Utah Sheriffs warn Obama

[Wamitoria]

Since 1789. The power to issue executive orders is granted by the constitution, specifically Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 and Article II, Section 3, Clause 5.

"The Executive power" does not mean the same thing as "the legislative power". Obama doesn't like that the Republicans are holding the house, and making it harder for him to make America his own little "Obamatopia", so he is doing what he wants by going against the constitution.

Section 3: nowhere in Section 3 does it say anything about hard power, other than that he is the one who directs the enforcement of laws passed by congress. The only other thing I see there, is that he may make reccomendations for bills to pass congress, and that he can inform congress of information he wants them to know.

God, and I thought I was paranoid.

[Ceannairceach]

Since 1789. The power to issue executive orders is granted by the constitution, specifically Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 and Article II, Section 3, Clause 5.

"The Executive power" does not mean the same thing as "the legislative power". Obama doesn't like that the Republicans are holding the house, and making it harder for him to make America his own little "Obamatopia", so he is doing what he wants by going against the constitution.

Section 3: nowhere in Section 3 does it say anything about hard power, other than that he is the one who directs the enforcement of laws passed by congress. The only other thing I see there, is that he may make reccomendations for bills to pass congress, and that he can inform congress of information he wants them to know.

If what he is doing was against the Constitution, then a court case can be brought against him. I'm sure the Republican majority held supreme court that has defended Obama thus far aptly will love to hear the case.

Only the Supreme Court can decide if something is constitutional or not. Backwater sheriffs can't.

[Vistulange]

Hilarious. I'm not American, but I believe that individual states have the right to secede from the Union? Though, I believe I've read something that explains that if they somehow do so, they'd be bombed back to the stone age. Would someone like to clarify?

[Yankee Empire]

This is Disgusting, unless Obama actually makes a move to outlaw people from owning or purchasing firearms (which he hasn't) then something like this is completely out of line.

It's one thing to raise a word of warning if you think the president is planning on doing something like this, it's a whole differant ballgame when you THREATEN WAR against your own government.

But by an large the stupidest thing about this is say all the paranoid survivalist/neo-confederates are actually right about "tyrant Obama", now they just got time to form a contingency plan.

Either way this is just a dumb move.

[Ceannairceach]

Hilarious. I'm not American, but I believe that individual states have the right to secede from the Union? Though, I believe I've read something that explains that if they somehow do so, they'd be bombed back to the stone age. Would someone like to clarify?

No, secession is illegal in the United States, interestingly enough. You might have heard of the war we had over it.

[Wamitoria]

Hilarious. I'm not American, but I believe that individual states have the right to secede from the Union? Though, I believe I've read something that explains that if they somehow do so, they'd be bombed back to the stone age. Would someone like to clarify?

They don't have the right to secede. Texas v. White said they don't.

[Wikkiwallana]

I wonder if we'll ever reach a point at which people stop whining about how they'll go to war when they don't get their way.

And give up show business?!

[Yankee Empire]

Hilarious. I'm not American, but I believe that individual states have the right to secede from the Union? Though, I believe I've read something that explains that if they somehow do so, they'd be bombed back to the stone age. Would someone like to clarify?

No it's not, this is often brought up by secessionists that like to do selective reading.

[Laerod]

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

So you don't know what "last resort" means?

[Tyramithul]

Hilarious. I'm not American, but I believe that individual states have the right to secede from the Union? Though, I believe I've read something that explains that if they somehow do so, they'd be bombed back to the stone age. Would someone like to clarify?

No, secession is illegal in the United States, interestingly enough. You might have heard of the war we had over it.

Yes, see, the whole democracy and secession/independance only applies to people outside America. In the US it's evil and wrong, and you and everyone in your state deserve to be murdered, enslaved or forced back into the union if you even think about it.

[Wikkiwallana]

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

This bullshit is old and dried out. Can we please get a fresher one? It's falling apart, for pity's sake.

[Bottle]

No, secession is illegal in the United States, interestingly enough. You might have heard of the war we had over it.

Yes, see, the whole democracy and secession/independance only applies to people outside America. In the US it's evil and wrong, and you and everyone in your state deserve to be murdered, enslaved or forced back into the union if you even think about it.

If you're unable to participate in the peaceful democratic process and enact political change through means other than violent uprising, then you deserve to be removed from power so that less deranged individuals can represent the people of your state.

If you throw violent fits every time you lose an election, or every time the government enacts a law you don't agree with, then you are entire too unstable to be in charge of yourself, let alone others. You deserve to be denied access to weaponry so that you cannot harm yourself or others.

Calm the fuck down.

[Laerod]

No, secession is illegal in the United States, interestingly enough. You might have heard of the war we had over it.

Yes, see, the whole democracy and secession/independance only applies to people outside America. In the US it's evil and wrong, and you and everyone in your state deserve to be murdered, enslaved or forced back into the union if you even think about it.

How can you "force someone back into the union" if all they've done is thought about secession? You're not making any sense...

[Galiantus II]

You can take offense all you like. Not only is he a nut, he's a treasonous scumbag.

I honestly think he's more like a little kid who has had too much sugar and is up past his bedtime.

These folks are fed an unhealthy diet of paranoia, toxic masculinity, racism, and misinformation. Small wonder that they are cranky and behave badly.

This doesn't mean we should allow them to mess up our country, of course, but it does mean that we should apply the same firm but fair discipline that we would apply for any over-excited child.

Let me call you out on this one: I am NOT racist. Your utter lack of self-control and quick judgement is dangerous. Oh, you didn't say I was racist, but for you to say anyone I associate with is a racist is utterly wrong. "Toxic Masculinity"? What are you smoking? All men and women are created equal, and everyone I associate and agree with thinks that way. Oh, and quit the social justice rant - ethnicity and gender are irrelevant to conservatives. Now, maybe liberals like pandering to them and like telling them how they are "oppressed"... Grow up! The world is a harsh place, and people hurt other people all the time! I want it to stop too, you know, but I happen to believe people should be able to do a certain amount of "wrong" if they so choose. Of course I am against murder, stealing, corruption, etc. etc, but really, you don't have to manage my life.

[Wikkiwallana]

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Thomas Jefferson did not single handedly create the USA.

[Ceannairceach]

No, secession is illegal in the United States, interestingly enough. You might have heard of the war we had over it.

Yes, see, the whole democracy and secession/independance only applies to people outside America. In the US it's evil and wrong, and you and everyone in your state deserve to be murdered, enslaved or forced back into the union if you even think about it.

You are free to leave whenever you want. But you can't take US property with you. States fall under that umbrella.

[Bottle]

Your utter lack of self-control and quick judgement is dangerous.

Despite the reflection off your monitor, you're actually not typing to yourself here.

[Laerod]

I honestly think he's more like a little kid who has had too much sugar and is up past his bedtime.

These folks are fed an unhealthy diet of paranoia, toxic masculinity, racism, and misinformation. Small wonder that they are cranky and behave badly.

This doesn't mean we should allow them to mess up our country, of course, but it does mean that we should apply the same firm but fair discipline that we would apply for any over-excited child.

Let me call you out on this one: I am NOT racist. Your utter lack of self-control and quick judgement is dangerous. Oh, you didn't say I was racist, but for you to say anyone I associate with is a racist is utterly wrong. "Toxic Masculinity"? What are you smoking? All men and women are created equal, and everyone I associate and agree with thinks that way. Oh, and quit the social justice rant - ethnicity and gender are irrelevant to conservatives. Now, maybe liberals like pandering to them and like telling them how they are "oppressed"... Grow up! The world is a harsh place, and people hurt other people all the time! I want it to stop too, you know, but I happen to believe people should be able to do a certain amount of "wrong" if they so choose. Of course I am against murder, stealing, corruption, etc. etc, but really, you don't have to manage my life.

Portal to the Multiverse is thataway.

[Galiantus II]

This is Disgusting, unless Obama actually makes a move to outlaw people from owning or purchasing firearms (which he hasn't) then something like this is completely out of line.

It's one thing to raise a word of warning if you think the president is planning on doing something like this, it's a whole differant ballgame when you THREATEN WAR against your own government.

But by an large the stupidest thing about this is say all the paranoid survivalist/neo-confederates are actually right about "tyrant Obama", now they just got time to form a contingency plan.

Either way this is just a dumb move.

All they are saying is "if you make moves to ban guns, we will stand by the oath we took". They did not threaten war.

[Dyakovo]

I did use his actual words. That is the original draft of the second amendment, written by James Madison.
I'm truly sorry for you that reality doesn't match up with your distorted view of it.

I'm also amused by your assumption that I'm somehow against the second amendment because I don't share your delusion, and am opposed to treason.

You know what? So am I. And I want the president tried for it.

You call me delusionary? Sir, how can you construe the bill of rights to be granting the state any power at all? Oh, I know it benefits you to interpret it that way, but I really can't see it. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is clear as day. Sure, argue about comma placement, argue all you want that the "militia" refers to a standing army, because it doesn't. If anyone is having a delusion, it is you. Quit drinking the Obama kool-aid.

You used his actual words? I don't think he had that bad of grammar, so would you mind repeating what you think he said?

Yes, I used his actual words.

Also, cite where I have said that the second amendment doesn't grant citizens the right to bear arms.
Frankly it is rather amusing to see someone in the midst of a paranoid delusion throwing whatever accusations he can at somrone who is, nominally at least, on the same side.
I happen to be a member of the NRA, membership #: 60741893 0546XXX (the last 3 digits eliminated to protect anonymity).

I actually am opposed to the "assault weapons" ban. Unlike the childish Utah Sheriffs, I'm not throwing a hissy-fit over it being proposed. If it passes, it will be challenged in a court of law.

[Wikkiwallana]

Let me guess: you live in the east, and think everyone west of the mississippi can't really be considered a state (except for California). Furthermore, you seem to think we have "old" weapons. Dude, we have an air base, here in Utah, and I am very sure they would be on our side. Montana and Oregon also have similar views as us, and they have their own bases there, as well. Just like most other states.

Let me also point out, for those who seem to think the miltary of the U.S. would actually do such a thing as attack their own citizens, that many members of the military (if not most) have views similar to these sheriffs, and will likely get violent if this happens. Militias throughout history have been ordered to do things similar to this: in Rome it didn't work, in Tiananmen Square - where the troops involved were probably some of the most devoted to their leaders - the first tanks ordered to move in and attack refused, and their commander was jailed.

Finally, Utah is not the only state where people would actually react violently to the actions of the federal government. Utah is not the only place where military and law enforcement would assist the citizens, either. Here is a link to an organization specifically for military and law enforcement officers of this oppinion: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

Last time something like that happened there were plenty of people who fought for the government.

About twice as many as fought against it, in fact.

[Galiantus II]

Your utter lack of self-control and quick judgement is dangerous.

Despite the reflection off your monitor, you're actually not typing to yourself here.

That is not an argument.

[Ceannairceach]

All they are saying is "if you make moves to ban guns, we will stand by the oath we took". They did not threaten war.

They will "stand by their oath" by breaking it and declaring war upon the rightful government of these United States.

[Bottle]

Last time something like that happened there were plenty of people who fought for the government.

About twice as many as fought against it, in fact.

No no, sillies, no PEOPLE fought for the government. Government is a great big blob of mindless drone-soldiers seeking to consume us all. There are no people in it.

[Galiantus II]

You know what? So am I. And I want the president tried for it.

You call me delusionary? Sir, how can you construe the bill of rights to be granting the state any power at all? Oh, I know it benefits you to interpret it that way, but I really can't see it. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is clear as day. Sure, argue about comma placement, argue all you want that the "militia" refers to a standing army, because it doesn't. If anyone is having a delusion, it is you. Quit drinking the Obama kool-aid.

You used his actual words? I don't think he had that bad of grammar, so would you mind repeating what you think he said?

Yes, I used his actual words.

Also, cite where I have said that the second amendment doesn't grant citizens the right to bear arms.
Frankly it is rather amusing to see someone in the midst of a paranoid delusion throwing whatever accusations he can at somrone who is, nominally at least, on the same side.
I happen to be a member of the NRA, membership #: 60741893 0546XXX (the last 3 digits eliminated to protect anonymity).

I actually am opposed to the "assault weapons" ban. Unlike the childish Utah Sheriffs, I'm not throwing a hissy-fit over it being proposed. If it passes, it will be challenged in a court of law.

Okay, perhaps we are on the same side. Perhaps I did entirely miss that.