NationStates

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:29 am**

Kouralia wrote:
Nua Corda wrote:
I think you've misread that a bit. Try again, and look for the somewhat snide part in quotation marks.

Found it!
Albion Rhodesia wrote:Considering that every interview or press release that the Senator gives, she's either holding a firearm improperly/dangerously, I believe that her right to even be able to propose such legislation should be stripped away, as she has no concept of firearms whatsoever.

So, now I'm confused; are you backing up Farn, or mistaking her point?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:29 am**

Farnhamia wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
The fuck why does she have her finger on the trigger?

Whenever you guys are ready to talk about the real issue, which is how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and angry teenagers, to mention just a few, let us know. In the meantime, have fun making fun of people actually trying to deal with the problem.

As soon as they figure out what they need to do and understand what they try to ban we may give them some leway.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30 am**

I believe pistols are alright, but you don't need other weapons in today's age. Pistols can still kill, there must be a thick and tough mental health registry that will prevent the mentally ill(or relatives of any kind) from owning firearms. Where I currently live, a homicide was committed by an insane woman who believed herself a descendant of ancient egyptian pharaohs and blessed by Ra. Her only hindrance to getting a pistol and adequate ammunition to commit the murder was a short questionnaire featuring only one overly simple question regarding her sanity. "Are you mentally ill?" :palm:

I live in America, if you haven't caught on. My country's gun control is a joke.

Edit: Aaand I was looking at the wrong part of the page for my response, thusly saying something irrelevant to the topic at hand. If it's really this bad in Belgium, the police need to be doing a better job and the society needs re-structuring. It should probably include allowing self-defense through smaller firearms.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:32 am**

Farnhamia wrote:On-line sources, please? And I'm not sure children being killed by a parent is solvable by "self-defense."

- in two of the cases the oldest victim was over 16.

- in the case of the attack on the nursery there was a carer present.

- two of the attacks targeted legal adults (with one targeting both legal adults and children).

all five of these atrocities could have been stopped by self-defense.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 am**

Iseran wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:On-line sources, please? And I'm not sure children being killed by a parent is solvable by "self-defense."

- in two of the cases the oldest victim was over 16.

- in the case of the attack on the nursery there was a carer present.

- two of the attacks targeted legal adults (with one targeting both legal adults and children).

all five of these atrocities could have been stopped by self-defense.

A mother killing her children could have been stopped by self defense? Yeah they were just gonna pull out their AK and off their mother :clap:

And I'm still not sure which cases you're talking about except Kim De Gelder's thing and that thing in Liege, so I'm only going to comment on those unless you start being less vague:

Kim De Gelder killed toddlers and their care-givers in a nursery. You think it would have been a good idea that there would have been guns present in said nursery for "self defense"?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 am**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Whenever you guys are ready to talk about the real issue, which is how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and angry teenagers, to mention just a few, let us know. In the meantime, have fun making fun of people actually trying to deal with the problem.

As soon as they figure out what they need to do and understand what they try to ban we ~~may~~ will give them some leway.

Fix'd. Bickering about this like spoiled children and dehumanizing the other side is counterproductive as all hell. I would like nothing more than to be able to explain how guns work to people who want to generate effective control, and help them write a good bill that deals with the problem and minimizes the harm to sportsmen and enthusiasts like myself. I would be willing to make some concessions, even though I've got the solution pretty well hammered out. But in order for any of that to happen, some of these people need to get off their high horses and accept that not all gun enthusiasts are crazy anti-government child-killers, and that they have no idea what they're talking about, and actually do need the help of knowledgeable people on the subject.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:35 am**

Iseran wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:On-line sources, please? And I'm not sure children being killed by a parent is solvable by "self-defense."

- in two of the cases the oldest victim was over 16.

- in the case of the attack on the nursery there was a carer present.

- two of the attacks targeted legal adults (with one targeting both legal adults and children).

all five of these atrocities could have been stopped by self-defense.

I'm not sure you understand...

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:35 am**

Iseran, he means a link to these sources, that's all.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:38 am**

Thafoo wrote:
Iseran wrote:My country, Belgium, has some of the strictest arms control laws in the world (even pepper spray is illegal) and has seen five mass killings over the last four years, four of which targeted young children and one of which resulted in over 125 casualties.
This country is so dangerous that i have been robbed three times in broad daylight (once at knife point), i have seen a youth gang vandalize a truck with metal pipes while they hurled abuse at the terrified driver, i have witnessed two armed robberies, i have heard of 3 home invasions taking place in my street over the last year and i have been threatened in public on countless occasions, all in what is supposedly a "safe" part of the country.

Upon conducting some research i discovered that Europe is much worse off than the united states in terms of violent crime, in fact two European nations (the UK and Austria) are so bad that they are worse off than South Africa.
After a brief comparison it becomes obvious that European countries which have virtually banned self-defense such as Belgium, the Netherlands and the UK have extremely high crime rates while the countries which allow individuals to carry weapons (i.e pepper spray) for self defense in addition to having more relaxed gun laws such as Switzerland, Hungary and the Czech republic have very low crime rates.
The same situation can be found in Asia, where we can see that middle-eastern countries with very lax gun laws such as Saudi Arabia have very low crime rates, while other Asian countries with strict gun control such as the PRC have very high crime (and suicide) rates.
Ditto for America, where we can see that the USA with it's lax gun control has a much lower crime rate than the Latin American nations with strict gun control.

The only logical conclusion is that legalizing armed self-defense (not necessarily with firearms, but at the very least with less-lethal weapons such as pepper spray) will lower violent crime rates significantly.

Americans: please don't give up your guns, otherwise you will end up like us; having to fight for the right to defend yourselves against junkies and sadists with pepper spray.

I don't see the harm in illegalizing assault weapons. A pistol may be a good defense weapon. A bushmaster is like using a minefield to defend against a few wolves.

They are still fun to shoot. Just cause you outlaw them doesnt mean people wont have them.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:57 am**

So, which member of the gun lobby's puppet are you?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:00 am**

Great Nepal wrote:
Norcroft wrote:theres no kill like overkill.

So you are suggesting we should nuke criminals from orbit using antimatter warheads?

I'm down with this. Would really help clean up the bad parts of town and stop inner city crime.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:02 am**

Choronzon wrote:So, which member of the gun lobby's puppet are you?

Which member of the gun-control lobby's puppet are you?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:04 am**

Risottia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:Self defense is a basic human right.

And it is already recognized in all CoE countries. Belgium included.

I don't know anything about the laws of the European nations.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:05 am**

Yes Im Biop wrote:
Albion Rhodesia wrote:Considering that every interview or press release that the Senator gives, she's either holding a firearm improperly/dangerously, I believe that her right to even be able to propose such legislation should be stripped away, as she has no concept of firearms whatsoever.

(Image)

The fuck why does she have her finger on the trigger?

Stupidity, or she is planning on shooting someone.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:07 am**

Ugh. This is happening again.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:09 am**

Dyakovo wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
You pretty much nailed it. Just like owning more than one car, there is nothing wrong with owning more than one gun.

No, no, no... Owning a gun makes you a criminal, so owning more than one makes you a super-criminal.
*nods*

Of course it does.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 am**

Falcania wrote:Ugh. This is happening again.

What is?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:10 am**

Big Jim P wrote:
Yes Im Biop wrote:
The fuck why does she have her finger on the trigger?

Stupidity, or she is planning on shooting someone.

Or the gun is not loaded, and even if she does shoot someone, it would be a member of the US Senate, so no big deal.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:11 am**

Falcania wrote:Ugh. This is happening again.

It will always happen here. It goes in cycles and since we've had a spate of high-profile firearms incidents in the USA, it manifests here as this sort of thing.

Big Jim P wrote:
Falcania wrote:Ugh. This is happening again.

What is?

The rehashed topics, perhaps.

Since you've been here a long time, I assume you've noticed patterns?

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:12 am**

Frisivisia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Stupidity, or she is planning on shooting someone.

Or the gun is not loaded, and even if she does shoot someone, it would be a member of the US Senate, so no big deal.

All guns are loaded until you prove them otherwise, and even then, you do not put your finger on the trigger.

Edit: all things considered, I am voting for stupidity.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:13 am**

Frisivisia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Stupidity, or she is planning on shooting someone.

Or the gun is not loaded, and even if she does shoot someone, it would be a member of the US Senate, so no big deal.

For the purposes of safety, if you have not cleared the weapon and checked the chamber personally in the last few secounds, or it's currently in a state of complete or partial disassembly, a gun is always loaded.

Firearms Safety 101: Keep your booger-hook off the bang-stick, damnit!

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:13 am**

Tagmatium wrote:
Falcania wrote:Ugh. This is happening again.

It will always happen here. It goes in cycles and since we've had a spate of high-profile firearms incidents in the USA, it manifests here as this sort of thing.
Big Jim P wrote:What is?

The rehashed topics, perhaps.

Since you've been here a long time, I assume you've noticed patterns?

flogging dead horses is what we do best around here, but I haven't seen a thread like this in a while.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:15 am**

Frisivisia wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Stupidity, or she is planning on shooting someone.

Or the gun is not loaded, and even if she does shoot someone, it would be a member of the US Senate, so no big deal.

Even if the gun isn't loaded her finger shouldn't be on the trigger. If she knew anything about gun safety she'd know that.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:15 am**

Nua Corda wrote:
Frisivisia wrote:Or the gun is not loaded, and even if she does shoot someone, it would be a member of the US Senate, so no big deal.

For the purposes of safety, if you have not cleared the weapon and checked the chamber personally in the last few secounds, or it's currently in a state of complete or partial disassembly, a gun is always loaded.

Firearms Safety 101: Keep your booger-hook off the bang-stick, damnit!

Diane Feinstein does not need silly "safety", especially not on the floor of the Senate.

Posted: **Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:19 am**

Big Jim P wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:It will always happen here. It goes in cycles and since we've had a spate of high-profile firearms incidents in the USA, it manifests here as this sort of thing.

The rehashed topics, perhaps.

Since you've been here a long time, I assume you've noticed patterns?

flogging dead horses is what we do best around here, but I haven't seen a thread like this in a while.

Yeah, nearly three weeks this time. Sigh. We've established beyond all doubt that people like me are going to disagree with people like Big Jim P. Do we need to carry on at that?

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