Not allow Atheists to graduate from HS? GOP says yes!

[Bleckonia]

It's abhorrent.

Loyalty oaths, especially ones that demand religious loyalty, should not be imposed on anyone by law.

High school is not voluntary, even if graduation is, I wouldn't stand for it. And so hope the bill is sunk.

I'm an Arizonan, and I'm pretty sure it will be. There are enough moderate Republicans to vote against it.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

No. It can however make it illegal to not believe in God according to the Constitution.

Then that's establishing a religion. That's illegal.

No religion is not establishing a religion.

[Mavorpen]

Religion not lack thereof.

Free excersise of religion.

You do know that religion=/=theism, right?

Again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God. If you cannot do so, you do not have rights.

[Wisconsin9]

Which according to you would include atheists, since you claim that we as a group were not directly given rights, forget the fact that the Fourteenth Amendment means that we're all US citizens and are granted the right to due process.

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

CITIZENS have rights. Not specifically THEISTS, not specifically ATHEISTS, CITIZENS. If you're going to advocate stripping my legal status as a human being, then at the very least do so with a halfway legitimate argument.

[Great Nepal]

Again, where?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Do you see anything protecting Atheists in there?

Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Therefore, everyone must always keep talking.
Everyone must always be reporting a news.
Everyone must always assemble.
Everyone must always petition government.
Everyone must have grievance of every government.

*nods*

[Oneracon]

Which according to you would include atheists, since you claim that we as a group were not directly given rights, forget the fact that the Fourteenth Amendment means that we're all US citizens and are granted the right to due process.

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

See James J. Kaufman, v. Gary R. McCaughtry, et al., United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit No. 04-1914

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Religion not lack thereof.

Free excersise of religion.

You do know that religion=/=theism, right?

Again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God. If you cannot do so, you do not have rights.

Religion is Theism.

It protects the right to exercise religion, thus to believe in God. Whilst it mentions nothing of lack thereof so you have no rights according to the Constitution.

[Immoren]

Religion is Theism.

Try again.

[New Chalcedon]

It's abhorrent.

Loyalty oaths, especially ones that demand religious loyalty, should not be imposed on anyone by law.

High school is not voluntary, even if graduation is, I wouldn't stand for it. And so hope the bill is sunk.

I'm an Arizonan, and I'm pretty sure it will be. There are enough moderate Republicans to vote against it.

You just used three words that should never be in the same sentence: "Arizona", "moderate" and "Republican".

There are moderate people from Arizona.
There are moderate Republicans.
There are Arizona Republicans.

There are not - at least not in office - moderate Arizona Republicans, afaik.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Religion is Theism.

Try again.

The majority are still Theist. And it still does not give rights to Atheists.

[Mavorpen]

Religion is Theism..

No.

Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists

Religion is an organized collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

Unless you want to argue that Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism aren't religions, you're wrong.

So again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God.

[Wisconsin9]

Try again.

The majority are still Theist. And it still does not give rights to Atheists.

Please at least try to come up with a response to my point about citizenship and rights.

[United States of Raptors]

Which according to you would include atheists, since you claim that we as a group were not directly given rights, forget the fact that the Fourteenth Amendment means that we're all US citizens and are granted the right to due process.

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

Wrong. The text states that you cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion, not that you cannot prohibit belief in God.


I can play this game too. Show me where it states that you have the right to believe in a God.

Religion not lack thereof.

Free excersise of religion.

The first ammendment allows the lack of religion.

Need me to quote the first ammendment word for word here?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I believe that not believing in a religion falls under freedom of speech.

[Meryuma]

As an atheist, I'm actually more worried about the idea of forcing people to take the Oath of Enlistment before they can graduate.

Exactly.

People are glossing over the scary part and instead scaring themselves silly with a pretty harmless/meaningless part.

[The UK in Exile]

You do know that religion=/=theism, right?

Again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God. If you cannot do so, you do not have rights.

Religion is Theism.

It protects the right to exercise religion, thus to believe in God. Whilst it mentions nothing of lack thereof so you have no rights according to the Constitution.

religion is a set of rituals that its perfectly possible to exercise without believing in a god.

[Individuality-ness]

Which according to you would include atheists, since you claim that we as a group were not directly given rights, forget the fact that the Fourteenth Amendment means that we're all US citizens and are granted the right to due process.

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

Yes. We. Fucking. Do. Have. Rights. In. The. Constitution.

NOWHERE in the Fourteenth Amendment does it say anything about religious qualifications for citizenship - and nowhere in naturalization law does it say that immigrants have to pass a religious test to become a citizen.

And debunk your idea that the US is a Christian nation once and for all, we have the Treaty of Tripoli, which states "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Religion is Theism..

No.

Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists

Religion is an organized collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

Unless you want to argue that Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism aren't religions, you're wrong.

So again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God.

Hinduism believes in many Gods. Buddhism is a lifestyle not a religion. And I don't even know what Jainism is.

By the right to exercise religion. Most religions are Theist so thus it gives that right.

[Mavorpen]

Hinduism believes in many Gods.

No.

Buddhism is a lifestyle not a religion.

No.

By the right to exercise religion. Most religions are Theist so thus it gives that right.

So it doesn't give you the right to believe in God?

[The UK in Exile]

No.





Unless you want to argue that Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism aren't religions, you're wrong.

So again, show me where it states that you have the right to believe in God.

Hinduism believes in many Gods. Buddhism is a lifestyle not a religion. And I don't even know what Jainism is.

By the right to exercise religion. Most religions are Theist so thus it gives that right.

no, no, no. you can practice religions, you can't believe in them.

its fun when people twist what words mean isn't it?

[House Korlov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5mmFPyDK_8

Yes we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
We will rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

(Chorus)
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;
While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

We are springing to the call of our brothers gone before,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill our vacant ranks with a million freemen more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

Chorus

We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although they may be poor, not a man shall be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

This is basically my response. Why do I slowly but surely have a gradually creeping idea that we may have to sort out the issue of "union" again, with blood and steel? And will we have to die to make men free again?

[Individuality-ness]

Then that's establishing a religion. That's illegal.

No religion is not establishing a religion.

We're a SECULAR nation. If you're making it illegal to NOT believe in your magical sky faerie, that's impeding on my right to NOT believe in said sky faerie, hence striping me of my rights, hence illegal.

[New Chalcedon]

Which according to you would include atheists, since you claim that we as a group were not directly given rights, forget the fact that the Fourteenth Amendment means that we're all US citizens and are granted the right to due process.

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I see the word "all" in there, and no exclusion of atheists.

All atheists who are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States are just as covered by this as anyone else.

[United States of Raptors]

Being Atheist falls under freedom of religion and freedom of speech, do the math here guys.

[Kamchastkia]

Does not mean Atheists have rights in the Constitution.

CITIZENS have rights. Not specifically THEISTS, not specifically ATHEISTS, CITIZENS. If you're going to advocate stripping my legal status as a human being, then at the very least do so with a halfway legitimate argument.

I'm going to have to disagree with you, people have rights, whether you're a citizen or not you're protected by the Bill of Rights.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Hinduism believes in many Gods.

No.

Buddhism is a lifestyle not a religion.

No.

By the right to exercise religion. Most religions are Theist so thus it gives that right.

So it doesn't give you the right to believe in God?

There are Hindu Atheists. That does not mean the religion does not believe in God.

If it does not have a God it is not a religion.

Yes it does. Does not give you the right to not believe in God.