Repeal the 17th amendment to the U.S. constitution

[Nihili Veritas]

That should change too.

But will it? No. Why? Because we lack both the ability and willpowered to do so. People have grown so dependent on the system that even though they see their government turning a blind eye to the problems they face, they are too afraid to risk shattering their frail bubbles of false security by attempting change. We will never see a revolution like our colonial ancestors, or russian counter parts ever again.

[Atreath]

Agreed, which is why we should limit political power wherever possible. As it stands today the same politician can get old, fat and senile and still keep their senate seat because of an uninformed majority that usual votes on campaign slogans rather than actually monitoring what the senate does.

As opposed to the same politician getting old, fat and senile because they're a friend of the governor? Big difference.

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

[Grays Harbor]

I shall raise you both....



Matrix Obama

darn. I fold.

[Atreath]

That should change too.

But will it? No. Why? Because we lack both the ability and willpowered to do so. People have grown so dependent on the system that even though they see their government turning a blind eye to the problems they face, they are too afraid to risk shattering their frail bubbles of false security by attempting change. We will never see a revolution like our colonial ancestors, or russian counter parts ever again.

A shame too. At least not politically motivated change. Now change based on complete economic collapse...

[Nihili Veritas]

Agreed, which is why we should limit political power wherever possible. As it stands today the same politician can get old, fat and senile and still keep their senate seat because of an uninformed majority that usual votes on campaign slogans rather than actually monitoring what the senate does.

As opposed to the same politician getting old, fat and senile because they're a friend of the governor? Big difference.

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

*cough* Herb Kohl *cough*

[UNIverseVERSE]

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

I'm sorry, corruption doesn't exist? Why can't the senator just slip a nice high-value contract to the governor's side job in a company under the table, in return for keeping the seat?

[Atreath]

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

I'm sorry, corruption doesn't exist? Why can't the senator just slip a nice high-value contract to the governor's side job in a company under the table, in return for keeping the seat?

Didn't think of that...

then again same thing could be said about the current system on multiple levels.

[Maurepas]

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

I'm sorry, corruption doesn't exist? Why can't the senator just slip a nice high-value contract to the governor's side job in a company under the table, in return for keeping the seat?

Didn't think of that...

then again same thing could be said about the current system on multiple levels.

True, but since it is the same both ways, it begs the question of why bother?

at that point youre just takin the vote away from the people...

[Atreath]

Which brings us back to the options of abolish the senate or institute term limits.

[Mortshnefran]

I don't see the same governor getting elected over and over again. At least not in the states I've lived in. Change the Governor change the senator.

I'm sorry, corruption doesn't exist? Why can't the senator just slip a nice high-value contract to the governor's side job in a company under the table, in return for keeping the seat?

because traditionaly the governor did not appoint the senator the state legislature did.

[Maurepas]

Which brings us back to the options of abolish the senate or institute term limits.

As previously stated, if you abolish the Senate, then you are stripping power away from the Smaller States, all decisions would effectively be made by Texas, California and New York...

Term limits, on the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to...

[Nihili Veritas]

Which brings us back to the options of abolish the senate or institute term limits.

As previously stated, if you abolish the Senate, then you are stripping power away from the Smaller States, all decisions would effectively be made by Texas, California and New York...

Term limits, on the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to...

And who pray-tell is going to vote for term limits? The Senators themselves?

[Tmutarakhan]

As a veteran of Michigan, now in California, I am really no fan of the state governments. State politicians are just the same kind of weenie as the federal politicians, except that they are the less intelligent and competent weenies, else they would have moved on to the bigger stage already.

[Atreath]

Petition the president for an executive order. really the only way to go about it.

[Nihili Veritas]

As a veteran of Michigan

U.P. or L.P. ? Cuz the U.P. gets sssssscreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewed.

[Mortshnefran]

Petition the president for an executive order. really the only way to go about it.

more royal proclamations just what we need. this executive order business has gotten way out of hand.

[Atreath]

Petition the president for an executive order. really the only way to go about it.

more royal proclamations just what we need. this executive order business has gotten way out of hand.

If you have a better Idea I'm all ears.

[Maurepas]

Which brings us back to the options of abolish the senate or institute term limits.

As previously stated, if you abolish the Senate, then you are stripping power away from the Smaller States, all decisions would effectively be made by Texas, California and New York...

Term limits, on the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily be opposed to...

And who pray-tell is going to vote for term limits? The Senators themselves?

Presumably it would have to be done through an Amendment, so the voting would be done by State Legislatures, lol...

[Nihili Veritas]

If you have a better Idea I'm all ears.

Once Herb Kohl has finally died, re-animate his corpse to infiltrate the senate.

[Mortshnefran]

Petition the president for an executive order. really the only way to go about it.

more royal proclamations just what we need. this executive order business has gotten way out of hand.

If you have a better Idea I'm all ears.

to institute term limits?
i couldn't care less how long someone serves.
but to legally do it you'd have to pass an amendment.
the president doesn't or shouldn't have that authority

[Free Soviets]

The 17th amendment provided for the direct election of U.S. senators. The constitution as originally written created the bicameral legislature for a reason. the house was to represent the voice of the people, and the senate to represent the states. By removing the voice of the state governments from the federal government, it has decreased the power of the state and increased the power of the fed. I say repeal the 17th amendment and return a much needed check on the unquestioned authority of federal government.

i'm game, as long as we also include in that repeal amendment a clause instituting at least 101 new 'national senators' to be chosen by national proportional representation vote and on a 4 year term with elections timed to coincide with presidential elections.

[Tmutarakhan]

As a veteran of Michigan

U.P. or L.P. ? Cuz the U.P. gets sssssscreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewed.

Deeeetroit, which is self-screwing.
Anyhow, we have "terms limit" in Michigan; this is what happens: you get the same crop of weenies, except now you have totally inexperienced weenies, and not only do they screw things up worse, but the lobbyists who stay in the capital year in and year out can totally flim-flam them, don't even have to bother bribing them.

[Potlimitomaha]

I would have to say no to this idea because prior to this amendment Senators tended to be political hacks who were appointed by State legislators for overtly political reasons and was used, in many cases, as a reward system for loyal party performance or for ponying up large campaign donations to the party, much like most ambassadorships have nearly always been.

I honestly do not see how reverting to a system of back-room deal making could benefit anybody except those more interested in advancing dogmatic partisan politics.

This.

[Trotskylvania]

Actually, this would accomplish pretty much the opposite of what the OP intends. Senators, as political appointees would be strict party apparatchiks, with no popular legitimacy. It would quite handily destroy the authority of the senate and senators, and make them compliant party creatures.

[Eirenia]

I would have to say no to this idea because prior to this amendment Senators tended to be political hacks who were appointed by State legislators for overtly political reasons and was used, in many cases, as a reward system for loyal party performance or for ponying up large campaign donations to the party, much like most ambassadorships have nearly always been.

I honestly do not see how reverting to a system of back-room deal making could benefit anybody except those more interested in advancing dogmatic partisan politics.

This.

Stop necroing three-year-old threads to agree with people who aren't at all involved in this conversation. There's absolutely no reason to do this.