EU Referendum in UK. Should Britain stay in the EU?

[Afalia]

The idea that we 'renegotiate' is preposterous. It would require the agreement of every members state and would take years of compromise. What we should be doing is invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, pulling out, and then agreeing a new relationship that is to our liking. It will be quicker, easier and a damn sight less expensive.

Except if we ever went back in we'd have to adopt the euro.

[Laerod]

The idea that we 'renegotiate' is preposterous. It would require the agreement of every members state and would take years of compromise. What we should be doing is invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, pulling out, and then agreeing a new relationship that is to our liking. It will be quicker, easier and a damn sight less expensive.

Except if we ever went back in we'd have to adopt the euro.

Also no rebate. You'd probably have no opt outs of everything else you get to opt out of either.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The idea that we 'renegotiate' is preposterous. It would require the agreement of every members state and would take years of compromise. What we should be doing is invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, pulling out, and then agreeing a new relationship that is to our liking. It will be quicker, easier and a damn sight less expensive.

I don't think you understand how stupid an idea that actually is.

[Eylandia]

I've always supported the idea of the UK in the EU, although I readily accept that the EU has its fundamental flaws as it stands. However, it makes far more sense to lobby for change within the EU, working with natural allies on some of our concerns with how the EU currently functions such as the Netherlands, than to just throw a strop and leave. Leaving achieves nothing and would damage the UK economy detrimentally.

That said, I'm incredibly skeptical as to whether the Referendum will even happen. Cameron will go into negotiations with an uncompromising approach. For those negotiations to work you need to compromise, thats the facts of diplomacy, and he won't. I'd also say that it wouldn't be in Cameron's interests to 'sort out the EU from the inside' as there's many Conservatives who just want to leave outright for ideological reasons and the major issue of the Conservatives hemorrhaging votes to UKIP, who equally want to leave outright for ideological reasons. I don't honestly think the negotiations are a serious effort from Cameron, he expects them to fail. However, even if they fail the Referendum relies on the Conservatives forming a majority government at the next election - if they couldn't do it while in opposition they certainly won't do it after 5 years of unpopular cuts (whilst losing those voters who would be swayed by the promise of a referendum to UKIP at any rate and offering nothing extra to swing voters for whom Europe features very low down the priority list).

[Ostroeuropa]

while Europe is not an issue that particularly excites voters (even UKIP voters are actually driven more by things like immigration and the economy), I thought a temporary boost from Cameron looking on top of things and the exceptionally good press coverage of the last few days was likely. In the event Cameron’s own ratings have indeed improved – YouGov repeated their leader attributes question yesterday and Cameron got his best ratings since last April, with particular increases in strength and being good in a crisis. However these don’t appear to have translated into voting intention. Normal caveats apply, it is just one poll and others may paint a different picture, but so far the big gamechanging speech doesn’t appear to have changed public opinion much.
YouGov’s poll also asked voting intention in a referendum – the figures remain extremely close, 40% would vote to leave, 38% would vote to stay, confirming again the drastic narrowing in the lead of those wanting to leave since last year. Populus also had a poll out this morning in today’s Times which found almost identical figures – 40% saying leave, 37% saying stay.

It's making cameron more popular. Noone attributes his actions to his party apparently.
Also, we may not leave after all

[Great Nepal]

the referendum is dependent on the outcome of the negotations. regardless of if he said he will campaign to leave EU if repatriation wasn't achieved (he didn't).

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

[Laerod]

the referendum is dependent on the outcome of the negotations. regardless of if he said he will campaign to leave EU if repatriation wasn't achieved (he didn't).

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

Not in this world.

[Ostroeuropa]

the referendum is dependent on the outcome of the negotations. regardless of if he said he will campaign to leave EU if repatriation wasn't achieved (he didn't).

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

He wont win.
It's being discussed whether the conservatives even CAN obtain a majority anymore.

[Eylandia]

the referendum is dependent on the outcome of the negotations. regardless of if he said he will campaign to leave EU if repatriation wasn't achieved (he didn't).

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

The referendum is unlikely to happen. He not only needs to win the next election but needs a healthy majority. That is incredibly unlikely - incumbents always lose votes (added to the fact that the right is split for the first time in the UK for generations) and we're going through one of the most unpopular public spending cut sprees ever. I highly doubt he'll be back as PM in 2015, so no referendum.

[Great Nepal]

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

He wont win.
It's being discussed whether the conservatives even CAN obtain a majority anymore.

Well, that depends on if world gets out of depression before next election. If that happens, Cameron can win simply by claiming he brought UK out of recession Labours put them under.

[Ostroeuropa]

Conservatives 32
Labour 41
Liberal Democrats 11
UKIP 9

Remember, this is supposed to be a good week for the tories.

Also, relevent.

Referendums are popular, but most people don’t care much about Europe. Polls consistently show that people support the idea of a referendum on Europe, but they also show people would like a referendum on almost any subject you care to ask about. This is because a poll question asking “Should there be a referendum on X” is the equivalent of asking “should you be allowed a say on this, or should politicans decide it for you.” Hence polls showing people approve of the referendum don’t necessarily show that people think it is an important issue and are crying out for a referendum on the subject. Asked about what the most issues facing the country are, Europe comes low down the list. Asked what the important issues facing people themselves and their families, it is even lower down.

[Ostroeuropa]

He wont win.
It's being discussed whether the conservatives even CAN obtain a majority anymore.

Well, that depends on if world gets out of depression before next election. If that happens, Cameron can win simply by claiming he brought UK out of recession Labours put them under.

This simply isn't true.
Conservatives can no longer win an election in the UK. Labour just lost one. It's become nigh on impossible for a conservative to win on their own merits, the core labour voters have to actively decide to abandon the party and not vote this time round like they did in the last election.
THIS election, the core labour vote is going to be out and in force, since Labour isn't in government to fuck them over.
The core labour vote is about the same size as the conservatives vote when they are doing very well with independents.
I expect this will lead to a slow shift to the left, at which point the game is back on.
You can tell this by the Labour parties drifting leftward support of major candidates. In the blair/brown era, the idea of supporting someone who actively ran as the most left wing candidate who actually had a shot of winning would be seen as weird.

[The UK in Exile]

the referendum is dependent on the outcome of the negotations. regardless of if he said he will campaign to leave EU if repatriation wasn't achieved (he didn't).

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

point out where cameron promised that.

[Great Nepal]

No, referendum is guaranteed provided he wins next elections.
Assuming, repatriation is not achieved he will campaign to leave EU and when people vote for this (which it looks like they will), UK will leave. No sensible person wants that hence repatriation will happen provided Cameron wins next election.

point out where cameron promised that.

"Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election."

8.45am GMT: And when the referendum comes let me say now that if we can negotiate such an arrangement, I will campaign for it with all my heart and soul. Clearly implies if he cant, he will campaign against remaining in UK.

[Ostroeuropa]

point out where cameron promised that.

"Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election."

8.45am GMT: And when the referendum comes let me say now that if we can negotiate such an arrangement, I will campaign for it with all my heart and soul. Clearly implies if he cant, he will campaign against remaining in UK.

I can't resist jumping at your mistake here to invite you all to imagine the eurosceptics actively campaigning that they leave the EU...by emmigrating

[Laerod]

point out where cameron promised that.

"Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election."

8.45am GMT: And when the referendum comes let me say now that if we can negotiate such an arrangement, I will campaign for it with all my heart and soul. Clearly implies if he cant, he will campaign against remaining in UK.

Not sure you understand the difference between "imply" and "promise"...

[Great Nepal]

"Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election."

8.45am GMT: And when the referendum comes let me say now that if we can negotiate such an arrangement, I will campaign for it with all my heart and soul. Clearly implies if he cant, he will campaign against remaining in UK.

Not sure you understand the difference between "imply" and "promise"...

Hence I didn't say he promised to campaign but he will campaign. There was clear implication he would do so.

[The UK in Exile]

point out where cameron promised that.

"Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election."

8.45am GMT: And when the referendum comes let me say now that if we can negotiate such an arrangement, I will campaign for it with all my heart and soul. Clearly implies if he cant, he will campaign against remaining in UK.

And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice. To stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether.

except of course, he meant if. a clear statement otherwise.

A vote today between the status quo and leaving would be an entirely false choice.

We need to allow some time for that to happen – and help to shape the future of the European Union, so that when the choice comes it will be a real one.
A real choice between leaving or being part of a new settlement in which Britain shapes and respects the rules of the single market but is protected by fair safeguards, and free of the spurious regulation which damages Europe’s competitiveness.

The next Conservative Manifesto in 2015 will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative Government to negotiate a new settlement with our European partners in the next Parliament.

[Wind in the Willows]

No we shouldn't be in the EU.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No we shouldn't be in the EU.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=201985

[Nidaria]

No, the EU is sinking slowly and remaining in it will only cause more drowned victims.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No, the EU is sinking slowly and remaining in it will only cause more drowned victims.

[citation needed]

[The UK in Exile]

No, the EU is sinking slowly and remaining in it will only cause more drowned victims.

which only makes Britain demanding to be allowed first dibs on any wreckage to cling to all the more contemptible.

[New Densaner]

No. Britain should leave the EU. However Cameron is taking us for a ride. H eis more worried about his right wing and UKIP than Europe. He will not get a renegotiation of Britain's place in the EU. We should have a referendum now and get it out of the way. There is no need to wait five or six years for something that will never happen.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No. Britain should leave the EU. However Cameron is taking us for a ride. H eis more worried about his right wing and UKIP than Europe. He will not get a renegotiation of Britain's place in the EU. We should have a referendum now and get it out of the way. There is no need to wait five or six years for something that will never happen.

Why should Britain leave the EU, and what do you mean by "renegotiating our place in the EU"? Any specific things that you think need changing?