Utah Sheriffs warn Obama

[AiliailiA]

If there is a civil war, anyone interested in setting up an International Brigade to repel the illegal rebellion?

It depends, do I get to fly an F-15?

Not anywhere near buildings you don't. Maybe off a carrier, because that's funny and doesn't hurt anyone but yourself.

[Khadgar]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

[Dyakovo]

To be honest I didn't even know Utah had a few hundred thousand people. But still, they're using old rifles against tanks designed for a Soviet invasion of Europe and drones and jets and shit, fucking shock and awe or whatever your strategies are

Let me guess: you live in the east, and think everyone west of the mississippi can't really be considered a state (except for California).¹ Furthermore, you seem to think we have "old" weapons. Dude, we have an air base, here in Utah, and I am very sure they would be on our side. ² Montana and Oregon also have similar views as us, and they have their own bases there, as well. Just like most other states.

Let me also point out, for those who seem to think the miltary of the U.S. would actually do such a thing as attack their own citizens, that many members of the military (if not most) have views similar to these sheriffs, and will likely get violent if this happens. Militias throughout history have been ordered to do things similar to this: in Rome it didn't work, in Tiananmen Square - where the troops involved were probably some of the most devoted to their leaders - the first tanks ordered to move in and attack refused, and their commander was jailed.

Finally, Utah is not the only state where people would actually react violently to the actions of the federal government. Utah is not the only place where military and law enforcement would assist the citizens, either. Here is a link to an organization specifically for military and law enforcement officers of this oppinion: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

1: Wrong, he's Canadian.
2: Wrong again.

[Dyakovo]

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

[The Dragonspawn Pits of Avernus]

I love how people randomly rant when they hear about gone right being taken away, and no one knows how he's reforming them, especially since the person who gave him the4 idea was a republican.

[Rereumrari]

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

[Tekania]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

Indeed, it's would be like seeing the POTUS talk about EO's for programs on dental hygiene and exercise..... and then a whole bunch of right wing ninnies sending letters about how they will fight tooth and nail against the POTUS using military forces to barge into houses and confiscate people's jolly ranchers...... 1000 years ago they had a name for people like that.... they were called Village Idiots. Today they are apparent elected as Sheriffs in Utah.

[Wisconsin9]

To be honest I didn't even know Utah had a few hundred thousand people. But still, they're using old rifles against tanks designed for a Soviet invasion of Europe and drones and jets and shit, fucking shock and awe or whatever your strategies are

Let me guess: you live in the east, and think everyone west of the mississippi can't really be considered a state (except for California). Furthermore, you seem to think we have "old" weapons. Dude, we have an air base, here in Utah, and I am very sure they would be on our side. Montana and Oregon also have similar views as us, and they have their own bases there, as well. Just like most other states.

Let me also point out, for those who seem to think the miltary of the U.S. would actually do such a thing as attack their own citizens, that many members of the military (if not most) have views similar to these sheriffs, and will likely get violent if this happens. Militias throughout history have been ordered to do things similar to this: in Rome it didn't work, in Tiananmen Square - where the troops involved were probably some of the most devoted to their leaders - the first tanks ordered to move in and attack refused, and their commander was jailed.

Finally, Utah is not the only state where people would actually react violently to the actions of the federal government. Utah is not the only place where military and law enforcement would assist the citizens, either. Here is a link to an organization specifically for military and law enforcement officers of this oppinion: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/about/

Last time something like that happened there were plenty of people who fought for the government.

[Frisivisia]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.



Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

Indeed, it's would be like seeing the POTUS talk about EO's for programs on dental hygiene and exercise..... and then a whole bunch of right wing ninnies sending letters about how they will fight tooth and nail against the POTUS using military forces to barge into houses and confiscate people's jolly ranchers...... 1000 years ago they had a name for people like that.... they were called Village Idiots. Today they are apparent elected as Sheriffs in Utah.

The thing about sheriffs here in Utah is that you don't need to get elected, you just pay 50 bucks, and boom, you're a sheriff. Unless you're in SLC, in which case you'll need to run.

[Gigaverse]

Gun-obsessed Americans will forever be gun-obsessed. And violent. *shrugs*

[Grenartia]

Personal fan of the AH-64 Apache gunship.

Who isn't?
Having been in the position of being under "attack" by Apache gunships, I can't think of anything more likely to put skidmarks in your drawers than the sight of hostile Apaches popping up from behind the treeline...

What about the Russian Hind? From what I've read, its like a flying tank.

Who isn't?
Having been in the position of being under "attack" by Apache gunships, I can't think of anything more likely to put skidmarks in your drawers than the sight of hostile Apaches popping up from behind the treeline...

Then it's settled. I can be the Air Marshal of the International Brigade, Immoren can be General of the Army and someone can handle the Navy.

We'll call ourselves, Operation Enduring Socialism.

I'll volunteer for that one.

[Dyakovo]

Who isn't?
Having been in the position of being under "attack" by Apache gunships, I can't think of anything more likely to put skidmarks in your drawers than the sight of hostile Apaches popping up from behind the treeline...

What about the Russian Hind? From what I've read, its like a flying tank.

It certainly ranks up there (as does the Ka-50), but the Apache has them beat...

[Grenartia]

What about the Russian Hind? From what I've read, its like a flying tank.

It certainly ranks up there (as does the Ka-50), but the Apache has them beat...

How badly are we talking here? Like M1 Abrams vs Ford Pinto?

[Dyakovo]

No, that's not why the Second Amendment is there. The Second Amendment was put into place as an alternative to having a standing army.

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

James Madison (you know, they guy who actually wrote it) felt differently, as evidenced by the original draft...

The rightof the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiouslyscrupulous ofbearingarms shallbe compelled to render military service in person.

[Bottle]

My little brother used to warn our parents that they better not take away his TV privileges OR ELSE.

He'd also scream that "It's a free country!!!!" when he was told to help wash up after dinner.

It would seem that the solution to the tantrum-throwing behavior shown by some of our state governments and elected officials would be Time Outs and a blanket ban on their consumption of sugary snacks until they can get control and speak like big boys and girls.

[Dyakovo]

It certainly ranks up there (as does the Ka-50), but the Apache has them beat...

How badly are we talking here? Like M1 Abrams vs Ford Pinto?

No, they're real close on the scary scale... More like M1A2 vs. M1A1...

[Tekania]

Thomas Jefferson disagrees.

James Madison (you know, they guy who actually wrote it) felt differently, as evidenced by the original draft...

The rightof the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiouslyscrupulous ofbearingarms shallbe compelled to render military service in person.

Indeed, Madison's make more sense logically at that. An amendment to a government constitution does not protect one from tyranny by that government. If the government is so tyrannical, the amendment is not going to help you, because it would be long gone.

[Immoren]

Who isn't?
Having been in the position of being under "attack" by Apache gunships, I can't think of anything more likely to put skidmarks in your drawers than the sight of hostile Apaches popping up from behind the treeline...

What about the Russian Hind? From what I've read, its like a flying tank.

It and Apache have slightly different role tho.

[Dyakovo]

James Madison (you know, they guy who actually wrote it) felt differently, as evidenced by the original draft...

Indeed, Madison's make more sense logically at that. An amendment to a government constitution does not protect one from tyranny by that government. If the government is so tyrannical, the amendment is not going to help you, because it would be long gone.

Mind you there were a number of framers of the constitution who supported it for the same reason as Jefferson, Patrick Henry comes to kind as a prominent example...

[Dyakovo]

What about the Russian Hind? From what I've read, its like a flying tank.

It and Apache have slightly different role tho.

Only in the sense that the Hind was a troop transport in addition to its role as a gunship.

[Napkiraly]

If there is a civil war, anyone interested in setting up an International Brigade to repel the illegal rebellion?

It depends, do I get to fly an F-15?

Actually you can have Eurofighter, if you wish.

[Galiantus II]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.

Just the checks and balances system at work. Politicians do our will or we shoot them. That's why the Second Amendment is there. Without it, we have no way to check the government.

Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

Oh, and exactly HOW does poisoning the well help your argument?

Conservatives happen to belive history repeats itself - if you give someone power, they tend to abuse it, and hurt others in the process. Currently, Obama seems to think he is the king of the U.S, and that makes us uneasy. The events that have happened in the past (genocide, authoritarianism, revolution, etc.) are all still possible in the U.S, because they have happened, and are happening, elsewhere and in the past. For us to trust a few politicians, half of whom are millionares or billionares, to not repeat human nature - to repeate history, is exceedingly ignorant.

[Dyakovo]

You know, every time I see bullshit like the OP's article, I take conservatives less seriously. I say that because they're acting like petulant children denied a sweet.



Every time I see a comment like this I'm reminded how few Second Amendment supporters have actually read the fucking thing.

Oh, and exactly HOW does poisoning the well help your argument?

Conservatives happen to belive history repeats itself - if you give someone power, they tend to abuse it, and hurt others in the process. Currently, Obama seems to think he is the king of the U.S, and that makes us uneasy. The events that have happened in the past (genocide, authoritarianism, revolution, etc.) are all still possible in the U.S, because they have happened, and are happening, elsewhere and in the past. For us to trust a few politicians, half of whom are millionares or billionares, to not repeat human nature - to repeate history, is exceedingly ignorant.

[Solmakia]

Overall, this is a dumb debate.
The Army won't kill Americans, I'm sorry, but I know a marine, and he would never kill an American.
So, good luck having the Army beat up the Sheiffs
If anything, issuing such an order would provoke another bloody, costly civil war, and put nations like China at the top of the world.
And nobody wants that. I'm chinese, and I know exactly what horrors my people would throw at the world.
So, I think that Gun control should be a state's right.

[Khadgar]

Overall, this is a dumb debate.
The Army won't kill Americans, I'm sorry, but I know a marine, and he would never kill an American.
So, good luck having the Army beat up the Sheiffs
If anything, issuing such an order would provoke another bloody, costly civil war, and put nations like China at the top of the world.
And nobody wants that. I'm chinese, and I know exactly what horrors my people would throw at the world.
So, I think that Gun control should be a state's right.

Kent State Massacre.