Utah Sheriffs warn Obama

[I Want to Smash Them All]

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

FYI, whether or not these are valid ideas, they were not expressed by Thomas Jefferson. Link, link.

[Dyakovo]

Although they are better than anyone who would threaten treason over a paranoid delusion.

"Paranoid"? Would you call the people in Tiananmen Square "paranoid"?! Because that's what happens when the feds get more power. Do you seriously think all our leaders are benevolant, selfless people? How about the president?

I'd call anyone who thinks that the US today is even remotely similar to the People's Republic of China in the 80s paranoid and delusional. I'd also recommend they seek psychiatric help immediately.

[Wikkiwallana]

Indeed, Madison's make more sense logically at that. An amendment to a government constitution does not protect one from tyranny by that government. If the government is so tyrannical, the amendment is not going to help you, because it would be long gone.

Mind you there were a number of framers of the constitution who supported it for the same reason as Jefferson, Patrick Henry comes to kind as a prominent example...

Patrick Henry wanted it to keep the slaves in their place.

If the country be invaded, a state may go to war, but cannot suppress [slave] insurrections [under this new Constitution]. If there should happen an insurrection of slaves, the country cannot be said to be invaded. They cannot, therefore, suppress it without the interposition of Congress . . . . Congress, and Congress only [under this new Constitution], can call forth the militia.

In this state, there are two hundred and thirty-six thousand blacks, and there are many in several other states. But there are few or none in the Northern States. . . . May Congress not say, that every black man must fight? Did we not see a little of this last war? We were not so hard pushed as to make emancipation general; but acts of Assembly passed that every slave who would go to the army should be free.

[Tekania]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.



Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

Oh, and exactly HOW does poisoning the well help your argument?

Conservatives happen to belive history repeats itself - if you give someone power, they tend to abuse it, and hurt others in the process. Currently, Obama seems to think he is the king of the U.S, and that makes us uneasy. The events that have happened in the past (genocide, authoritarianism, revolution, etc.) are all still possible in the U.S, because they have happened, and are happening, elsewhere and in the past. For us to trust a few politicians, half of whom are millionares or billionares, to not repeat human nature - to repeate history, is exceedingly ignorant.

No, Obama does not think he is King..... he thinks he is the President.

[Galiantus II]

All they are saying is "if you make moves to ban guns, we will stand by the oath we took". They did not threaten war.

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

[Bottle]

Despite the reflection off your monitor, you're actually not typing to yourself here.

That is not an argument.

Oh dear, did...did you think this was an argument we were having?

Did you really think that what you posted in that great big rant was an argument or a reply to my post of some kind, rather than an unhinged explosion resulting from your failure to read for comprehension? Did you think there was something of substance in your post which warranted more than a sly underlining of the fantastic irony and lack of self-awareness in your words?

Because, um, no. Just no.

[Wikkiwallana]

Obama seems to think he is the king of the U.S

And this is why we cannot take you seriously.

[Yankee Empire]

All they are saying is "if you make moves to ban guns, we will stand by the oath we took". They did not threaten war.

The article you said "hints at war" maybe they didn't and that's good if they didn't

[I Want to Smash Them All]

Since 1789. The power to issue executive orders is granted by the constitution, specifically Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 and Article II, Section 3, Clause 5.

"The Executive power" does not mean the same thing as "the legislative power". Obama doesn't like that the Republicans are holding the house, and making it harder for him to make America his own little "Obamatopia", so he is doing what he wants by going against the constitution.

Section 3: nowhere in Section 3 does it say anything about hard power, other than that he is the one who directs the enforcement of laws passed by congress. The only other thing I see there, is that he may make reccomendations for bills to pass congress, and that he can inform congress of information he wants them to know.

Um. Beyond the question of reading comprehension, are you certain that your analysis of the U.S. Constitution (which I am sure is based on careful consideration and research) is superior not only to the current President of the United States and U.S. Supreme Court, but decades upon decades of government officials and legal precedent?

[Risottia]

It depends, do I get to fly an F-15?

Actually you can have Eurofighter, if you wish.

Deal.

It depends, do I get to fly an F-15?

Not anywhere near buildings you don't.

Why? I'm not an Evil M00zlem you know!

And anyway it's Utah. There's hardly any thing you could call "building" over there.

Maybe off a carrier, because that's funny and doesn't hurt anyone but yourself.

Well, a carrier variant of the F-15 would be quite cool.

[Reichsland]

There is a high probability that the sherrifs will do nothing. As for secession, I highly doubt that too. If any state decided to secede they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I think that the majority of the states are too dependent on the feds for money anyways. So if they secede, that money stops flowing and the thriving garden they call their economy will be ravaged by bunnies. As in their economy will probably collapse. Unless some how they could put off an invasion from the feds, find new trade partners, and manage to keep anarchy and unrest in their state at a bare minimum. Unrest might result from the shrinking economy not having enough money for infrastructure, welfare and other entitlements. It would also probably result in high unemployment because the federal government would probably some sort of embargoe on the state preventing resources not readily available in the seceded state to stop arriving. These resources are necessary to keep manufacturing and the entire economy afloat.

And as far as the civil war went, the south really didnt stand a chance. Im from TN, and I have to say that you cant win a war by throwing cotton at enemy muskets.

Please disect this statement and correct me where Im wrong. Im open to being corrected.

[Laerod]

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them,

So why bring it up at all?

but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

They don't.

[Ceannairceach]

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

There is no evidence that the President was not born in the United States. Much exists to the contrary, however.

Non-US Citizens cannot vote in presidential elections.

So, in short, stop grasping for straws.

[Galiantus II]

Oh, and exactly HOW does poisoning the well help your argument?

Conservatives happen to belive history repeats itself - if you give someone power, they tend to abuse it, and hurt others in the process. Currently, Obama seems to think he is the king of the U.S, and that makes us uneasy. The events that have happened in the past (genocide, authoritarianism, revolution, etc.) are all still possible in the U.S, because they have happened, and are happening, elsewhere and in the past. For us to trust a few politicians, half of whom are millionares or billionares, to not repeat human nature - to repeate history, is exceedingly ignorant.

No, Obama does not think he is King..... he thinks he is the President.

You know. That's probably true. You're right, I am wrong... on this issue.

[Tekania]

DAMN!



To expect the government to commit suicide by repealing 2nd amendment rights is also exceedingly ignorant.

Also, please justify your claim of Obama thinking he's the King of America.

How is circumventing congress through executive orders not dictator-like?

Easy, he's not circumventing congress via executive orders.

[I Want to Smash Them All]

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

Some people obviously believe all sorts of stupid things -- even when mountains of evidence contradict them and there is no rational basis for their beliefs.

[Ifreann]

When bin Laden used violence to bend the US to his will, that was bad. When Republicans threaten violence to bend the US to their will, what? Are these people patriots, or terrorists?

[Wikkiwallana]

Haha seriously? I'm in total favour of de-centralisation, but you're a sovereign nation under a sovereign federal government, so you should start behaving like one instead of playing martyrs, because you are nothing but martyrs of violence and ignorance.

Take me seriously. I am prepared to die for what a believe.

You may say these things with incredible solemnity, but the things said are so ludicrous as to not be worth consideration of more than the barest momentary laugh.

DAMN!



To expect the government to commit suicide by repealing 2nd amendment rights is also exceedingly ignorant.

Also, please justify your claim of Obama thinking he's the King of America.

How is circumventing congress through executive orders not dictator-like?

The part where he didn't circumvent Congress.

Edit: fixed tag

[Tekania]

It's not because his 23 EOs don't materially affect the rights of persons who already own guns. Here's a list, for your information.

23? Is that right? Tell me: since when does the president have the authority to pass even one measure of legislation? This is unlawful.

They are not measures of legislation. They are executive orders.... they are orders which only effect policies and procedures within departments managed by the executive branch of the US government.

[North Mesquite]

This is ridiculous. They'll just be bombed to hell and back if they go through with this. With Predators, I don't doubt.

But then there will be outlash, citizen would start riots/protest because of that.

[Bottle]

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

Yeah guys, it's right there in the Constitution:

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. Unless there are some guys who suspect that the President is actually a 6-foot-tall iguana wearing a suit made of human skins, in which case he'll get sacked because we don't take no orders from stinkin' lizardmen.

[Risottia]

When bin Laden used violence to bend the US to his will, that was bad. When Republicans threaten violence to bend the US to their will, what? Are these people patriots, or terrorists?

Patriots who want to use their guns to say "we dun need no steenkin elekshuns!"

Aka, wannabe putschists. I blame the lack of Beer Halls in Salt Lake City.

[I Want to Smash Them All]

This is Disgusting, unless Obama actually makes a move to outlaw people from owning or purchasing firearms (which he hasn't) then something like this is completely out of line.

It's one thing to raise a word of warning if you think the president is planning on doing something like this, it's a whole differant ballgame when you THREATEN WAR against your own government.

But by an large the stupidest thing about this is say all the paranoid survivalist/neo-confederates are actually right about "tyrant Obama", now they just got time to form a contingency plan.

Either way this is just a dumb move.

All they are saying is "if you make moves to ban guns, we will stand by the oath we took". They did not threaten war.

But you made it clear you would support both the threat of war and an actual war and have expounded upon your support thereof.

[Dyakovo]

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

"Rightfull government"? You know, some people still believe Obama's birth cirtificate is a fake. I may not be with them, but I think that when people who are not even citizens of the U.S. get to vote, I am not exactly confident our president is really supposed to be our president.

Birthers are morons, and non-citizens aren't allowed to vote.

[Wikkiwallana]

Have to love the democratic leftists dreaming about murdering and invading people who wants to keep their guns.

Have to love whatever-your-position-is-ists making shit about democratic leftists up to fit their preconceived narratives.