Utah Sheriffs warn Obama

[Tyramithul]

When bin Laden used violence to bend the US to his will, that was bad. When Republicans threaten violence to bend the US to their will, what? Are these people patriots, or terrorists?

So if people want to succeed from the union and the commie hippies are cheering for bombing them into the ground, running them over with tanks, or having the secret service kill the succeession supporters, this somehow makes the successionists violent?

[Risottia]

Have to love the democratic leftists dreaming about murdering and invading people who wants to keep their guns.

2 €cents say we're with birther.

So if people want to succeed from the union

Learn to speak English first. Maybe you'll be able to understand something about the US Constitution, then.

and the commie hippies are cheering for bombing them into the ground, running them over with tanks, or having the secret service kill the succeession supporters, this somehow makes the successionists violent?

Who would have started the threatening and the gun-toting? Whoopsie, there goeth thy argument.

[Bottle]

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

Birthers are morons, and non-citizens aren't allowed to vote.

He's not a racist, guys, he just doesn't like when non-citizens get to vote. You know, all those swarthy, not-from-around-here sort of non-citizens who elect presidents who obviously aren't from here either.

[Wikkiwallana]

Because the Federal Government does know more than the States when it comes to Federal policy

Federal policy can't exceed the bill of rights, though.

The Bill of Rights does not include a right to declare war on the government.

[Bottle]

*double post*

[Laerod]

When bin Laden used violence to bend the US to his will, that was bad. When Republicans threaten violence to bend the US to their will, what? Are these people patriots, or terrorists?

Patriots who want to use their guns to say "we dun need no steenkin elekshuns!"

Aka, wannabe putschists. I blame the lack of Beer Halls in Salt Lake City.

Sucks when you have to go to Las Vegas for it.

[Laerod]

Because the Federal Government does know more than the States when it comes to Federal policy

Federal policy can't exceed the bill of rights, though.

Show that it has.

[North Mesquite]

Federal policy can't exceed the bill of rights, though.

The Bill of Rights does not include a right to declare war on the government.

It doesn't have to people will still do it if they have to.

[Wikkiwallana]

Give us an example.

"18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
That is law, buddy. My tax dollars at work. I could have picked about 50% of them, but this one stuck out specifically because it violates two laws: spending bills originate in the house, and the president is not the one who controls spending.

We have a Department of Education, it has a budget assigned to it by Congress and discretion in how it spends that budget. Care to try again?

[Laerod]

The Bill of Rights does not include a right to declare war on the government.

It doesn't have to people will still do it if it has to.

What.

[Risottia]

Federal policy can't exceed the bill of rights, though.

The Bill of Rights does not include a right to declare war on the government.

Pretty much this.

Technically, if someone "declares war" on his own government, that amounts to a treason-type crime.

[Galiantus II]

When bin Laden used violence to bend the US to his will, that was bad. When Republicans threaten violence to bend the US to their will, what? Are these people patriots, or terrorists?

Well in 1776, I am sure King George thought closer to "terrorists" than "patriots", but I have the feeling you think that is somehow irrelevant.

Also, there is a difference between making an attack on someone else, and defending yourself, your family, and your friends from a tyrannical government. Utah won't make the first move, but I can assure you that, if someone does make a move, it will be troops loyal to Obama (perhaps some of you guys) setting foot on Utah soil - not the other way around.

[Wikkiwallana]

"18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
That is law, buddy. My tax dollars at work. I could have picked about 50% of them, but this one stuck out specifically because it violates two laws: spending bills originate in the house, and the president is not the one who controls spending.

Your tax dollars at work, yes, but through an existing program:

Take executive action to provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers: COPS Hiring Grants, which help police departments hire officers, can already be used by departments to fund school resource officers. This year, the Department of Justice will provide an incentive for police departments to hire these officers by providing a preference for grant applications that support school resource officers.

Do you think we can't look this stuff up?

I'm beginning to think he can't.

[North Mesquite]

It doesn't have to people will still do it if it has to.

What.

People can go to war with other people whether it be physical or using words i.e. protest.

[Bottle]

It doesn't have to people will still do it if it has to.

What.

I think he's saying that people will rebel against their government if they "have to", even if it's not legal.

Which, I mean, that's kind of what rebelling against the government is, right? If you were following the lawful procedure of addressing grievances, it wouldn't be "rebellion."

[North Mesquite]

What.

I think he's saying that people will rebel against their government if they "have to", even if it's not legal.

Which, I mean, that's kind of what rebelling against the government is, right? If you were following the lawful procedure of addressing grievances, it wouldn't be "rebellion."

At least some people understand.

[Laerod]

What.

People can go to war with other people whether it be physical or using words i.e. protest.

No.

[Laerod]

What.

I think he's saying that people will rebel against their government if they "have to", even if it's not legal.

Which, I mean, that's kind of what rebelling against the government is, right? If you were following the lawful procedure of addressing grievances, it wouldn't be "rebellion."

Eh. I blame my loss for words on my loss of blood.

[Bottle]

I think he's saying that people will rebel against their government if they "have to", even if it's not legal.

Which, I mean, that's kind of what rebelling against the government is, right? If you were following the lawful procedure of addressing grievances, it wouldn't be "rebellion."

At least some people understand.

Not to undermine myself here, but to be honest I really don't understand your point.

[Galiantus II]

Federal policy can't exceed the bill of rights, though.

Show that it has.

Well when over 50% of the states file a lawsuit against the federal government in response to Obamacare, it is hard to say the 10th Amendment hasn't been violated.

[Wikkiwallana]

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

So you don't know what "last resort" means?

Isn't it what you start screaming you'll use the minute things look like they might not go perfectly your way for a few minutes in the indefinite future?

[Tyramithul]

Have to love the democratic leftists dreaming about murdering and invading people who wants to keep their guns.

2 €cents say we're with birther.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but I have no knowledge about Obamas early life, except like some Hawaii, and I don't really care. I have no reason to believe he was born in Kenya, or something of the sort.

So if people want to succeed from the union

Learn to speak English first. Maybe you'll be able to understand something about the US Constitution, then.

I'm not an American and don't really care about the constitution one way or the other. As far as I'm aware the constitution has had a bunch of amendments in the past, I don't see any reason to hold it as some divine unchangeable document, handed to us from God.

and the commie hippies are cheering for bombing them into the ground, running them over with tanks, or having the secret service kill the succeession supporters, this somehow makes the successionists violent?

Who would have started the threatening and the gun-toting? Whoopsie, there goeth thy argument.

Not sure if serious. I see plenty of people who reject the idea of states seceding based on the fact that it's illegal and would lead to said state being invaded by the union. Usually from people who support freedom movies outside the US and think it's a conspiracy theory to claim that the government is tyrannical.

[Laerod]

Show that it has.

Well when over 50% of the states file a lawsuit against the federal government in response to Obamacare, it is hard to say the 10th Amendment hasn't been violated.

Actually: The tenth amendment hasn't been violated.

Easy as fuck.

Also states filing lawsuits is not how violations of the tenth amendment are measured or determined.

[I Want to Smash Them All]

Although they are better than anyone who would threaten treason over a paranoid delusion.

"Paranoid"? Would you call the people in Tiananmen Square "paranoid"?! Because that's what happens when the feds get more power. Do you seriously think all our leaders are benevolant, selfless people? How about the president?

I am not sure how any of this ranting is related to either President Obama's recent Executive Orders regarding firearms or his asking Congress to consider and pass certain legislative proposals. Can you explain with specificity how any of those things is acting "like a king," comparable to Tiananmen Square, or comes anywhere near a threat of tyranny, genocide, or revolution?

Also, why are these county Sheriffs (who are not all of the Sheriffs in Utah) necessarily more benevolent, selfless, trustworthy, wise, and informed than the President of the United States, the U.S. Congress, or both?

Consider these facts:

• President Barack Obama was recently re-elected by receiving the votes of about 66 million U.S. citizens.
  
  
• The U.S. House of Representatives is controlled by a Republican majority and its members were elected by a majority of citizens in congressional districts across the United States. The average population of these districts is 710,767 people with the largest district having a population of 994,416 and the smallest having a population of 568,300.
  
  
• The United States Senate consists of 100 members -- two for each U.S. state. Officially, 53 U.S. Senators are Democrats, 2 are Independents, and 45 are Republicans. All but (IIRC) two of the current Senators were elected by a majority of citizens in their respective states. (Any appointed were chosen by the popularly elected Governor of their state to fill a temporary vacancy.) The largest state has a population of about 38 million people and the smallest state has a population of about 580,000 people.
  
  
• Utah (the 35th largest state) has a population of about 2.9 million people.
  
  
• If one assumes the all of the county sheriffs in Utah who ostensibly signed the letter represent the entire populations of their respective counties, they collectively represent about 1.7 million people (slightly more than one-half of Utah).
  
  
• At least one (and probably more) of the Sheriffs listed as signers of the letter in question did not actually sign it and do not agree with it.
  
  
• Although the Republican Governor of Utah disagrees with and is concerned by President Obama's actions and proposals concern firearms, he also disagrees with the "emotional, knee-jerk" overreaction expressed in the letter by the group of Utah Sheriffs.
  
  
• Leaders and members of the group of Utah Sheriffs have noted the letter is a preemptive warning against gun confiscations no one in the U.S. government has actually, urged people not to panic that the government will come and take their guns, and said they do not believe such a thing will actually happen. At least some agree with parts of President Obama's actual proposals. The leader of the group, Sheriff David Edmonds, says that he doesn’t object to anything proposed by the Obama Administration already. See, e.g., link, link, link, link.

So, is it possible that you are overreacting and, although one should be vigilant, popularly U.S. elected officials (controlled by checks and balances and federalism) are not quite the threat to you that you seem to think they are?

[EnragedMaldivians]

What.

People can go to war with other people whether it be physical or using words i.e. protest.

How does protesting ever equate to war?

Oh nevermimd. Ah yes, I remember reading about the American civil war in which the confederates and unionists gathered at Fort Sumter and yelled at each other for four years.