Scottish Independance. Great Idea or No Go?

[The UK in Exile]

its more keeping immigrants out. Though of course, heathrow is the 3rd largest airport in the world, so actually, there aren't that many more ways to emmigrate to Scotland than through England.

In my view that's a whole other debate, given that I probably disagree with most common platforms on immigration.

regardless of your views they are likely far better served when the country you live in and the country it borders have a common policy on borders.

So in reality Scotland's freedom from Westminster to set its own borders is.... the freedom to ask Westminster how the borders should be set.

[South Asia Minor]

In my view that's a whole other debate, given that I probably disagree with most common platforms on immigration.

regardless of your views they are likely far better served when the country you live in and the country it borders have a common policy on borders.

So in reality Scotland's freedom from Westminster to set its own borders is.... the freedom to ask Westminster how the borders should be set.

Fair enough.

[Larban]

I also think that it is highly unusual if not downright wrong that we could as a people turn our backs on the Union after all the hardships we have been through together. Scots fought alongside the English, Welsh and Irish in both World Wars, and I'm hesitant to say under the same flag because I brought that up in another thread, but we fought for the same cause and part of the same country. Blood was shed. How could we turn our backs on a mutual friendship like that just because some lunatic decides to suggest the idea?

[South Asia Minor]

I also think that it is highly unusual if not downright wrong that we could as a people turn our backs on the Union after all the hardships we have been through together. Scots fought alongside the English, Welsh and Irish in both World Wars, and I'm hesitant to say under the same flag because I brought that up in another thread, but we fought for the same cause and part of the same country. Blood was shed. How could we turn our backs on a mutual friendship like that just because some lunatic decides to suggest the idea?

So... we should all be Americans or French, too?

[Larban]

Whats that supposed to mean? Yes we fought alongside the Allies but we were not serving in the same country as them as we were with the rest of the UK.

[South Asia Minor]

Whats that supposed to mean? Yes we fought alongside the Allies but we were not serving in the same country as them as we were with the rest of the UK.

Well it's the same idea. The Scots have fought against the English just as the Americans and the French have, and far more often in the case of the Americans.
They've also fought alongside them and, for the most part, for the exact same causes as when they fought with the French and the Americans.

The only difference is that the French and the Americans aren't governed by a parliament elected by London and the home counties.

[Olivaero]

Whats that supposed to mean? Yes we fought alongside the Allies but we were not serving in the same country as them as we were with the rest of the UK.

Well it's the same idea. The Scots have fought against the English just as the Americans and the French have, and far more often in the case of the Americans.
They've also fought alongside them and, for the most part, for the exact same causes as when they fought with the French and the Americans.

The only difference is that the French and the Americans aren't governed by a parliament elected by London and the home counties.

"elected by London and the Home counties"? What does that mean? In a Democracy the areas with the highest population are always going to have the most sway, It'll be the same in an Independent Scotland between the highlands and the lowlands.

[South Asia Minor]

Well it's the same idea. The Scots have fought against the English just as the Americans and the French have, and far more often in the case of the Americans.
They've also fought alongside them and, for the most part, for the exact same causes as when they fought with the French and the Americans.

The only difference is that the French and the Americans aren't governed by a parliament elected by London and the home counties.

"elected by London and the Home counties"? What does that mean? In a Democracy the areas with the highest population are always going to have the most sway, It'll be the same in an Independent Scotland between the highlands and the lowlands.

Yes, people who are Scottish.

[Olivaero]

"elected by London and the Home counties"? What does that mean? In a Democracy the areas with the highest population are always going to have the most sway, It'll be the same in an Independent Scotland between the highlands and the lowlands.

Yes, people who are Scottish.

Why does that make the slightest bit of difference?

[South Asia Minor]

Yes, people who are Scottish.

Why does that make the slightest bit of difference?

...
Really? Have I not made my point clear in my last ten posts?

The UK parliament, which has power over every tosser in the UK, has a composition invariably determined by the English.
The every single Scot could vote for Labour, and most of the time they do, and they'll still most likely have a Tory government.

Were Scotland independent, the political landscape of the last fifty fecking years in the country (read: Thatcher) would be ridiculously different.

[Olivaero]

Why does that make the slightest bit of difference?

...
Really? Have I not made my point clear in my last ten posts?

The UK parliament, which has power over every tosser in the UK, has a composition invariably determined by the English.
The every single Scot could vote for Labour, and most of the time they do, and they'll still most likely have a Tory government.

Were Scotland independent, the political landscape of the last fifty fecking years in the country (read: Thatcher) would be ridiculously different.

Every single Person in my home town of Doncaster could vote for Labour and there'd still be a Tory government. Oh, but Doncaster doesn't have a nice medieval kingdom to base it's legitimacy on so no one gives a fuck do they?

[South Asia Minor]

...
Really? Have I not made my point clear in my last ten posts?

The UK parliament, which has power over every tosser in the UK, has a composition invariably determined by the English.
The every single Scot could vote for Labour, and most of the time they do, and they'll still most likely have a Tory government.

Were Scotland independent, the political landscape of the last fifty fecking years in the country (read: Thatcher) would be ridiculously different.

Every single Person in my home town of Doncaster could vote for Labour and there'd still be a Tory government. Oh, but Doncaster doesn't have a nice medieval kingdom to base it's legitimacy on so no one gives a fuck do they?

Precisely. Nor are you an entirely different country that has made such a case so far that it, at the very least, has a devolved parliament. If your argument is Scotland can't be independent because it has similar political views to Doncaster then I'm afraid I can't offer you any sympathy.

[Olivaero]

Every single Person in my home town of Doncaster could vote for Labour and there'd still be a Tory government. Oh, but Doncaster doesn't have a nice medieval kingdom to base it's legitimacy on so no one gives a fuck do they?

Precisely. Nor are you an entirely different country that has made such a case so far that it, at the very least, has a devolved parliament. If your argument is Scotland can't be independent because it has similar political views to Doncaster then I'm afraid I can't offer you any sympathy.

Really? The fact that 300+ years ago there was a country called Scotland there should be one now? Perhaps the Papal States should also get all it's Land back? How about the Two Sicilies? The Mughal Empire? Texas? Hey why draw the Line at 300 years maybe The Burgundian's should get back all the land France stole off them? I Don't want my Home town to go independent because I believe in Democracy and Democracy is first and foremost an exercise in compromise.

[Forster Keys]

Why does that make the slightest bit of difference?

...
Really? Have I not made my point clear in my last ten posts?

The UK parliament, which has power over every tosser in the UK, has a composition invariably determined by the English.
The every single Scot could vote for Labour, and most of the time they do, and they'll still most likely have a Tory government.

Were Scotland independent, the political landscape of the last fifty fecking years in the country (read: Thatcher) would be ridiculously different.

Why is Scotland so leftist?

[South Asia Minor]

Precisely. Nor are you an entirely different country that has made such a case so far that it, at the very least, has a devolved parliament. If your argument is Scotland can't be independent because it has similar political views to Doncaster then I'm afraid I can't offer you any sympathy.

:eyebrow: Really? The fact that 300+ years ago there was a country called Scotland there should be one now? Perhaps the Papal States should also get all it's Land back? How about the Two Sicilies? The Mughal Empire? Texas? Hey why draw the Line at 300 years maybe The Burgundian's should get back all the land France stole off them? I Don't want my Home town to go independent because I believe in Democracy and Democracy is first and foremost an exerciser in compromise.

The fact that right now there's a country called Scotland. It's right there sitting on top of Northumberland. There's a border with signs and everything, it's pretty neat.
They're not looking to grab or conquer any land, like all your examples of long since defunct states seem to be implying. Scotland isn't even a long since defunct state, There are Scottish people, there is a Scottish government, there is a Scottish nation right here, right now.

Scotland is a "constituent country" of the United Kingdom, and at the moment a lot of them would rather just be "Scotland".

...
Really? Have I not made my point clear in my last ten posts?

The UK parliament, which has power over every tosser in the UK, has a composition invariably determined by the English.
The every single Scot could vote for Labour, and most of the time they do, and they'll still most likely have a Tory government.

Were Scotland independent, the political landscape of the last fifty fecking years in the country (read: Thatcher) would be ridiculously different.

Why is Scotland so leftist?

No idea. It seems to be a thing with Celtic-ish nations.
I say Celtic-ish because they're probably all German-Norman-Vikings. But they say they're Celts and they tend to be in trade unions.

[Rudsambith]

[Forster Keys]

Really? The fact that 300+ years ago there was a country called Scotland there should be one now? Perhaps the Papal States should also get all it's Land back? How about the Two Sicilies? The Mughal Empire? Texas? Hey why draw the Line at 300 years maybe The Burgundian's should get back all the land France stole off them? I Don't want my Home town to go independent because I believe in Democracy and Democracy is first and foremost an exerciser in compromise.

The fact that right now there's a country called Scotland. It's right there sitting on top of Northumberland. There's a border with signs and everything, it's pretty neat.
They're not looking to grab or conquer any land, like all your examples of long since defunct states seem to be implying. Scotland isn't even a long since defunct state, There are Scottish people, there is a Scottish government, there is a Scottish nation right here, right now.

Scotland is a "constituent country" of the United Kingdom, and at the moment a lot of them would rather just be "Scotland".

Why is Scotland so leftist?

No idea. It seems to be a thing with Celtic-ish nations.
I say Celtic-ish because they're probably all German-Norman-Vikings. But they say they're Celts and they tend to be in trade unions.

Ireland is pretty conservative I thought? Ie. the Fianna Fail, Fine Gael dichotomy.

[South Asia Minor]

The fact that right now there's a country called Scotland. It's right there sitting on top of Northumberland. There's a border with signs and everything, it's pretty neat.
They're not looking to grab or conquer any land, like all your examples of long since defunct states seem to be implying. Scotland isn't even a long since defunct state, There are Scottish people, there is a Scottish government, there is a Scottish nation right here, right now.

Scotland is a "constituent country" of the United Kingdom, and at the moment a lot of them would rather just be "Scotland".


No idea. It seems to be a thing with Celtic-ish nations.
I say Celtic-ish because they're probably all German-Norman-Vikings. But they say they're Celts and they tend to be in trade unions.

Ireland is pretty conservative I thought? Ie. the Fianna Fail, Fine Gael dichotomy.

It was a country fought for by Socialists and won by tossers. For lack of a better word.
The Free State really clouded the economic debate. It was more just killing each other over who liked De Valera and who liked Collins. Those are the grounds on which people tend to support those parties nowadays, at least the older people. The Labour Party and Sinn Fein, both Socialist or Social Democratic parties, are gaining ground now that the memory of the Free State is fading and people are sobering up and realising the economy got fucked.

But I'm biased.

[Imperial--japan]

What is this talk of independence? Off to the gallowas with ye!

[Condunum]

Oh look, it's this thread...
How many times is it now?

[Mintu]

I can see why'd they want independence, but I don't think it would be beneficial for Scotland.

[SaorAlba]

I also think that it is highly unusual if not downright wrong that we could as a people turn our backs on the Union after all the hardships we have been through together. Scots fought alongside the English, Welsh and Irish in both World Wars, and I'm hesitant to say under the same flag because I brought that up in another thread, but we fought for the same cause and part of the same country. Blood was shed. How could we turn our backs on a mutual friendship like that just because some lunatic decides to suggest the idea?

So is the soviet union better together???????

They also fought the Nazi's, actually they did the vast majority of the fighting & dying! that "union" has now gone new nations like the Ukraine seem to be doing just fine.


Wars fought over 60 years ago are not a good enough reason to save your precious union.

If we do go independent then the Scottish goverment will decide which wars we do or most likley don't get involved in! or do you think Iraq & Afganistan are good reasons to be "bittertogether"!!

[Greed and Death]

Haggis, kilts, alcohol what more does Scotland need ?

[Free Detroit]

"It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference!"

[Greed and Death]

"It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference!"

Declare Independence or start raping sheep like Wales.