change the wording to make it give a better result for the status quo then that means the question is totally biased?

[Tagmatium]

I never understood this, to be honest.

What is the reasoning behind the changes to the question?

the wording of a question can be important (see: "temporarily banks into government ownership" vs "nationalize banks" poll results) but this wasn't really one of those times so i guess people aren't happy unless the question is biased against and if we can change the wording to make it give a better result for the status quo then that means the question is totally biased?

Is "Do you think Scotland should become an Independent Country?" biased against a "yes" vote for independence?

I mean, to me, it seems pretty crystal clear.

But then the last one did, too, so...

[Alimprad]

Eh, that's a rather childish romantic reason to support the union, but to be honest I'd too wouldn't like Britain to be split in two, I hate islands with borders.
...also, Scotland is viewed as another country, but in the meantime it's also viewed as British, that's the magic of the UK.

Islands with borders. They are not complaining.

He said he hated islands with borders, which i agree with him on, not that there aren't any or that they're all doing badly.

[Salven]

Pretty sure Haiti and the Dominican Republic have had some problems.

[Souseiseki]

Pretty sure Haiti and the Dominican Republic have had some problems.

and lest we forget that east timor, uh, well, kinda a bit of genocide

[Holy Patrician States]

What about Wales?

[Mandicoria]

Depends what the majority of its population wants.

[Machtergreifung]

As a Scot, I don't really know. I think, however, we have to at least try, so that if we fall flat on our faces, we can comfort ourselves in the knowledge that we made an attempt at it.